El Ramster Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 How is this guy such an avg player? How is that even possible? The man is built like a greek god.. But plays passes like a scrub QB. No accuracy, Touch or anticipation on his throws. W-L record since 2011. 53-41-1 Ranks, 24th.. Completion % 58.4 Ranks, 35th.. TD-INT Ratio 1.75 Ranks, 18th.. Passer Rating 86.1 Ranks, 25th This season.. 1 TD passes a game.. 59% Completion percentage. Passer rating, 85.. Is it time for Carolina to move him? He's not getting any better. Still unrefined as a QB. He's an athlete playing the position.. And I've been banging this drum for a while.. 7 years in the league and his accuracy hasn't improved at all.. And he's not off to a slow start.. He's avg his career numbers. He's a super avg QB. Or are y'all still blinded by his fake hustle playmaking runs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) Always has and always will be a pedestrian passer. Only defense is that he's had very poor offensive help in terms of WRs and RBs his entire career. For a QB with his skillset his ceiling is extremely dependent on having quality receivers to throw to. I think you have to lean on him until his athleticism fails because that Panthers offense is ill-equipped to score any points with a QB that's as physically dynamic as Cam or one that is able to withstand as much punishment. Edited September 23, 2017 by Malik 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmad Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 I mean.... we've seen his highs during his 2015 MVP season in which he went 15-1 and went to a superbowl. But sure the panthers should just trade him because Derek Anderson is a franchise QB in the making. Newton is far from the best QB in the NFL, but he's proven he can carry the team and the panthers would be beyond stupid to trade him. It'd be almost as stupid as hiring the former GM who ran the team into the ground and set them up to get Newton....Oh wait.... In all seriousness, Bash on newton all you like he's still better than half the NFL's QBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 12 minutes ago, Malik said: Always has and always will be a pedestrian passer. Only defense is that he's had very poor offensive help in terms of WRs and RBs his entire career. For a QB with his skillset his ceiling is extremely dependent on having quality receivers to throw to. I mean, aren't most? Carolina has had one of the weakest WR corps in the NFL since Steve Smith left. Not many succeed with that. And he really elevated the group he had in 2015, honestly. I do agree, he would need either a better OL or a better group of receivers to step up from where he is now, but that's not awful, that's really just normal except for the elites who do well regardless and the bad QBs who do poorly regardless. He's a slightly above average QB with elite traits and a poor supporting cast. That all gets you to average performance. That's not surprising, and that isn't justification to move him, at all. You'd be better off trying to actually build a better surrounding offense than trying to replace Newton. Newton isn't great, but he is good enough. His accuracy isn't bad enough to sink him. It just isn't what it needs to be to help his athleticism carry an offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 Newtowns accuracy is horrible.. Go look at last week! Dude has no touch.. He missed 4-5 easy throws.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 This thread looks like another great example of boxscore scouting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersuavesky Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Cam Newton is not average. Anyone who says so has not watched him play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) He is calibrated to throw a foot higher than he should. If he brought some of the throws down a touch, he'd probably have an elite QBR.... Edited September 23, 2017 by Hunter2_1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriotsheatyan Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 5 hours ago, Supersuavesky said: Cam Newton is not average. Anyone who says so has not watched him play. Definitely. He is below average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Malik said: Always has and always will be a pedestrian passer. Only defense is that he's had very poor offensive help in terms of WRs and RBs his entire career. For a QB with his skillset his ceiling is extremely dependent on having quality receivers to throw to. I think you have to lean on him until his athleticism fails because that Panthers offense is ill-equipped to score any points with a QB that's as physically dynamic as Cam or one that is able to withstand as much punishment. Huh? His MVP season was him throwing to guys mostly who weren't very good lol. Hes a flawed QB, so when you don't have the situation around you to minimise such flaws, you get what you get. Erratic QB play. And he always seems like he's hurt as well. He doesn't look like the athlete we saw a couple years ago Edited September 23, 2017 by Kip Smithers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everlong Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) Just because you're not in the same tier as Brady/Brees/Rodgers isn't an indictment against a QB. Cam is overrated and has noticeable flaws, but suggesting Carolina to trade him is as asinine as the guy who suggested Indy should trade Luck. Good quarterbacks are hard to come by; you don't just simply trade them. Edited September 23, 2017 by everlong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchFalcon Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 The issue with Cam is for a great deal mental. If the Panthers are winning games because of him and the pundits are