Raiders Offense Thread 2.0:

[agarcia34]

Those Carr season prop stats and how low they suggest that Westgate casino and the majority of the oddsmakers don't believe he will start all 16 games. When I went up to Vegas a couple of weeks ago I did place a bet with over on both Carr and Jacobs props. Just need Carr to start at least 13-14 games and for Jacobs to not get hurt. A risk that I am willing to take with both.

[jimkelly02]

On 5/18/2020 at 6:25 AM, Rolni said:

Williams and Ruggs are 2 guys, who can really get down, so the opposing Ss will have to really stay deep IMO, that will really open it up for Waller, Moreau, Renfrow, Bowden, Richard, JJ...

That’s a very good and not mentioned point around here.  Williams is a very good deep threat too!  The guy’s career yards per catch is 16.1!  Yes we’re all excited for the elite speed of Ruggs but we have 2 WRs who can keep Safeties deep.  Defenses have to respect both their deep speed and that opens up both the running game (having a plus box is a dramatic benefit for a defense versus the run) and open up the short passing game for our TEs and slot WRs.

 

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said:

On 18/05/2020 at 11:25 AM, Rolni said:

Williams and Ruggs are 2 guys, who can really get down, so the opposing Ss will have to really stay deep IMO, that will really open it up for Waller, Moreau, Renfrow, Bowden, Richard, JJ...

That’s a very good and not mentioned point around here.  Williams is a very good deep threat too!  The guy’s career yards per catch is 16.1!  Yes we’re all excited for the elite speed of Ruggs but we have 2 WRs who can keep Safeties deep.  Defenses have to respect both their deep speed and that opens up both the running game (having a plus box is a dramatic benefit for a defense versus the run) and open up the short passing game for our TEs and slot WRs.

Imagine if we had Gafford in aswell and sent him deep, Ruggs and Gafford can both really fly and Willams and Waller are no slouches, we could open up some big opportunities or play a huge decoy for underneath.

I wanted Lamb in the draft but I do like the complimentary nature if our options, just feel we need a Tyrone Wheatley type in there at RB.

[jimkelly02]

2 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Imagine if we had Gafford in aswell and sent him deep, Ruggs and Gafford can both really fly and Willams and Waller are no slouches, we could open up some big opportunities or play a huge decoy for underneath.

I wanted Lamb in the draft but I do like the complimentary nature if our options, just feel we need a Tyrone Wheatley type in there at RB.

Hopefully Gafford plays well enough to at least push for a roster spot but it’ll be hard.  

Ive been saying we need a Wheatley back for months even before the draft.  It doesn’t even have to be a big bruiser like Wheatley was, as those type of RBs are becoming rarer every year.  It just needs to be a RB with a little power.

 Adding a RB who can keep Jacobs carries to a reasonable level with prolong his career.  I don’t wanna see him be a 1 contract player and be run into the ground.  We should be proactive.

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchartpos/RB

There are a ton of teams who are 4 NFL RBs deep and I’m guessing a few of them only keep 3 and cut 1.
 

Id give a 6/7th to GB for Jamaal Williams, a 4/5 to NE for Damien Harris,

Other teams who have 4 RBs+ deep:

NE- Michel, J.White, D.Harris, B.Bolden, R.Burkhead

Balt- Ingram, Dobbins, Gus Edwards, Justice Hill

KC- CHE, D.Williams, D.Thompson, D.Williams, E.McGuire, D.Washington

Wash- Peterson, Guice, A.Gibson, B.Hall, Peyton Barber

Det- K.Johnson, Swift, B.Scarbourgh, T.Johnson (‘19 6th), J.Huntley (‘20 65th)

GB- A.Jones, AJ Dillon, J.Williams, D.Williams (‘19 6th)

Id love to try and add Kareem Hunt next offseason as he’ll be a UFA.

 

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said:

Hopefully Gafford plays well enough to at least push for a roster spot but it’ll be hard.  

Ive been saying we need a Wheatley back for months even before the draft.  It doesn’t even have to be a big bruiser like Wheatley was, as those type of RBs are becoming rarer every year.  It just needs to be a RB with a little power.

 Adding a RB who can keep Jacobs carries to a reasonable level with prolong his career.  I don’t wanna see him be a 1 contract player and be run into the ground.  We should be proactive.

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchartpos/RB

There are a ton of teams who are 4 NFL RBs deep and I’m guessing a few of them only keep 3 and cut 1.
 

