Looking ahead to 2020

[Cruz Cruz]

After hearing Jay Glazer infer that Gettleman is on the hot seat and might get fired with a 6-10 season or worse, I decided to take a peak at next year opponents and it looks pretty rough. This of course comes with caveat that there will be injuries and  some teams will over and under achieve but this is what we are looking at:

At this point what do you predict the Giants record will be?

[JStar221]

I think he has been an awful GM. Awful. Though because the Jones pick might be very good I was okay with keeping him 1 more year and see what he can do.  

[Gmen]

9 hours ago, JStar221 said:

I think he has been an awful GM. Awful. Though because the Jones pick might be very good I was okay with keeping him 1 more year and see what he can do.  

He was brought in to improve the offensive line, and so far he's failed to do that.  That's the biggest knock on him.

However, if you revisit the high profile moves that he was most criticized for, so far he appears to have been right. 

1. Passing on Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen for Saquon.  Say what you want about positional value, but two years later, those quarterbacks are uninspiring at best.
2. Trading OBJ. Considering what Antonio Brown and Hopkins got traded for, we got great value. OBJ wasn't worth the headache or the cap space at this point.
3. Letting Landon Collins go. What has that $80 million dollar contract done for the Redskins defense? He's not a game changer
4. Drafting Daniel Jones. I believe he picked the right quarterback. That bought him a lot of leeway in my book.

He's an easy target for the media because he goes against the grain, he's arrogant, and he's not a good public speaker. 

You can't pat him on the back considering the Giants are picking the top 5 once again, but I don't see how the alternatives would've made us better.  Imagine if we had Sam Darnold throwing to OBJ, No Saquon or Lawrence, and Landon Collins getting paid $15 mill to get burned in the secondary.  We'd still be picking in the top 5.  But I think the future is brighter now than it would have been with the alternative.

[JStar221]

What do you mean by high profile? 

Here is some of my  take:

1-- I don't agree that not taking Sam Darnold was the right move or wrong move. It's still undecided.

2-- I don't think it's set that taking Barkley was the right move. 

3---- Going after Solder with such an enormous contract was an enormous blunder.

4-- Not recognizing the team was in a rebuild mode from the start, he blew the opportunity to trade Collins earlier . If he did recognize it (which is hard to tell because you can't take anything he says with any sense of confidence), then it was even worse not to trade him earlier.

5-- If he knew Giants were in rebuild then why trade draft picks and expend pretty big bucks on Ogeltree? 

6-- Choosing Pat Shurmurr as the head coach was a huge blunder. 

I do applaud the media for getting on him because I think he has been awful. I think he has fouled things up since the moment he joined. I read he is on the hot seat of which I am thankful. There is a reason he is on the hot seat. He's even said he has done a bad job. I fear he is a GM who thinks primarily in the old style football mode. 

And yeah I agree the future is brighter - one is that we don't have our 2 coaches whom I thought were awful. Secondly, DG possibly has one more chance left to perform. And third, when you draft 2, 6 and 4 in the draft and you have money to spend, your future should be brighter. 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by JStar221
typo

[Gmen19851]

21 minutes ago, JStar221 said:

What do you mean by high profile? 

Here is some of my  take:

1-- I don't agree that not taking Sam Darnold was the right move or wrong move. It's still undecided.

2-- I don't think it's set that taking Barkley was the right move. 

3---- Going after Solder with such an enormous contract was an enormous blunder.

4-- Not recognizing the team was in a rebuild mode from the start, he blew the opportunity to trade Collins earlier . If he did recognize it (which is hard to tell because you can't take anything he says with any sense of confidence), then it was even worse not to trade him earlier.

5-- If he knew Giants were in rebuild then why trade draft picks and expend pretty big bucks on Ogeltree? 

6-- Choosing Pat Shurmurr as the head coach was a huge blunder. 

I do applaud the media for getting on him because I think he has been awful. I think he has fouled things up since the moment he joined. I read he is on the hot seat of which I am thankful. There is a reason he is on the hot seat. He's even said he has done a bad job. I fear he is a GM who thinks primarily in the old style football mode. 

