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#12 Pick: Who do you think it'll be? Who do you want it to be?


MrOaktown_56

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12 hours ago, big_palooka said:

He's a leaner, small framed version of Cooper. Similar rout running prowess, prone to drops.

My biggest issue is his physicality and contested catch ability which why I rank Lamb higher 

I actually think he plays faster, despite the testing. He also is more explosive IMO in and out of his breaks. I've never seen a player cut the way Jeudy does. If I tried some of those cuts at half speed, I think my knee would snap in half.

But I agree you need to be physical in the NFL. Players who physically dominate and can win even when they don't "win" (contested catches) are at a premium, especially in the RZ where we struggled.

Lamb has shades of Davante Adams in terms of the way he slithers, but reminds me of Hopkins with the ball in the air, and is better at YAC than both. I'm not saying he's going to be a top 5 receiver, but stylistically he overlaps with a lot of the go to guys right now.

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13 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I actually think he plays faster, despite the testing. He also is more explosive IMO in and out of his breaks. I've never seen a player cut the way Jeudy does. If I tried some of those cuts at half speed, I think my knee would snap in half

lol... same. But honestly, the route running thing is so overplayed. Being an elite route runner means what? The great WR in this game are adequate route runners mostly. 

The argument for Juedy always comes down to "he's an elite route runner". That is good attribute, but doesn't move the needle for me as a franchise type WR....

13 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

But I agree you need to be physical in the NFL. Players who physically dominate and can win even when they don't "win" (contested catches) are at a premium, especially in the RZ where we struggled.

Which is why THIS is important. The top NFL WRs are adequate route runners, but win with physicality, body control at the catch point and great hands when contested. Then you get the Thomas, Hopkins, Adams types who are hard to bring down after the catch. Even Chad Johnson (an elite route runner) won by being physical. He could out muscle anyone for the ball.

13 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Lamb has shades of Davante Adams in terms of the way he slithers, but reminds me of Hopkins with the ball in the air, and is better at YAC than both. I'm not saying he's going to be a top 5 receiver, but stylistically he overlaps with a lot of the go to guys right now.

Same. I think Lamb checks all the boxes as a #1 WR. Physical, adequate route runner, great hands, wins contested catches, hard to bring down with make you miss ability as a runner. 

He's WR1 in this class for, never changed that stance. He has what the other guys don't.

I don't say this to downplay Jeudy who is a fine WR and I'd be happy to have him, but Lamb is simply in another class for me. I see Jeudy as a high end #2 top 15-20 WR. Lamb has potential to be a top 5-10 with a low floor IMO.

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3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

I don't say this to downplay Jeudy who is a fine WR and I'd be happy to have him, but Lamb is simply in another class for me. I see Jeudy as a high end #2 top 15-20 WR. Lamb has potential to be a top 5-10 with a low floor IMO.

I'd compare Lamb to Hopkins, Jeudy to Cooper, Ruggs to Cooks. 

If Lamb reaches his peak he'll be like a 100 receptions, 1450 yards, 12 TD type of player

If Jeudy reaches his peak he'll be like an 80 receptions, 1150 yards, 8 TD type of player

If Ruggs reaches his peak 65 receptions, 1,100 yards, 7 TD type of player

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On 4/8/2020 at 1:25 PM, agarcia34 said:

1.Who do you think the Raiders select based on who is available? Henry Ruggs III

2.Who do you want to select at 12, (try to be realistic, e.g. not Chase Young). Henry Ruggs III

 

You can teach Ruggs anything you want as a WR. You can teach him to run a route in which he is already does a good job. You can teach him better release off the LOS and so on and so on. What you cannot teach is 4.27 speed. You can't teach CeeDee how to run a 4.27 you can't teach Jeudy how to run a 4.27. 

By stepping on that field Ruggs makes everyone better. He doesn't need to do anything else besides be on that field and he makes Waller better he makes Renfrow better he makes Williams better. Just the speed he offers and the attention he will get. 

I'll be happy with CeeDee but my biggest issue with him is separation and route running and to be honest, he plays like he small WR. For a guy that doesn't get separation from his routes he's gonna have to learn how to be physical. He needs to watch a lot of Michael Thomas tape.