Id give a 6/7th to GB for Jamaal Williams, a 4/5 to NE for Damien Harris,

Other teams who have 4 RBs+ deep:

NE- Michel, J.White, D.Harris, B.Bolden, R.Burkhead

Balt- Ingram, Dobbins, Gus Edwards, Justice Hill

KC- CHE, D.Williams, D.Thompson, D.Williams, E.McGuire, D.Washington

Wash- Peterson, Guice, A.Gibson, B.Hall, Peyton Barber

Det- K.Johnson, Swift, B.Scarbourgh, T.Johnson (‘19 6th), J.Huntley (‘20 65th)

GB- A.Jones, AJ Dillon, J.Williams, D.Williams (‘19 6th)

Id love to try and add Kareem Hunt next offseason as he’ll be a UFA.

 

Some decent options there, Jamal Williams probably being my favourite. Whilst I think Hunt is a very good back I simply wouldn't want him on the team. Can understand if others will overlook his off field stuff but I cant personally.

[jimkelly02]

3 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Some decent options there, Jamal Williams probably being my favourite. Whilst I think Hunt is a very good back I simply wouldn't want him on the team. Can understand if others will overlook his off field stuff but I cant personally.

Maybe I’m remembering the situation wrong but I thought the female started it and kicked Hunt first.... the way I see it if a female is the first to get physical they have zero right to cry when they get hit back.  
That women was asking for way more then she got....they lied about their age to get into the hotel to drink and party and upon finding out they were under 21 Hunt did the right thing and demanded they immediately leave... the ultra entitled, bossy, victim status seeking women refused to leave and started crying like a baby about nonsense..... not to mention she repeatedly called him and others the N-word.... now I’m as Pro-White as it gets but if you say that don’t cry when someone simply love taps ya I’m response to that and striking them first.  Words aren’t assault but the combination of them means if you get hit back it’s deserved

 but he should have been smart enough to turn other cheek.

But jamaal is by far my favorite possible option listed.  I think he’s the ideal back for us given his ability to price ratio.

Edited July 6, 2020 by jimkelly02

[Darbsk]

I'm not a huge fan of PFF but looks like they are not that impressed with our revamped WR core :

 https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2020/7/15/21326486/raiders-news-pro-football-focus-raiders-2020-wide-receiver-ranking-nfl

Also of note, they ranked our unit #31 last season for what its worth. Personally, I think we should see big improvement if our health can be relied upon. I'm not expecting miracles but we should be in the top half of the league without major mishaps.

[G]

In 2020 I don’t think we have a #1 WR. Ruggs and Edwards I’m giving 1500 yards combined as they learn the NFL game. By 2022 they are both #1’s and the (who do you pay and do we trade while hot conversions come into play. With QB contracts hitting another level it might be better to keep both WR’s a get a cheap/rookie QB.

Williams should lead the unit but will probably be let go 2021 if the rookies progress as expected. Edwards in his second season would be getting all the looks Williams gets this year.

Renfrow has chemistry with Carr and experience of getting his when He has talent all around him. Clemson taught him some valuable lessons that will create a good career. 

Bowden I expect to see some action as he’s a weapon and can create mismatches coming out in motion.

Our other vets should make the team but not beyond this season. We’re going to pound the rock, use multiple TE packages and the WR’s job this season is to make big plays when called upon. We have the potential for a very exciting offense but we saw last year that we can take over a game with a healthy Jacobs. So I expect ball control with an explosive play. I expect most of us yelling at Gruden/Carr to open it up as we see what we can do but that ground and pound keeps the defense fresh and limits mistakes. If it wins games we’ll be good and just know we’re the ones throttled back.

[Bitty 2.0]

4 hours ago, Darbsk said:

I'm not a huge fan of PFF but looks like they are not that impressed with our revamped WR core :

 https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2020/7/15/21326486/raiders-news-pro-football-focus-raiders-2020-wide-receiver-ranking-nfl

Also of note, they ranked our unit #31 last season for what its worth. Personally, I think we should see big improvement if our health can be relied upon. I'm not expecting miracles but we should be in the top half of the league without major mishaps.

The WRs are unproven so there's no fault on pff for grading them low but I also think we have the best TEs in the league and a strong running game that should help the  WRs a lot.

[jimkelly02]

16 hours ago, G said:

In 2020 I don’t think we have a #1 WR. Ruggs and Edwards I’m giving 1500 yards combined as they learn the NFL game. By 2022 they are both #1’s and the (who do you pay and do we trade while hot conversions come into play. With QB contracts hitting another level it might be better to keep both WR’s a get a cheap/rookie QB.

Williams should lead the unit but will probably be let go 2021 if the rookies progress as expected. Edwards in his second season would be getting all the looks Williams gets this year.

Renfrow has chemistry with Carr and experience of getting his when He has talent all around him. Clemson taught him some valuable lessons that will create a good career. 

Bowden I expect to see some action as he’s a weapon and can create mismatches coming out in motion.

