2020 Broncos Forum NFL Draft Thread

[germ-x]

1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said:

Well, when you don’t know what you’re doing, you’re going to guess right sometimes too. And when he guesses right with that athleticism, it’s going to lead to a lot of splash plays that make people forget what a mess his overall game is. 

I doubt Vic will be impressed. Maybe he will be able to develop into a linebacker, but his learning curve is steeeeep. With the likelihood of a shortened offseason with less reps to go around, I can’t see him not being a liability as a rookie. Then you hope he can have instincts coached into him (far from a safe bet) while learning NFL LB responsibilities. 

You don’t get lucky 100-155x a year and have 15 tackles for loss without having some idea of how to play LB.  He has his issues, mainly that he goes into heat seeking missile mode too often and gets reckless, you’re not wrong there.  But he also makes more terrific reads then he does bad ones.  He’s a day 1 starter and good player.  Not in Willis’ class, but he’s a 1st round talent. 

He won’t be for everyone though.  For sure.

Edited April 22, 2020 by germ-x

[AKRNA]

3 hours ago, BullsandBroncos said:

While this is true and I agree, we continue to get burned by having mediocre players like Todd Davis there who continuously get burned in coverage. Wouldn't shock me in the least if Hollins took his job next to AJ.

I'm really curious about that and would love some input from you guys that watched him alot.  I only saw two games last year but in each one he made a decent showing.

So, can he play in the middle? How's his coverage? 

When I watched him he missed a couple reads, had some false steps but overall decent for a rookie. He also looks like he's got the ability, although lacking some skills, to be an impact player in coverage. Same as a pass rusher.

As I stated, my opinion is based on an extremely shallow input base. What do you guys think?

[BroncoBruin]

1 hour ago, germ-x said:

You don’t get lucky 100-155x a year and have 15 tackles for loss without having some idea of how to play LB.  He has his issues, mainly that he goes into heat seeking missile mode too often and gets reckless, you’re not wrong there.  But he also makes more terrific reads then he does bad ones.  He’s a day 1 starter and good player.  Not in Willis’ class, but he’s a 1st round talent. 

He won’t be for everyone though.  For sure.

You can put up those numbers without showing the ability to be an NFL backer. It’s a different game. What he did at OU doesn’t even resemble what a linebacker is asked to do in the NFL. It was a dumbed down role limiting his capacity to make mistakes and he still made them constantly. Also whiffed on a ridiculous amount of tackles. And didn’t show much promise in coverage. Would you really want a LB who even in Year 3 as a starter wasn’t trusted to read-and-react or play in coverage? He won purely off speed and motor. That’s what he is. 

Day 1 starter because of draft position, but he’ll be a liability as a rookie. First round athlete, for sure. The mental traits are UDFA caliber. Of recent 1st round LBs, Stephane Anthony is a good comp

Edited April 22, 2020 by BroncoBruin

[BroncoBruin]

36 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

I'm really curious about that and would love some input from you guys that watched him alot.  I only saw two games last year but in each one he made a decent showing.

So, can he play in the middle? How's his coverage? 

When I watched him he missed a couple reads, had some false steps but overall decent for a rookie. He also looks like he's got the ability, although lacking some skills, to be an impact player in coverage. Same as a pass rusher.

As I stated, my opinion is based on an extremely shallow input base. What do you guys think?

To me he didn’t play enough snaps at off ball to make any real impression. Curious if that project is still a go after the coach that vouched for him (Brandon Staley) left for another job. 

[germ-x]

16 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

You can put up those numbers without showing the ability to be an NFL backer. It’s a different game. What he did at OU doesn’t even resemble what a linebacker is asked to do in the NFL. It was a dumbed down role limiting his capacity to make mistakes and he still made them constantly. Also whiffed on a ridiculous amount of tackles. And didn’t show much promise in coverage. He won purely off speed and motor. That’s what he is. 

Day 1 starter because of draft position, but he’ll be a liability as a rookie. First round athlete, for sure. The mental traits are UDFA caliber. Of recent 1st round LBs, Stephane Anthony is a good comp

Yeah I don’t agree with that nor does the tape show it, IMO.  To each their own. 

[BroncoBruin]

I liked Murray a couple years ago until I actually watched him on a play to play basis and saw how lost he is in spite of his team limiting his responsibilities. I’d take Queen, Harrison, Wilson, Gay, Dye, Bailey and Brooks over him of the LBs I’ve seen. So needless to say as a 1st round puck I’d be upset LOL.

[broncosfan_101]

1 hour ago, germ-x said:

You don’t get lucky 100-155x a year and have 15 tackles for loss without having some idea of how to play LB.  He has his issues, mainly that he goes into heat seeking missile mode too often and gets reckless, you’re not wrong there.  But he also makes more terrific reads then he does bad ones.  He’s a day 1 starter and good player.  Not in Willis’ class, but he’s a 1st round talent. 

He won’t be for everyone though.  For sure.

You’ll have a much easier time pulling the reins back on a guy who’s 100mph on every play than you will trying to pump up the ‘give-a-damn’ on someone who likes to coast from time to time. 

