Raiders Offense Thread 2.0:

[MrOaktown_56]

6 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I think you hit on an idea no ones mentioned yet: we should be seeing more shotgun/spread concepts this year.  
I think that is why we’re have brought in so many WRs... if we’re going to go 4 wide we needed to expand our depth and specifically bring in guys who can plan in the slot with speed... like Agholor, Ruggs, Bowden... as well as have outside receivers like Edwards and Williams.

my biggest concern is Carr potentially not utilizing the deep ball enough due to his timidness to go deep... however one must realize we didn’t have many blazing fast WRs in the past. We shall see what happens, I’m choosing to stay optimistic he will go deep when the opportunity presents itself.

on a side note, I’d really like to see Edwards also see time in the slot on occasion in the “big slot WR” role that Michael Thomas has perfected... he’s got such a large catch radius and great frame that he could box out smaller CBs on short, possession Routes while also being a nice target down the seem, stretching the defense.  

Im digging the WR core a lot... it’s diverse and brings speed and explosiveness for the first time in years.  

I’d also like to see Ruggs sweep and end arounds.  And those plays where he goes in motion and runs a wide sweep and the QB throws it to him just behind the line of scrimmage and he’s already for a amount of steam going forward when he catches it... idk what you call that.

I think Bowden can add the nice element of shifting between WR and RB presnap and we can isolate him on LBs, which is a big advantage.

I’ll stop being but simply add I’m sure Grudens going to be putting in 100s of hours designing new plays for our team... we should keep the conservative Ball control WCO as our base but also have packages where we spread the defense and threaten deep.

I was watching a lot of all 22 and I just didn't see a lot of separation from our receivers, especially vertically. Agree with the 2nd bolded.

If I had to guess, most of ruggs impact will come from slants, crossers, deep in breaking routes like deep crossers, posts, etc. I think he can find holes in zones and then shred teams and angles with his speed. 

I think within his first 3 years, you'll see more nuance at the top of routes, double moves, etc. He's still developing and needs his strengths maximized while he does. 

I keep forgetting he's good at contested catches because he's kinda slight. He can get bigger for sure, as long as he doesn't lose that speed.

[Geezy]

I wonder if Gruden has slept since the draft. I know that mind is going crazy with all the toys he has to work with now. I mean, Agholor would have been our #1 some weeks last year and hell be fighting for a roster spot this season.

at our core, we’re a running team. With our hogs upfront and one of the best young RBs in the league, we can ground and pound with the best of them. 
 

In the pass game, Waller is a top 5 TE imo and will lead the team in targets. The thing is now Ruggs, Edwards, Renfrow and evening Agholor and Bowden will be getting a ton of 1 on 1s vs favorable match ups. All 5 of those guys can catch and run. This is as much talent as we’ve had in a very long time.

 

CANT WAIT!!!

 

[MrOaktown_56]

11 minutes ago, Geezy said:

I wonder if Gruden has slept since the draft. I know that mind is going crazy with all the toys he has to work with now. I mean, Agholor would have been our #1 some weeks last year and hell be fighting for a roster spot this season.

at our core, we’re a running team. With our hogs upfront and one of the best young RBs in the league, we can ground and pound with the best of them. 
 

In the pass game, Waller is a top 5 TE imo and will lead the team in targets. The thing is now Ruggs, Edwards, Renfrow and evening Agholor and Bowden will be getting a ton of 1 on 1s vs favorable match ups. All 5 of those guys can catch and run. This is as much talent as we’ve had in a very long time.

 

CANT WAIT!!!

 

I'm hoping the offense is very "well run" and efficient. We run patterns of plays and then break those tendencies, like what Reid does well. And drastically vary personnel/formations across drives.

I also want Carr to be able to audible extensively this year.

[jimkelly02]

51 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I was watching a lot of all 22 and I just didn't see a lot of separation from our receivers, especially vertically. Agree with the 2nd bolded.

If I had to guess, most of ruggs impact will come from slants, crossers, deep in breaking routes like deep crossers, posts, etc. I think he can find holes in zones and then shred teams and angles with his speed. 

I think within his first 3 years, you'll see more nuance at the top of routes, double moves, etc. He's still developing and needs his strengths maximized while he does. 

I keep forgetting he's good at contested catches because he's kinda slight. He can get bigger for sure, as long as he doesn't lose that speed.

