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Joe Thomas Gives April ALL-22 Synopsis of the 4 Highly Debated Tackles' Play


Joe's Takes  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. Is Joe Thomas' take on 1a.) Mekhi Becton, 1b.) Jedrick Wills Jr., 3.) Andrew Thomas, 4.) Tristan Wirfs Mostly Right or Wrong?

    • He's mostly wrong, he's off on this one
    • He's mostly right, for the most part I think he sees it clearly
  2. 2. 1) Does Mekhi Becton's positive drug test at the NFL Combine Drop him out of the top 10 if he was going top 10 in the first place? 2.) Do the Browns have plans to take him?

    • 1.) No, it changes nothing for teams., & 2.) I don't think the Browns ever had plans to take him
    • 1.) No, it changes nothing for teams, & 2.) I think the Browns still have plans to take him
    • 1.) Yes, it changes things for teams, & 2.) Though I don't think the Browns ever had plans to take him
    • 1.) Yes, it changes things for teams, & 2.) I think the Browns no longer have plans to take him.
  3. 3. Do you think that the Browns asked Joe to give his opinion on the Tackles before the draft?



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41 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

His analysis is right. It’s really close between all of them, but I could definitely see why he has Becton #1, especially for our scheme. 

If these “experts” knew wtf they were talking about they’d rarely miss on picks.

Opinions are like as....  I think you know the line.

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41 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

His analysis is right. It’s really close between all of them, but I could definitely see why he has Becton #1, especially for our scheme. 

maybe his zone blocking would be a huge advantage if we were looking for a RT. But really, I dont care about run blocking ability when he isnt very good pass blocking

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Listen, I know that JT forgot more about OL play last night than I will ever know, but does this not alarm him/anyone else?

Pros: Potential, athleticism, scheme fit

Cons: Conditioning is a factor for a 364 pound dude, major question marks in pass protection, lots of inexperience, and poor technique in pass pro.

DOES NO ONE ELSE SEE A PROBLEM HERE?????

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32 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Listen, I know that JT forgot more about OL play last night than I will ever know, but does this not alarm him/anyone else?

Pros: Potential, athleticism, scheme fit

Cons: Conditioning is a factor for a 364 pound dude, major question marks in pass protection, lots of inexperience, and poor technique in pass pro.

DOES NO ONE ELSE SEE A PROBLEM HERE?????

I would think that joe is getting at Becton has things that can’t be taught, Bill Callahan can teach technique, conditioning can be improved

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1 minute ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

I would think that joe is getting at Becton has things that can’t be taught, Bill Callahan can teach technique, conditioning can be improved

That I understand. However, that doesn't make him a better "prospect". It means that he has the most natural potential, but it's strange coming from a guy who is a 1st ballot HOF who had short arms/average "measurables" with elite technique to say that makes someone a better "prospect". IMO technique coming into the NFL is arguably the most important trait for an OL, especially when they're also an elite athlete.

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1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

Listen, I know that JT forgot more about OL play last night than I will ever know, but does this not alarm him/anyone else?

Pros: Potential, athleticism, scheme fit

Cons: Conditioning is a factor for a 364 pound dude, major question marks in pass protection, lots of inexperience, and poor technique in pass pro.

DOES NO ONE ELSE SEE A PROBLEM HERE?????

Things like ignoring production for potential is dicey.  Not to say it doesn’t work, but there’s inherent risk in assuming someone is going to get better against better talent.

Pair that with the fact he’s not great in pass pro and probably only saw a couple of NFL starting caliber ends a year and it becomes more of an issue imo.

Edited by LETSGOBROWNIES
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1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

That I understand. However, that doesn't make him a better "prospect". It means that he has the most natural potential, but it's strange coming from a guy who is a 1st ballot HOF who had short arms/average "measurables" with elite technique to say that makes someone a better "prospect". IMO technique coming into the NFL is arguably the most important trait for an OL, especially when they're also an elite athlete.

exactly. Ill take the dude with elite technique over elite athletic ability. the tackle who is the avg athlete/elite technician will be better than the elite athlete/avg technique.

When it comes to pass blocking, Becton has some pretty horrible technique IMO. I will greatly sacrifice run blocking for pass blocking ability. If an LT prospect never learns how to pass block and cant really pick up technique they are just going to turn into guard and than you are back to square one looking for a LT

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2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Listen, I know that JT forgot more about OL play last night than I will ever know, but does this not alarm him/anyone else?