And yeah I agree the future is brighter - one is that we don't have our 2 coaches whom I thought were awful. Secondly, DG possibly has one more chance left to perform. And third, when you draft 2, 6 and 4 in the draft and you have money to spend, your future should be brighter. 

 

The highest pick he was offered for Collins was a 4th round pick.  They got a 3rd round comp pick for him so holding on to him turned out to be the right move.

[JStar221]

Just now, Gmen19851 said:

The highest pick he was offered for Collins was a 4th round pick.  They got a 3rd round comp pick for him so holding on to him turned out to be the right move.

I doubt this was the highest picks offered to him before 2018 season started. .I think prior to the start of the 2018 season  they could've gotten better. And that 3rd rd pick is what --    99? 

 

They would've gotten better than the 99th pick if they traded him a year earlier. 

[Gmen]

40 minutes ago, JStar221 said:

What do you mean by high profile? 

Here is some of my  take:

1-- I don't agree that not taking Sam Darnold was the right move or wrong move. It's still undecided.

2-- I don't think it's set that taking Barkley was the right move. 

3---- Going after Solder with such an enormous contract was an enormous blunder.

4-- Not recognizing the team was in a rebuild mode from the start, he blew the opportunity to trade Collins earlier . If he did recognize it (which is hard to tell because you can't take anything he says with any sense of confidence), then it was even worse not to trade him earlier.

5-- If he knew Giants were in rebuild then why trade draft picks and expend pretty big bucks on Ogeltree? 

6-- Choosing Pat Shurmurr as the head coach was a huge blunder. 

I do applaud the media for getting on him because I think he has been awful. I think he has fouled things up since the moment he joined. I read he is on the hot seat of which I am thankful. There is a reason he is on the hot seat. He's even said he has done a bad job. I fear he is a GM who thinks primarily in the old style football mode. 

And yeah I agree the future is brighter - one is that we don't have our 2 coaches whom I thought were awful. Secondly, DG possibly has one more chance left to perform. And third, when you draft 2, 6 and 4 in the draft and you have money to spend, your future should be brighter. 

 

1.  Daniel Jones showed more in his very first start than Darnold did in two years. Darnold is still living off pre-draft hype. He's QB purgatory

2.  If he stays healthy he'll be a stud

3.  Agreed. Solder, Omameh, Remmers were all bad OL moves.  Like I said, he hasn't fixed the O-line

4.  He traded away as many players as he could. Apple, Flowers, Snacks, JPP, Jenkins.  He's not shy about trading players and if he had a good offer on the table for Collins he would've taken it.

5.  Ogletree was a mistake.  I get the reasoning because they wanted a leader to wear the green dot.  But it was a mistake.

6.  Shurmur at HC was a mistake.  I think he was a good coordinator though.  That doesn't always translate into good HC.  Everyone's favorite was Matt Patricia, and how is he doing in Detroit?

Edited April 11, 2020 by Gmen

[Gmen]

In regard to the 2018 QB class...

 

 

 

[JStar221]

1-- I am not disputing that Jones showed more. That's why I said I was okay with keeping DG 1 more year because of the Jones pick. As I said I want to see what he can do with him (and Barkley). I'm disputing that you made it sound definitive that Jones will be better. Jones did not have a "Dan Marino" rookie year. The jury is still out on who will be better. Baker Mayfeild had a very good rookie year. His 2nd year stunted in some manner because of his OLINE. I don't want that for Jones.  

2-- Part of the reason why some would say you don't draft a RB as high as 2 is because their expected life of being high quality is limited due to injuries. So Barkley's injury in year 2 we hope is a bit freakish, but we can't dismiss the injury factor for RB's going forward either. Thus if he gets hurt again those that didn't like the pick will point to this and claim they were right. Which they would be . . . 

