Sugashane Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 hour ago, dll2000 said: IF. Horstead could likely because he was an Ivy leaguer and he said he struggled with it. Not a great chance Claypool can do same with a limited offseason. And he has to beat out Horstead who played last year to get the reps behind Graham, Holtz and KC signee - forgetting his name. Horstead is a decent bottom depth guy but he's not beating out Claypool IMO. He couldn't get reps without injuries to an already horrible TE corps, and when he did he literally had only 2-3 plays that made any impact. Those three TEs lack the athleticism to stretch a defense and likely will be limited to a more traditional TE role, even Graham. Hopefully Nagy has realized that complex doesn't mean good. If he can't forge out a role for his best players then he obviously can't be trusted with handling the offense. Yes it is a limited offseason but that isn't going to be an excuse since every player has to deal with it. Nagy and his staff should be able to define roles even if they have to focus on 2 spots and 40 plays or whatever. I mean, KC's WRs and QBs aren't exactly Rhodes Scholars and they have the system down, there is no reason for a rookie to be able to grasp at least a limited role that focuses on what they do well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, Sugashane said: Horstead is a decent bottom depth guy but he's not beating out Claypool IMO. He couldn't get reps without injuries to an already horrible TE corps, and when he did he literally had only 2-3 plays that made any impact. Those three TEs lack the athleticism to stretch a defense and likely will be limited to a more traditional TE role, even Graham. Hopefully Nagy has realized that complex doesn't mean good. If he can't forge out a role for his best players then he obviously can't be trusted with handling the offense. Yes it is a limited offseason but that isn't going to be an excuse since every player has to deal with it. Nagy and his staff should be able to define roles even if they have to focus on 2 spots and 40 plays or whatever. I mean, KC's WRs and QBs aren't exactly Rhodes Scholars and they have the system down, there is no reason for a rookie to be able to grasp at least a limited role that focuses on what they do well. They've been doing it a lot longer in KC, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, G08 said: They've been doing it a lot longer in KC, though... True but here's what I mean. Mahomes mastered the offense in one year as a QB, MUCH more demanding than a WR learning a role or two. Hill as a rookie went for 61 catches, 593 yards and 6 TDs - his IQ is... questionable. Watkins went to his 3rd system in 3 years and even in an injury riddled (or in his case, usual) season filled multiple spots and had 40 catches, 519 yards, and 3 TDs - he isn't smart guy and was from a gimmick-based college offense. You see guys plug and play in complex offenses like NE, NO, PHI, etc. Jeffery fit in with PHI, Cooks went to NEs and learned it seamlessly, etc. Nagy was able to dumb the offense down for Tru to run it, he should be able to get WRs acclimated to roles, especially adding a bit more week-by-week. Edited April 23, 2020 by Sugashane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 37 minutes ago, Sugashane said: True but here's what I mean. Mahomes mastered the offense in one year as a QB, MUCH more demanding than a WR learning a role or two. Hill as a rookie went for 61 catches, 593 yards and 6 TDs - his IQ is... questionable. Watkins went to his 3rd system in 3 years and even in an injury riddled (or in his case, usual) season filled multiple spots and had 40 catches, 519 yards, and 3 TDs - he isn't smart guy and was from a gimmick-based college offense. You see guys plug and play in complex offenses like NE, NO, PHI, etc. Jeffery fit in with PHI, Cooks went to NEs and learned it seamlessly, etc. Nagy was able to dumb the offense down for Tru to run it, he should be able to get WRs acclimated to roles, especially adding a bit more week-by-week. I think Mahomes did not master the offense right away. He is a super talented guy that was dropping dimes on super talented players that were open behind an O line that was giving him time and a solid running game to boot. He was improvising a lot in year one, not reading progressions. He is natural at it. He also has an awesome rapport with Kelce and Hill. He always knows where Kelce is and Hill plays a lot of simple games using his speed. Mahomes will throw balls way short and Hill will come back to them because guys are bailing deep. When they stop bailing he does beat them deep. I think he is way better at reading defenses now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, dll2000 said: I think Mahomes did not master the offense right away. He is a super talented guy that was dropping dimes on super talented players that were open behind an O line that was giving him time and a solid running game to boot. He was improvising a lot in year one, not reading progressions. He is natural at it. He also has an awesome rapport with Kelce and Hill. He always knows where Kelce is and Hill plays a lot of simple games using his speed. Mahomes will throw balls way short and Hill will come back to them because guys are bailing deep. When they stop bailing he does beat them deep. I think he is way better at reading defenses now. Master the entire offense? No, you're right, he definitely did not right away. But he mastered what he was asked