Pros: Potential, athleticism, scheme fit

Cons: Conditioning is a factor for a 364 pound dude, major question marks in pass protection, lots of inexperience, and poor technique in pass pro.

DOES NO ONE ELSE SEE A PROBLEM HERE?????

 

That thing that he's weighing so heavily and what many of us aren't is revealed in his evaluation comments on Wills when he says, " (Wills continued): Overall, he's the guy who is the most NFL ready, and would clearly be the #1 guy if the ceiling for Becton wasn't so high. I see him as the most sure-fire offensive lineman in this draft. His movement skills and suddenness is impressive for a college player."

Therefore, Joe is weighing upside and ceiling far more heavily than any of us on the forum. He doesn't think the deficits that Becton has are fatal flaws. If he didn't weigh ceiling or upside so heavily, he suggests that Wills would be the #1 guy.

We're all so risk averse and burned by the "potential" and "upside" words.  Becton is too risky for me, but in a perfect world where he loses weight, goes all in on his body and conditioning, goes all in on technique improvement, etc it's hard to deny that Becton has the ability to evolve into the top Tackle in the game. 

I just doubt that he'll ever do the required things necessary to fulfill his potential, and I have questions about his sustained into the 4th quarter over the course of a whole season movement ability for a zone scheme.

Edited by Mind Character
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9 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

 

That thing that he's weighing so heavily and what many of us aren't is revealed in his evaluation comments on Wills when he says, " (Wills continued): Overall, he's the guy who is the most NFL ready, and would clearly be the #1 guy if the ceiling for Becton wasn't so high. I see him as the most sure-fire offensive lineman in this draft. His movement skills and suddenness is impressive for a college player."

Therefore, Joe is weighing upside and ceiling far more heavily than any of us on the forum. He doesn't think the deficits that Becton has are fatal flaws. If he didn't weigh ceiling or upside so heavily, he suggests that Wills would be the #1 guy.

Thinking something isn’t a fatal flaw and it actually not being a fatal flaw are two different things.

Im not saying he’s wrong, who tf knows, I’m just saying there is an identified issue.

9 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

We're all so risk averse and burned by the "potential" and "upside" words. 

That has nothing to do with the Browns for me.  I’m risk averse in most things that carry significant investment.  Risk inherently lowers value.  How much is up to each person.

Imo we don’t need an all world LT.  We do need whoever we take to be able to hold down the spot for 8-10 years and be an effective starter.

9 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

Becton is too risky for me, but in a perfect world where he loses weight, goes all in on his body and conditioning, goes all in on technique improvement, etc it's hard to deny that Becton has the ability to evolve into the top Tackle in the game. 
 

no argument from me at all.  My first requirement for Becton if I’m Berry is report to camp at 340.  That’s long been my issue.

If not you’re expecting him to be a once in a lifetime physical talent who was “good” in college (not great) who is then going to redefine what a freak OT is.  
 

im not buying those odds.

9 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

I just doubt that he'll ever do the required things necessary to fulfill his potential, and I have questions about his sustained into the 4th quarter over the course of a whole season movement ability for a zone scheme.

I have no clue, never met the kid.

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Add Chris Simms to the list of people who think Wirfs movement skills will mean he has to start at guard in the nfl.  24:24 to 30:30 on Wirfs.  His list is 1) Wills 2) Becton, 3) Thomas and 4)  Wirfs.  As for me I go into the draft ala Sergeant Schultz from Hogan's Heroes, "I know nothing, nothing" B|

 

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After reading JT, I think he's evaluating them strictly off of potential of who they could/should be in sheer physical skills and truly undervaluing their "floors". 

TBH, I don't know how more people don't have Thomas as OT #1 (and @Mind Character I understand the Wills argument/wouldn't argue with it as I think he's arguably #1 as well, albeit I like Thomas more).

I personally believe that Thomas goes Top 5 and he's the prospect that goes high that every other pundit and casual fan has undervalued.

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20 hours ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

I would think that joe is getting at Becton has things that can’t be taught, Bill Callahan can teach technique, conditioning can be improved

Thing that would worry me is work ethic/ motivation. Those things are EXTREMELY difficult to overcome and change in people. If they guy is motivated and really wants it, he can certainly improve conditioning and technique just by putting a lot of time and practice into it. 

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