Jeudy I would be happy with cause excellent route runner has good enough speed to beat you deep and will be an impact player from day 1.

Ruggs just offers something that the Raiders don't have and what the NFL trending too.  

I don't know if it will be the pick, but I like Ruggs III. His speed changes defenses - he is a weapon they HAVE to honor and fits that flanker mold that we need. I love Ceedee & Jeudy as prospects as well, but Ruggs would be my choice.

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On 4/10/2020 at 11:48 AM, NYRaider said:

I'd compare Lamb to Hopkins, Jeudy to Cooper, Ruggs to Cooks. 

If Lamb reaches his peak he'll be like a 100 receptions, 1450 yards, 12 TD type of player

If Jeudy reaches his peak he'll be like an 80 receptions, 1150 yards, 8 TD type of player

If Ruggs reaches his peak 65 receptions, 1,100 yards, 7 TD type of player

And if all this is true I would still take Ruggs. Because it is not only about his production. It is how he effects the defense to open up and make Jacobs, Williams and ren’s job easier. 😎

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Lamb vs. Jeudy for me, and I keep flopping back n forth.  I'm no expert so I'll leave that the experts.

I just hope they take a player that would minimize the risk of burning a #12 pick...If thats Lamb, or Jeudy?   I'm good with it.

Welcome to the team

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both receivers will probably produce enough to be solid "value" at pick 12 (the truth is even if its coopers type of production, its 8 picks lower than coop.lol) it just boils down to preference or beliefs. I prefer physical over finesse almost all the time. there are exceptions (usually very elite exceptions.lol ie. sanders , gretzsky etc.) however we`re not talking transcendant talents here. so.....again , lamb for me plz. btw, I definitely believe the story about gruden looking for a "z" receiver to be complete smokescreen...c`mon man , who comes out 2 wks before the draft and says " heres my cards boys! read em and weep!" grudock knows media...grudock plays media....lmfao!

Edited by Devilshark69
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C.J. Henderson if he makes it past JAX he should be the pick. His coverage is undeniable tackling is a bit overblown , and with our secondary full of good tacklers you can afford to have a guy who's so so  at tackling but A+ coverage. He will also make hustle play's with his speed.

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1 hour ago, raidr4life said:

tackling is a bit overblown

It only is, if you want to sell yourself on him. Otherwise, it's a glaring issue and has been since August:

And THAT is the kick... effort. He showed a complete lack of effort and interest in tackling all season.

That said, his skill set is undeniable as a pressman cover corner. But he has got to be willing to stick his nose in there and give effort. It's the same reason Greedy Williams fell to round 2 last year. Great skills and feet, just didn't play physical or tackle well. Raider passed him in favor of Mullen. 

1 hour ago, raidr4life said:

with our secondary full of good tacklers you can afford to have a guy who's so so  at tackling but A+ coverage. He will also make hustle play's with his speed.

This is a weak argument to. If he doesn't fit the physical measure of the culture you're trying to build, it's okay to have a guy who won't give 100% effort in the run game? Okay to have a guy throws lazy shoulders into running backs? I don't buy that at all. 

Coverage is great. But at 12 overall... I want the whole package personally. 

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4 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

It only is, if you want to sell yourself on him. Otherwise, it's a glaring issue and has been since August:

And THAT is the kick... effort. He showed a complete lack of effort and interest in tackling all season.

That said, his skill set is undeniable as a pressman cover corner. But he has got to be willing to stick his nose in there and give effort. It's the same reason Greedy Williams fell to round 2 last year. Great skills and feet, just didn't play physical or tackle well. Raider passed him in favor of Mullen. 

This is a weak argument to. If he doesn't fit the physical measure of the culture you're trying to build, it's okay to have a guy who won't give 100% effort in the run game? Okay to have a guy throws lazy shoulders into running backs? I don't buy that at all. 

Coverage is great. But at 12 overall... I want the whole package personally. 

See my post in the draft thread rn, I covered this. It's actually even worse than the bolded.

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