Our other vets should make the team but not beyond this season. We’re going to pound the rock, use multiple TE packages and the WR’s job this season is to make big plays when called upon. We have the potential for a very exciting offense but we saw last year that we can take over a game with a healthy Jacobs. So I expect ball control with an explosive play. I expect most of us yelling at Gruden/Carr to open it up as we see what we can do but that ground and pound keeps the defense fresh and limits mistakes. If it wins games we’ll be good and just know we’re the ones throttled back.

I agree with everything You said but 1500 yards for Ruggs and Edwards just seems very high to me.  And I say that having very high hopes for them.  It’s just that historically rookie WRs don’t often put up that many yards.  
 

I think we’d be lucky to get 1000 yards out of Ruggs.  Terry McLaurin, just for comparison sakes, had 93 targets with 58 catches (62.4%) for 919yds (15.8yds/Rec) in 14 games/14 starts.  Extrapolated out that’s 106tgt, 66 catches, 1042yds. That’s a best case scenario for Ruggs.  If I had to guess it’ll turn out to be something like around 90 targets, 55 catches, 925-950yds.  
I just don’t see the offense having THAT many targets for Ruggs to substantiate much more than that.  
 

Edwards isn’t going to get 500-600 yds.  Again just not enough targets.... he’s not likely to get much playing time until the second half of the season.  Plus, we spread the ball out a lot in this offense.  TEs and RBs get a ton of targets.... not to mention we have a deep receiving core.  I think after Ruggs, Williams, and Renfrow the other guys (Zay Jones, Agholor, Edwards) will all be used in specific packages and have their own niche within the offense.  If Edwards gets 400 yards it’ll be a very good season for him.

So I don’t disagree with what you said.... it’s an exciting time of year, we have some exciting young players, there’s finally excitement at the WR position..... but I think your just over estimating what we should expect out of the two rookie WRs.  That said, Ruggs could get 800 yards and it could be a really good season that really has us happy to have drafted him.  The same for Edwards and 300-400 yds.  The stats don’t accurately tell the tale of progress for rookie WRs.... it’ll be about how they play the second half the season. Look at Crosby and to a lesser extent Ferrell... they came on strong in the second half the season.

[G]

On 7/17/2020 at 12:01 AM, jimkelly02 said:

I think we’d be lucky to get 1000 yards out of Ruggs. .  
Edwards isn’t going to get 500-600 yds.    If Edwards gets 400 yards it’ll be a very good season for him.

 

Agreed that rookies don't ball out hard their rookie season. 700-800 yards each is what I expect and I think they get more plays from Gruden than established vets. Ruggs explosiveness and first WR drafted status will make Gruden/Mayock/Davis want to feature him. Don't want to overuse him as a normal season is long. Edwards has no pressure and will probably be covered by a teams 4th CB or S. We should be able to capitalize on that early and make teams question who's covering who.

Ruggs will have a young CB who might be a teams #1 guy covering him because he's a threat off the line/deep and YACing. 

Williams will have a vet CB on him but Williams has speed too so if Ruggs has the #1 guy on him they may lean the FS to help deep or on Williams.

Renfrow's chemistry with Carr is known. He has no standout traits and was still able to get his as a rookie with little help other than Waller getting attention.

Edwards gets whatever coverage is left and that is seriously favorable to us.As one of the picks for Mack I can assure you that Gruden wants him to succeed big time. Jacobs is a beast and if Edwards is too then Arnette is gravy and makes the trade even better. Monet saved allows Trent Brown and your legacy looks better even if you don't win a Super Bowl. (I hope for several)

Jones has issues and talent but has done nothing to make me want to develop him. Won't be on the team next year without breaking out to the #2 option.

Nelson's hands are worse than Amari's so can't see him getting love around here. LOL Also has talent and is inconsistent. I'd keep him over Jones at this time.

Bowden I see flaring out and creating mismatches. A special teams ace who is listed at RB but gets 1/3 of his snaps not in the backfield.

Would love to see an unknown explode and make this roster but names will usually win out if it's even close. I expect Carr to get 4,000+ even with a heavy run dose. I think Waller's production slips to 800 because of having so many options and Jacobs getting some passes out his way too. 

Exciting times but I don't think we have a season and if we do it's 6 games. I think a lot of players will be asymptomatic where they feel they can play but a test the day before a game would take 10 or more players off and a team will forfit. At some point I think CV is treated like a super flu, but it's hard to justify closing down as much as they are again and then allowing a sport where men touch each other for 3 hours. Most of these guys are top athletes but some also have medical conditions that would be hard to spin if they died. Kory Stringer comes to mind. It wasn't the supplements but the internal body heat due to not staying hydrated enough that created that situation. The supplements helped raise the body heat and sucked out fluids but as someone who was taking those diuretics for decades myself. I learned you have to make hydration a priority... Like MDMA it's not the drug that kills the kid raving as much as the person's lack of staying cool and hydrated. The euphoric effects affect judgement and it becomes a tragic event. I will neither confirm nor deny my extensive research into these effects having an affect but I can assure you I don't criticize/judge by others hearsay and gossip.  