He doesn’t look like he’d be a good contested catch guy but he’s very impressive at stabbing the ball with outstretched hands

Thats what makes Renfrow such a clutch catcher, too.

i also agree about Ruggs... it’s not gonna be all go routes, in fact I think it’s the intermediate routes that make the most impact.  There will be the manufactured short throws of course. But we should see a compact but effective route tree initially. We want to hit him in between zones on the run so he can hit that next gear after a few steps and just ERASE angles defenders have.  I’d even add Deep Posts And Skinny Posts as routes we’ll see often especially when we’re on either side of midfield. 
remember that relatively long ball Williams caught on the play action pass, 3rd&1 early in 2nd Q week 2 Vs KC?  That’s exactly what I wanna see Ruggs running.... try and pull the FS in with play action and let Ruggs just run down a lofted bomb.  you definitely only get a few of those chances a year, but their game changers quite often.

the play Im referring to is at like :15 secs

[MrOaktown_56]

The comparisons to Denver's offense are interesting. At it's core though,  I trust the run game, OL, and our TE group significantly more than Denver's. While our WR group is in some ways "unproven" and may not be as talented as Denver's, I think it has diversity where it matters. Renfrow is a machine in the slot. Tyrell is a very underrated 2 when healthy, and Ruggs has X-factor type of speed that can stretch a team both vertically and horizontally to go with his contested catch ability. Plus I feel like our WR depth in Edwards and Agholor (a very solid west coast WR coming off a down year) is superior as well.

Plus I trust DC to "conduct" an expanded, more aggressive Gruden offense.

Thoughts?

[NJ Raider]

I agree with everything except the last part. I'm hoping Carr balls out this year and puts his money where his mouth is, but I'm highly skeptical. 

I do feel like Locke is getting a lot of hype for playing well against mostly poor past defenses. Everyone is hyping up Denver's offense more than ours and I think they're at least comparable. I do agree that our line is not being factored in.

Is anyone surprised that Fangio didn't get many defensive pieces in FA/the draft? Maybe he thinks his system is that good? Could just be that elway is calling all the shots. They def have some weakpoints at cb and lb which certainly works to our advantage.

[agarcia34]

Denver's offense has a chance to be really exciting Sutton is really good. He took that huge step forward in his second year and should only expect him to get better. Fant started out slow, but he finished the year strong. They add Jeudy and Hamler who both can play in the slot. With Denver, it's about Lock and if the OL can hold up. 

I do expect Tyrell to have a big year. The pressure is on him. The team has drafted his replacement. Ruggs playing across from him should really help him out with coverage he will see.I liked him when he was playing for the Chargers so I really do want him to succeed and give the Raiders a reason to keep him. 

In that video posted above at 1:17 was one of my favorite play calls for the past season that Gruden called. Great play design Waller running a drag with Carr rolling out. Tyrell running a drag then cutting the route up the field. With a little pick from Waller. Those are the type of play designs that I want to see more from Gruden

[jimkelly02]

1 hour ago, agarcia34 said:

Denver's offense has a chance to be really exciting Sutton is really good. He took that huge step forward in his second year and should only expect him to get better. Fant started out slow, but he finished the year strong. They add Jeudy and Hamler who both can play in the slot. With Denver, it's about Lock and if the OL can hold up. 

I do expect Tyrell to have a big year. The pressure is on him. The team has drafted his replacement. Ruggs playing across from him should really help him out with coverage he will see.I liked him when he was playing for the Chargers so I really do want him to succeed and give the Raiders a reason to keep him. 

In that video posted above at 1:17 was one of my favorite play calls for the past season that Gruden called. Great play design Waller running a drag with Carr rolling out. Tyrell running a drag then cutting the route up the field. With a little pick from Waller. Those are the type of play designs that I want to see more from Gruden

Do you have any idea how amazing it will feel like if OUR TEs are destroying Denver’s LB/DBs and their TEs are being held relatively contained? 
I feel like their DL/OLBs are due for a bounce back year though.  They added Jurrell Casey, whose probably just outside his prime but still very good; Harris is playing good and looking to multi year deal after striking out this year; they have good depth with DeMarcus Walker, Dre’Mont Jones, Christian Covington, and 3rd round (even though that was a major reach) McTelvin Agim.  I don’t think it’s a spectacular front 3 but it’s solid.  It’ll be interesting to see how they do at ILB with Josey Jewel, Alexander Johnson, and Todd Davis.  There DBs are solid but unspectacular (aside from Justin Simmons) too.  We should be able to exploit them with 3-4 WR set and with our TEs.

[G]

I like adding Ruggs speed to Edwards physical play. Should be a good duo for years. Renfrow in the slot and we’re younger and will improve allowing us to move on if/when vets don’t perform to their contracts.

[NYRaider]

On 5/2/2020 at 12:09 AM, MrOaktown_56 said:

The comparisons to Denver's offense are interesting. At it's core though,  I trust the run game, OL, and our TE group significantly more than Denver's. While our WR group is in some ways "unproven" and may not be as talented as Denver's, I think it has diversity where it matters. Renfrow is a machine in the slot. Tyrell is a very underrated 2 when healthy, and Ruggs has X-factor type of speed that can stretch a team both vertically and horizontally to go with his contested catch ability. Plus I feel like our WR depth in Edwards and Agholor (a very solid west coast WR coming off a down year) is superior as well.

Plus I trust DC to "conduct" an expanded, more aggressive Gruden offense.