to do right away, and the responsibilities he had were more than any individual WR, year one or not. As far as improvising, that still comes to knowing the rules of the offense when plays break down. Rodgers and his WRs have been working on that in drills since he was just taking over for Favre, so when they have to they all seamlessly know how to adjust during "scramble drills" or when plays break down otherwise. Reid did a lot of work on that with McNabb, Vick, Smith, and now Mahomes. There is improvisation at hand, absolutely, but it isn't as if he was freelancing out there and just winging it. Too many people (not saying you) say that about Mahomes and KC, but it is still an orchestrated effort rather than sandlot ball. But regardless, that is my point with Mahomes. QBs are expected to know each position's routes, the progression, what happens when the play breaks down, etc. A WR can literally JUST learn the X, or slot roles, etc. A QB can't do that. So there is zero reason for a a WR not to be able to come in and contribute right away, especially we have only 2 WRs worth noting at the moment, so the Z is wide open. Someone like Claypool should be able to jump in and learn one spot and progress more as the season goes on and the playbook becomes more familiar. Learn the Z and start with 5 plays as the U. Each week advance the Z further and learn 3-5 more plays from the U. There will still be plenty of time for reps. Flip is well known for his grueling assignments that he gives to his QBs each week. WRs should be subject to this same kind of thing, but it could be more based on their roles rather than as diverse as what QBs get from him. It's not perfect by any means but these guys are getting paid the same, they can still put in the effort to learn just as if they were at Halas Hall each day. Edited April 23, 2020 by Sugashane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Yeah, a TON of KC's plays came off-script which to me is a testament to Mahomes' playmaking ability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 Brett Kollman sp? Said he was at Senior Bowl and a lot of practice was not televised. He said Pittman just embarrassed guy after guy in the one on one drills. Now one on one is not a fair drill for DBs, but still he said he dominated and really stood out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 10 minutes ago, dll2000 said: Brett Kollman sp? Said he was at Senior Bowl and a lot of practice was not televised. He said Pittman just embarrassed guy after guy in the one on one drills. Now one on one is not a fair drill for DBs, but still he said he dominated and really stood out. I'm aUSC fan and I saw a ton of Pittman. Not only is he a really good receiver but he's a great teammate and he works extremely hard. He truly loves every aspect of the game. I'm not sure he gets to 43, but he would be a home run of a pick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 8 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: I'm aUSC fan and I saw a ton of Pittman. Not only is he a really good receiver but he's a great teammate and he works extremely hard. He truly loves every aspect of the game. I'm not sure he gets to 43, but he would be a home run of a pick. I like him too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 @beardown3231 @dll2000 you don't worry about redundancy across from Allen Robinson? Who threatens the deep part of the field? I mentioned it before but I don't want to go back to Marshall/Jeffery/Bennett where defenders squatted all our routes and we had a condensed field to operate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 8 minutes ago, G08 said: @beardown3231 @dll2000 you don't worry about redundancy across from Allen Robinson? Who threatens the deep part of the field? I mentioned it before but I don't want to go back to Marshall/Jeffery/Bennett where defenders squatted all our routes and we had a condensed field to operate. Pittman can (potentially) play any WR position. Deep, middle, short. Can he bust? Yeah. But he looks the part of a potential number 1 WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 Just now, dll2000 said: Pittman can (potentially) play any WR position. Deep, middle, short. Can he bust? Yeah. But he looks the part of a potential number 1 WR. @G08 @beardown3231 On paper and in college he is Robinson with speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, dll2000 said: @G08 @beardown3231 On paper and in college he is Robinson with speed. Robinson timed better, though. I'd like this kid as a "replacement" for Robinson you know what I mean? If we go WR I want elite speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 Maybe the Robinson extension talks aren't going well and they want his replacement. To me Pittman is a more athletic Robinson, forget the combine. He plays with major attitude, loves to block, loves to play special teams and can leap like there's no tomorrow. I do worry about redundancy in a way but 43 is a tough high for Hamler considering all of the good players still left and Mims is a little like Kevin White in terms of how raw he is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 I want a potential number one, someone who is going to better ARob in a few years. Speed is a commodity that can be had later still. Pittman Claypool/Gibson/Duvernay in the 2nd or a trade down. My brother has been saying prayers that we get Pittman and trade up with a player to get Mims too. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.