A recent motorcycle accident in Florida involving a young person is being counted as a CV death is another example. Driver has CV (yes) Did the CV affect the driver's judgement/reactions (maybe) If the driver wasn't riding a motorcycle while sick would they be alive today/ (most likely) so it's CV's fault?!? I guess so when more money is involved for the hospital but people really need to take their masks off because I think it's covering their eyes and ears more than their mouth and nose. Because something smells and all I hear is the social media chirping like it's knowledgeable and a lot less investigating on ones own to see/hear the details. Unfortunately I don't see anything changing for 5 months and it only getting worse. So to play football at this time would be a much nedded distraction for millions but turned political because we're in an election cycle. From a business perspective the NFL provides a product that companies pay HUGE sums to air. With contract talks on the horizon they'll have a hard time spinning whatever happens. I think they should focus on their core base as they're the ones who will support in the hard times to come. The NBA is so focuses on growing in the Chinese market that they aren't saying squat about the Human rights violations. All the outrage here but Hong Kong, The treatment of Muslim Uighurs looks straight up Holocaust yet I don't hear a peep except for a player wearing a Blue Lives Matter cover... I'm sure there are quite a few Muslims in the NBA but it really isn't about 'race' just the only color that matters 'GREEN' for that money.

I don't support groups or movements, I support individuals. I've seen and stood up to cops when I've witnessed profiling in person but I also support them for their service. In today's society it seems like you're expected to be on one side or another. I see lots of grey and as long as a person isn't trying to stop another's pursuit of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness while not harming another then it's all good. If I played a sport professionally, I'd want to play in 2020 not just for myself but also for understanding a bigger picture. People need something to enjoy and their money is how they decide what should get their attention. My job provides me a platform to serve and for my service I get financial compensation. If I chose to not provide that service my market very well not invest in my employer which could reduce my ability to provide for my family. If the risk outweighed the reward then I'd make a different choice. I could see big linemen not wanting to play because of health risks. Flag football might be how this season plays out and I think for a year it would be tolerated but if it became the norm people would do other things on Sunday.

[jimkelly02]

Very good post... really nailed the issues.  I’m not going to say much, due to being warned multiple times, but I’m almost done with the NBA entirely... and that’s sad because I’m a massive Lakers fan and really wanted a title this year “for Kobe”.  It’s not even a “I won’t support the NBA”, it’s more like I just don’t care for the players.  I’m not trying to make a political stand.... I’m just really losing interest because I don’t respect the organization and so many players.  I’m glad Harden wore that blue lives mask. I’m also sick of some (key word some) black athlete’s and entertainers (Nick Cannon in particular) just flat out having hatred in their heart for white people.  Ummm,,, yeah they can kiss my proud Irish *** 🇮🇪 ☘️ I’m done with them... forever.  I’ll leave it at that.

Back to football.... I don’t think Wallers production drops and if it does it won’t be by much.  I think he’s again going to be a 85-95, 1050-1200 yd TE.  I’m high on Edwards long term but I see virtually no way a 4th option WR with the TE group we have gets 700-800 yds.  How often are we going 4 WR sets?  
It’s easy to say oh Edwards will get 700-800 yds.... but break down 4050-4100 yds over all our players.... it just won’t work out.

[NCOUGHMAN]

19 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

Very good post... really nailed the issues.  I’m not going to say much, due to being warned multiple times, but I’m almost done with the NBA entirely... and that’s sad because I’m a massive Lakers fan and really wanted a title this year “for Kobe”.  It’s not even a “I won’t support the NBA”, it’s more like I just don’t care for the players.  I’m not trying to make a political stand.... I’m just really losing interest because I don’t respect the organization and so many players.  I’m glad Harden wore that blue lives mask. I’m also sick of some (key word some) black athlete’s and entertainers (Nick Cannon in particular) just flat out having hatred in their heart for white people.  Ummm,,, yeah they can kiss my proud Irish *** 🇮🇪 ☘️ I’m done with them... forever.  I’ll leave it at that.

Back to football.... I don’t think Wallers production drops and if it does it won’t be by much.  I think he’s again going to be a 85-95, 1050-1200 yd TE.  I’m high on Edwards long term but I see virtually no way a 4th option WR with the TE group we have gets 700-800 yds.  How often are we going 4 WR sets?  
It’s easy to say oh Edwards will get 700-800 yds.... but break down 4050-4100 yds over all our players.... it just won’t work out.

Did you even watch the nick cannon interview? I watched it last night. You can’t always believe the media’s cliff notes sometimes you have to see/hear it for yourself so you can form an educated opinion.

also I’d rather have tds than 6k yards

[oakdb36]

Why are you all talking about politics on this forum now? I'm sure there are forums to discuss that.