heaping their praise on him then Cam plays like an unstoppable force of nature. When things start to deviate from that path ever so slightly he turns into a sulking child. He reminds me of Vick in ways that he'd be a lot better if he'd spend more time honing his craft instead of using his elite athleticism as a crutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 You don't trade a guy who's had the kind of season Cam did in 2015. His accuracy blows, like big time, but his ceiling is high enough to get you to a superbowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraziafraze07 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Cam is far from perfect, but at this point, I feel like he's underrated because people just look at the completion percentage without considering any context. The truth of the matter is that no other QB in the league is asked to do as much for his offense as Cam. Mike Shula has designed an offense that takes advantage of Cam's arm talent pushing the ball deep down the field. Cam excels working the seams and deep sidelines. The problem with this is that this Carolina team has three offensive flaws that amplify one another: 1) The receivers. Kelvin Benjamin and Devin Funchess were among the worst WRs last season at gaining separation from defenders during their routes. Cam was constantly having to force his throws into very tight windows. When you're pushing the ball 15-20 yards down the field to WRs that only have a foot or two of separation, your completion percentage is going to suffer. 2) The offensive line. While Carolina has built a pretty good interior offensive line, they haven't been able to find long term, consistently adequate offensive tackle play. In Cam's 2015 MVP season, Shula did a very good job of scheming around this. Cam was fully healthy, and this really allowed Carolina's run game to flourish. And that run game helped Carolina run play action or to pass the ball without play action from heavy sets that made it seem like they were going to run the ball. These heavy sets were essentially max protections schemes where Cam would only have two or three receivers out on routes. Last season and to start this season, the offensive line has not played as well. Part of this is that Newton has been banged up and Carolina has not been able to center their running game around him as much, which has in turn altered what they are able to do passing wise. Part of this is also that Mike Shula's scheme was exposed last in 2015, first by Dan Quinn's Falcons in Carolina's lone regular season loss and then again during the Super Bowl, when Wade Phillips blue dog blitzed his way into Carolina's collective soul. Teams now know how to counter Carolina's max protection schemes. They can also find success by isolating Carolina's tackles with their defensive schemes. The Bills did this very effectively last week getting Jerry Hughes one on one with Matt Kalil repeatedly. The leaky offensive line is a big culprit in Cam's injuries over the last year plus (oh, that and officials that refuse to protect from head shots, etc.). 3) Which brings me to the final problem: Mike Shula. As I discussed above, he schemed quite well in 2015. But as the book is out on what made Carolina so successfull that year, he has not adapted to mitigate the two problems listed above. The pressure Cam faces in the pocket could be counteracted if Shula would cook up some plays with crossing routes, slants, and hitches closer to the line of scrimmage that didn't take as long to develop, but he continues to call slow-developing long passing plays with receivers that struggle to gain separation. They have been leaking Christian McCaffrey out into the flat or even the middle of the field, and Cam has not found him at times, which is Cam's fault, but the route trees need to be redesigned so that we have more than just the one underneath option. I watched the Rams-49ers game the other night, and Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan prove that with the proper scheme where the route combinations put pressure on defenses to make coverage choices and have a high probability of getting open, you can move the ball on offense with QBs like Jared Goff and Brian Hoyer. It's frustrating as a Panthers fan to watch Carolina play and see Cam have to play almost perfectly because he's asked to push the ball deep downfield into tight windows, often from unclean pockets. And all these schematic issues are also hampered by Carolina's desire to play ball control. They don't get lined up quickly enough before each snap and are often snapping the ball with a second left on the play clock. This gives defenses the advantage of knowing when to go. I don't want anyone to read the above and think I place no blame on Cam at all. He certainly could improve, particularly with his mechanics. His footwork is inconsistent, which is the main culprit for those overthrows to open receivers. Regardless of scheme, he also needs to be more willing to take a checkdown if it's available. But for anyone watching the Panthers, it should be pretty clear that when Cam is playing well, he is still hampered by the offense around him. And because the offense is so reliant on Cam and asks so much of him, when he is having an off day, those offensive limitations are even more readily apparent and the offense looks terrible. There is no margin for error. So you have to look past completion percentage and understand the context of Carolina's offense. Cam is certainly a good enough to be a "franchise QB," and the thought that he's some mediocre bum who needs to be replaced is laughable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 I agree. Carolina should trade him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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