Thoughts?

I think it's hard to say right now. 

Running game: I might give Denver a slight advantage here because they have two young RB's that have produced pretty consistently. (Linday + Gordon) 

TE group: I'd definitely give us the advantage here but Noah Fant flashed as a rookie and could be an upper echelon player this season. 

Offensive line: I'd definitely give us the advantage here as well but getting James back at RT should help them. 

WR group: This one is tough but I'd probably give Denver a slight advantage here. Sutton is a stud and Jeudy is a more complete WR than Ruggs as of now, IMO. 

[NYRaider]

On 5/2/2020 at 8:25 AM, agarcia34 said:

Denver's offense has a chance to be really exciting Sutton is really good. He took that huge step forward in his second year and should only expect him to get better. Fant started out slow, but he finished the year strong. They add Jeudy and Hamler who both can play in the slot. With Denver, it's about Lock and if the OL can hold up. 

Denver's offense definitely has some question marks but they have the potential to be very good. Lock played well in limited action last year, they have arguably the best 1/2 punch at RB in the league with Gordon/Lindsay, Sutton took a huge step last year, Fant looked like he could be one of the best receiving TE's in the league, Jeudy has the ability to be a 1,000+ yard guy as a rookie, and Hamler like Ruggs will keep defenses honest with his speed. 

[MrOaktown_56]

44 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I think it's hard to say right now. 

Running game: I might give Denver a slight advantage here because they have two young RB's that have produced pretty consistently. (Linday + Gordon) 

TE group: I'd definitely give us the advantage here but Noah Fant flashed as a rookie and could be an upper echelon player this season. 

Offensive line: I'd definitely give us the advantage here as well but getting James back at RT should help them. 

WR group: This one is tough but I'd probably give Denver a slight advantage here. Sutton is a stud and Jeudy is a more complete WR than Ruggs as of now, IMO. 

If Jacobs stays healthy, which I think he will, I trust his contributions at RB more than gordon and lindsay. I'd take Jacobs rookie year in 13 games over any season by either gordon or lindsay.

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

If Jacobs stays healthy, which I think he will, I trust his contributions at RB more than gordon and lindsay. I'd take Jacobs rookie year in 13 games over any season by either gordon or lindsay.

I'd certainly take Jacobs over either Lindsay or Gordon individually. But as a group I'd take Lindsay/Gordon/Freeman over Jacobs/Richard/Bowden. Lindsay and Gordon have both been 1,000+ yard rushers and all 3 of their backs are good receivers out of the backfield, I think the 3 of them combined for like 120 receptions last season. 

[Turnobili]

Gordon's 2018 was very impressive, and their depth in Lindsay trumps what we have in Bowden/Richard. Gordon has durability concerns but so does Jacobs. I don't have an issue giving Denver a slight edge until such time that Jacobs shows more work in the pass game (his college tape shows he should be more involved) and Bowden can show he's a legitimate backup and not just some gadget gimmick.

I don't think the TE comparisons are close at all. Waller is significantly better than Fant, and I wouldn't trade Moreau for anybody else they have.

Denver at this point projects to have the better WR group, but that's in part because Tyrell Williams is being considered a JAG at this point, and the burden is on him to prove that he still has some juice. He wasn't supposed to just be a big bodied contested catch guy. He has 4.4 wheels and was a deep threat for the Chargers. We need him to be multidimensional with us.

I don't think the OL difference is huge, but we have a slight edge. Depends on whether Kolton continues to improve

Edited May 5, 2020 by Turnobili

[NYRaider]

6 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

Gordon's 2018 was very impressive, and their depth in Lindsay trumps what we have in Bowden/Richard. Gordon has durability concerns but so does Jacobs. I don't have an issue giving Denver a slight edge until at this time. 

I don't think the TE comparisons are close at all. Waller is significantly better than Fant, and I wouldn't trade Moreau for anybody else they have.

Denver at this point projects to have the better WR group, but that's in part because Tyrell Williams is being considered a JAG at this point, and the burden is on him to prove that he still has some juice. He wasn't supposed to just be a big bodied contested catch guy. He has 4.4 wheels and was a deep threat for the Chargers. We need him to be multidimensional with us.

Gordon has gone over 1,350 total yards and 12+ TD in 3 of the last 4 seasons. While Lindsay has rushed for 1,000+ yards and 7 TD's in his two NFL seasons. Plus Freeman is a pretty solid RB3 as a big back in short yardage situations that can also catch the ball out of the backfield. 

TE isn't close right now but Fant came on strong as the season went on and has the potential to be one of the most dynamic players at the position. 

Denver's projection is certainly slightly better but Jeudy could struggle and I don't think Hamler has a huge impact as a rookie. But if everything pans out for them they could and likely will have 2 1,000+ yard WR's in Jeudy/Sutton next year. 

Edited May 5, 2020 by NYRaider