[germ-x]

46 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

I liked Murray a couple years ago until I actually watched him on a play to play basis and saw how lost he is in spite of his team limiting his responsibilities. I’d take Queen, Harrison, Wilson, Gay, Dye, Bailey and Brooks over him of the LBs I’ve seen. So needless to say as a 1st round puck I’d be upset LOL.

Dye?  If I knew how to put gifs in here I’d give you a Randy Moss “c’mon man.”  Everyone else has some merit...but Dye?....he’s the weakest LB I’ve seen in this draft.  Give me Murray running around with his head cut off all day over Dye.

Edited April 22, 2020 by germ-x

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

4 hours ago, germ-x said:

You don’t get lucky 100-155x a year and have 15 tackles for loss without having some idea of how to play LB.  He has his issues, mainly that he goes into heat seeking missile mode too often and gets reckless, you’re not wrong there.  But he also makes more terrific reads then he does bad ones.  He’s a day 1 starter and good player.  Not in Willis’ class, but he’s a 1st round talent. 

He won’t be for everyone though.  For sure.

His instincts are top notch. The speed in which he diagnoses the play and starts moving to make a play is incredible. Where he gets into trouble is that he appears to lose situational awareness and go into “heatseeking missile” mode as you called it and get washed out of plays. That’s what he needs to work on, but his feel for the game and mental processing of the play are great 

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

13 hours ago, paul-mac said:

 

That’s a massive waste of resources. We’re trading a LT AND a first round pick for another LT. Rather just keep Bolles and draft someone else at WR

If they view Bolles as an average or below average LT (not saying that I do mind you but that the broncos brass may) then to trade him and your first for a chance to get someone you view as a perenial pro bowler is a no brainer. Let’s take it to a different position. Would you trade 15 and Tim Patrick for Jeudy or Ruggs? How about 15 and AJ Alexander for Simmons? 
 

personally I think Bolles is worth more to this team than he is in trade value but we’ll see come Thursday.

[broncosfan_101]

13 hours ago, broncosfan_101 said:

Trent Williams: 1 year, $12.5M

Garett Bolles: 2 years, $13.5M

Am I crazy, or are these assets pretty similarly valued? Especially considering the need to add 3 years and probably $40M guaranteed onto Trent’s contract just to get his pads on. 

I just found this on Spotrac. Their True Value Score basically combines a player’s PFF score and their salary, so it’s a rough tool to show how much bang for your buck a player’s giving you. The 2019 left tackle table is VERY interesting: 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/valuation/2019/left-tackle/

[germ-x]

7 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

His instincts are top notch. The speed in which he diagnoses the play and starts moving to make a play is incredible. Where he gets into trouble is that he appears to lose situational awareness and go into “heatseeking missile” mode as you called it and get washed out of plays. That’s what he needs to work on, but his feel for the game and mental processing of the play are great 

There are plays where he reads the OL as opposed to the backfield in the games vs Texas and Houston.  That’s a player that instinctually understands football. He does make mistakes, but he isn’t just guessing every snap.  Good player.

[Scoundrel]

2 hours ago, germ-x said:

There are plays where he reads the OL as opposed to the backfield in the games vs Texas and Houston.  That’s a player that instinctually understands football. He does make mistakes, but he isn’t just guessing every snap.  Good player.

Greatest leader in the class also by all accounts. 

[paul-mac]

Just throwing something out there, but between anonymous scout quotes calling him overrated and some talk that teams may not value a tweener S/LB in the top 10, there’s a tiny chance Simmons falls to us.

 

1. Bengals take Burrow

2. Redskins take Young

3. Lions take Okudah

4. Giants take OT1

5/6. Dolphins and Chargers take Tua and Herbert in some order

7. Panthers take Brown

8. Cardinals take OT2

9. Jags take Henderson

10. Browns take OT3

11. Jets take WR1

12. Raiders take WR2

13. 49ers take WR3

14. Bucs take OT4

 

If the board was to fall like this, do we turn the card in on Simmons? I think he could be a base 3-4 LB and also play the Will Parks role in sub packages. 

[broncos67]

2 hours ago, paul-mac said:

Just throwing something out there, but between anonymous scout quotes calling him overrated and some talk that teams may not value a tweener S/LB in the top 10, there’s a tiny chance Simmons falls to us.

 

1. Bengals take Burrow

2. Redskins take Young

3. Lions take Okudah

4. Giants take OT1

5/6. Dolphins and Chargers take Tua and Herbert in some order

7. Panthers take Brown

8. Cardinals take OT2

9. Jags take Henderson

10. Browns take OT3

11. Jets take WR1

12. Raiders take WR2

13. 49ers take WR3

14. Bucs take OT4

 

If the board was to fall like this, do we turn the card in on Simmons? I think he could be a base 3-4 LB and also play the Will Parks role in sub packages. 

I think Carolina and/or Arizona are going to take Simmons, and I wouldn't discount the Chargers taking him if they aren't in love with a QB. But, if he makes it to 10, I could see us trying to move up.

I did see we had a video call with Willie Gay, who I think has sky high potential. It's the off the field stuff with him that's a bit more of a concern, but I do think we have some good defensive leadership to keep all that in order.