Jamal Adams Trade Thread

[KingOfNewYork]

Paying Adams isn’t going to take this team to the next level. He’s very very useful but paying him right now does nothing for us. He still won’t shut up at the end of the day.

[JetsandI]

Franchised Safeties Justin Simmons and Anthony Harris had no new deals as the deadline is passed.  Adams loses some leverage here.

[KBS756]

17 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Paying Adams isn’t going to take this team to the next level. He’s very very useful but paying him right now does nothing for us. He still won’t shut up at the end of the day.

If he gets paid he will shut up about money ... probably will start about something else but hes passionate about being great and about winning so if he isn't running his mouth about wanting out .. 

[drew39k]

1 hour ago, KBS756 said:

Honestly if the market for a S is 15 mil pay him 4 -5 20 million ... but keep the next 2 years so it’s be a 6-7 year total contract ... would average him out to 15.6-15.9 a year not a huge bump and market will have caught up by the time its his time.

jamal means much more for our defense than most give him credit for ... and probably more than he means for other teams as well.

if these other teams can pay their players we can pay our best one.

i agree his time hasn’t come, but that’s why it should be an extension at the end of the already 2 existing years 

That's how I would do it. Make the extra years take place after the current deal ends. If what he truly wants is long term security as proof that the team wants him it should be a good fit. He gives up a potentially higher salary the if he would play it out to FA but assures him a safety net over the next 6 or so years.

 

[xrade]

This has more to do than just salary. I truly believe JA does not want to be here. He wants his hometown team (Cowboy) and/or a team that can win now. Let’s just say we pay JA. What happens when another safety starts making more or even close to him. Is JA going to just accept that? Me thinks the twitter rants will start again. 

[GangGreen420]

Still think after last October JD doesn’t want to sign him 

[NJC33]

2 hours ago, NJC33 said:

A lot here I disagree with, but let's focus on the bolded because it's a misrepresentation of how the cap works. $15M would equate to a lesser value than what Eddie Jackson signed for, accounting for inflation...I.e Jamal is clearly worth more than $15M.

I'll continue to use Bobby Wagers contract for comparison sake, because I believe it's a similar situation - transcendent player vs. positional value. Using his contract as a precedent + the logic previously described: $18M-$20M is far more reasonable.

..EDIT: FWIW: If you don't think Jamal is worth $18M that's fine (No reason to argue), but it's a far more objective way to look at his market value as opposed to just slotting him slightly ahead of a lesser player who signed a year ago. 

Figure I'd elaborate on this to show how I concluded between $18M-$20M would be fair market value: 

The ILB market had been most equivocally comparable to the S market, before Mosley/Wagner reset it last year. Using Wagner as a comparison is tricky because so many contracts were signed in sequence right before his deal, thus, to be fair Mosley is really the most applicable precedent to follow. His deal was roughly 26% higher than the next highest contract (Shaq Thompson - $13.5 APY). Applying this same 26% increase to Eddie Jackson's deal (APY) would give Jamal a value of $18.4M.

Here's where Wagner comes into the discussion: Again - I believe he's the most comparable player to Jamal because of his impact relative to 'positional value'. His $18M APY accounts for 9% of the 2020 salary cap (In reality it's only 7.5% because of how the deal is structured). Assuming the cap doesn't flatten, 9% of the projected 2021 cap (When most people believe he should get a deal), would be roughly $19.4M...  Can we all agree that Jamal at 24 is just as, if not more valuable than Wagner at 30? 

Point being: Regardless if you think he's worth the $18M-$20M, it's a fair & reasonable ask.  

Edited July 15, 2020 by NJC33

[Bobby816]

2 hours ago, NJC33 said:

A lot here I disagree with, but let's focus on the bolded because it's a misrepresentation of how the cap works. $15M would equate to a lesser value than what Eddie Jackson signed for, accounting for inflation...I.e Jamal is clearly worth more than $15M.

I'll continue to use Bobby Wagers contract for comparison sake, because I believe it's a similar situation - transcendent player vs. positional value. Using his contract as a precedent + the logic previously described: $18M-$20M is far more reasonable.

..EDIT: FWIW: If you don't think Jamal is worth $18M that's fine (No reason to argue), but it's a far more objective way to look at his market value as opposed to just slotting him slightly ahead of a lesser player who signed a year ago. 

I just don’t like your example. And it actually plays into my point. I don’t think Lb is worth the money Wagner got. And I like Wagner. Just to me even a star LB isn’t worth top dollar. I wasn’t a fan of the Mosley deal either. And it could be argued still how bad it was. We were actually pretty good at LB last year with our backups out there rather than the like 25+mill we have tied up in our 2 starters right now. That’s my point. Adams is great. But IMO a guy in his role shouldn't get big money. Especially after only barely fulfilling half his rookie contract. 