3-- We agree about the OLINE but  I look at it like-- this is nearly half the game that DG has been incompetent in. The OLINE affects the RB and the QB. For example, I don't think Jones will show better than Darnold if the Giants don't get him an OLINE while the Jets do. And to further that,  I think it would have been a wasted pick in taking Barkley unless you get a a good OLINE. So if DG doesn't get an OLINE, he is affecting the entire offense and impacting in a big way his two big time stars. Without that good OLINE, the pick of Barkley will prove to be bad, and Jones will struggle much more than he otherwise should. 

4--- I'm not talking about other players that you brought up that he traded away. I'm talking about Collins. You cite players he has traded to try to show that means he would have traded Collins too if he could have. I don't agree with your take though ofc anything is possible. IMO his actions told us what he was doing-- when he paid so much for Solder, traded draft picks for Ogletree and kept Collins. One of his brain-dead comments at the time was "I didn't bring in Solder and trade Ogletree to rebuild." 

And to further that point, I don't think he is this astute trader. Didn't we hear rumblings that SanFran wanted OBJ and would have possibly given up more? And we've heard some pretty bizarre stuff that he didn't call back or shop OBJ as much as he should have? Didn't have make some bizarre comment that he doesn't call other teams? I'm not sure where the reality is-- but his overall stupid comments, how he represents himself and the organization and what I feel have been a lot of bad moves, you think it's okay to dismiss all that? I think he missed the boat in trading Colins. Clearly he should have traded him though, if he got a better than late 3rd rd pick, right? And I think he would have. 

I think the way he represents himself, and how he drafts and how he chooses FA's -- all of it is the sum of "old school" trying to show that he is right. What if you want him to be right but think he is all wrong? For example, what if he is doing exactly what he thinks is successful and that is that he doesn't feel he needs that good of an OL because he has "an elite RB" and a QB that can scramble? That would be a dumb take on things by him imo. But it wouldn't surprise me he thinks Barkley can be elite for example without one. He can be vs "Washington." 

5-- It's true that I hate the guy. But I want him to win!!! And I think he can win enough in 2020. If he wins enough, I'll call him "colorful" and "eccentric" and I'll like him. I just don't trust him. I don't care about Patricia. Part of the GM's job is to win. And I think the best way to win enough next year is to get that OT in rd 1 and get a starting center. If they get an OT in rd 2 -- or later and he winds up a pretty good starter I'll be elated too. But if the offense underperforms and DG didn't address the OT and Center well enough, during the year and after, I'll be posting again saying what an awful GM he is. 

I want them badly to draft an OT in rd 1. If they don't and take one in rd 2 and the rd 2 guy is bad, I'll have to hear how "we had do bypass the OT in rd 1 anyways." In fun, that type of comment will infuriate me.     

Edited April 11, 2020 by JStar221
typo

[JStar221]

2 hours ago, Gmen said:

In regard to the 2018 QB class...

 

 

 

IMO what you are posting is pretty irrelevant. Eli Manning was rated 23rd in rating in his 2nd year. It would've been a lot worse without/if he didn't have a good team/ Tiki Barber.  

Two QB's 25 yo Chris Simms and Byron Leftwich had higher ratings than Manning. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by JStar221
typo

[JStar221]

23 hours ago, Cruz Cruz said:

After hearing Jay Glazer infer that Gettleman is on the hot seat and might get fired with a 6-10 season or worse, I decided to take a peak at next year opponents and it looks pretty rough. This of course comes with caveat that there will be injuries and  some teams will over and under achieve but this is what we are looking at:

At this point what do you predict the Giants record will be?

I do think Dg has a good chance as the Giants do - to do well. Music to my ears I heard on WFAN second-hand that Simms say it doesn't look like they are going to go after SImmons. 

 

I really think with the right picks DG can get this being pretty good and have December football mean something as long as Jones is good. I would love it. Then keep DG and his his craziness. 

[Acgott]

We are probably looking at a 6-10 season, 8-8 if we are super lucky. Corona is going to hurt us a lot with a first time head coach, and we don’t have many playmakers.