[NJerseypaint]

9 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I just don’t like your example. And it actually plays into my point. I don’t think Lb is worth the money Wagner got. And I like Wagner. Just to me even a star LB isn’t worth top dollar. I wasn’t a fan of the Mosley deal either. And it could be argued still how bad it was. We were actually pretty good at LB last year with our backups out there rather than the like 25+mill we have tied up in our 2 starters right now. That’s my point. Adams is great. But IMO a guy in his role shouldn't get big money. Especially after only barely fulfilling half his rookie contract. 

I don't think we were watching the same games. Our ILBs were atrocious, especially in coverage. Hewitt was way over his head. It was also clear the effect Mosley had when he was on the field versus not. It was definitely an overpay, but not without reason.

[xrade]

32 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

Figure I'd elaborate on this to show how I concluded between $18M-$20M would be fair market value: 

The ILB market had been most equivocally comparable to the S market, before Mosley/Wagner reset it last year. Using Wagner as a comparison is tricky because so many contracts were signed in sequence right before his deal, thus, to be fair Mosley is really the most applicable precedent to follow. His deal was roughly 26% higher than the next highest contract (Shaq Thompson - $13.5 APY). Applying this same 26% increase to Eddie Jackson's deal (APY) would give Jamal a value of $18.4M.

Here's where Wagner comes into the discussion: Again - I believe he's the most comparable player to Jamal because of his impact relative to 'positional value'. His $18M APY accounts for 9% of the 2020 salary cap (In reality it's only 7.5% because of how the deal is structured). Assuming the cap doesn't flatten, 9% of the projected 2021 cap (When most people believe he should get a deal), would be roughly $19.4M...  Can we all agree that Jamal at 24 is just as, if not more valuable than Wagner at 30? 

Point being: Regardless if you think he's worth the $18M-$20M, it's a fair & reasonable ask.  

I like your point. Makes sense. However, it the “assumption” the cap does not flatten, which is the great unknown, that concerns me and probably JD. 

[NJC33]

18 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I just don’t like your example. And it actually plays into my point. I don’t think Lb is worth the money Wagner got. And I like Wagner. Just to me even a star LB isn’t worth top dollar. I wasn’t a fan of the Mosley deal either. And it could be argued still how bad it was. We were actually pretty good at LB last year with our backups out there rather than the like 25+mill we have tied up in our 2 starters right now. That’s my point. Adams is great. But IMO a guy in his role shouldn't get big money. Especially after only barely fulfilling half his rookie contract. 

Believe me, I wasn't a fan of the Mosley contract either (Especially after seeing how Ravens fans reacted). 

That's besides my point though. You saying he should be paid $15M doesn't coincide with what the market dictates. If you don't think he's worth $18M-$20M, fine, that's your opinion, but that's precisely what he should be asking for.

[Bobby816]

8 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

Believe me, I wasn't a fan of the Mosley contract either (Especially after seeing how Ravens fans reacted). 

That's besides my point though. You saying he should be paid $15M doesn't coincide with what the market dictates. If you don't think he's worth $18M-$20M, fine, that's your opinion, but that's precisely what he should be asking for.

But I believe JDs grooming as a GM has taught him to not to shell out big chunks of cap on non premium positions (generally speaking). We saw him several times this offseason play hardball with guys. Even at premium positions. I think he’s a guy that’s not going to cave often. He values certain areas and doesn’t value others. He sets a price I believe based on the position, the players skill level, age and goes from there. And won’t budge much off of that. 

[NJC33]

2 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

But I believe JDs grooming as a GM has taught him to not to shell out big chunks of cap on non premium positions (generally speaking). We saw him several times this offseason play hardball with guys. Even at premium positions. I think he’s a guy that’s not going to cave often. He values certain areas and doesn’t value others. He sets a price I believe based on the position, the players skill level, age and goes from there. And won’t budge much off of that. 

That's fine. All I'm suggesting is that his asking price is within reason, despite what people may think. 

[NJC33]

23 minutes ago, xrade said:

I like your point. Makes sense. However, it the “assumption” the cap does not flatten, which is the great unknown, that concerns me and probably JD. 

Agreed - it's all hypothetical at this point. Just trying to add some clarity for those who seem shocked by his asking price. 

Thing is, we're starting to lose leverage from that perspective. Even if it's reasonable to say "But.. the Browns are wrong" "But..McCaffrey plays RB" "But... Mahomes is Mahomes" "But..the cap might flatten" ...Fair or not, the "buts" start to sound like excuses in a negotiation, despite the validity of such arguments.

I'm still 100% on the side that Douglas has no obligation to pay Jamal right now, just my 2 cents on how the situation is unfolding. 

[Bobby816]

9 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

That's fine. All I'm suggesting is that his asking price is within reason, despite what people may think. 

Perhaps. But it doesn’t change that he wants premium money at a not premium position. I think that’s something JD will try and work toward changing. I mean our 2 highest paid players right now are arguably the 2 easiest position to draft well at in RB and ILB. Do we really want to add S to that?