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Is It Required to Complete the Catch Before Being Ruled Down by Contact?


TL-TwoWinsAway

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Interesting ending to the Lions-Falcons game.  As pointed out by Lions' forum member @Nnivolcm, if Tate hasn't established that he has completed the process of making the catch, how can he be ruled down?

A few things to note: Tate is definitely falling before he touches the ball.  By rule, he must maintain control of the ball after hitting the ground before it's ruled a catch.  Therefore, according to the rule, Tate satisfied all requirements of completing a catch, and did so in the end zone.

Rule:

ARTICLE 3. COMPLETED OR INTERCEPTED PASS

Item 1. Player Going to the Ground. A player is considered to be going to the ground if he does not remain upright long enough to demonstrate that he is clearly a runner. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

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Looking at the video now, the NFL made the correct call. Tate was touched as he was going down, and then his lower leg hit the ground before he crossed the goalline. At that point, he's down. Completing the process of the catch is irrelevant to that. Think about when a guy catches it when he's going out of bounds. He has to control it even after he's out of bounds, but it's not ruled incomplete because he could have failed to complete the catch while out of bounds.

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It's somewhat complicated. You have to fully control the ball before you can be considered down (this came into play last year in the Denver/KC game, where Hill kind of bobbled the ball and didn't control it until in the end zone, despite his knee going down at the half yard line before.) But you do not have to fully complete the process of the catch before being down. It might take 5+ yards to complete the process of the catch if you're tripping or stumbling or something, but you don't get all those yards back if you had control, were down, and touched.

@jrry32 gave a great example with the out of bounds bit. You have to control the ball in bounds, but you do not have to complete the process in bounds (often impossible to do so.) Similar with yards gained.

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3 minutes ago, DLF54927 said:

Seemed like the correct call, but it's the 10 second run-off which makes the play bizarre.

 

While highly unlikely they'd line-up correctly and run another play, it isn't impossible.

They had 8 seconds to get a play off and thats before anyone started getting up off the ground.  To get 5 offensinve lineman and 4 to 5 D-lineman to let them off the ground faster than 3 to 4seconds would be asking for a miracle.  Then the ref and players have to set the ball in the correct spot and the lineman have to get back into position and get a snap count and the ball snapped in 4 seconds would be insane.  People are not realizing that thats still a rolling 8 seconds from the point of the TD call and not 1 person has really moved off the ground yet.  The Defense are not gonna make it super easy on you getting up fast.

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10 minutes ago, FalconFan13 said:

They had 8 seconds to get a play off and thats before anyone started getting up off the ground.  To get 5 offensinve lineman and 4 to 5 D-lineman to let them off the ground faster than 3 to 4seconds would be asking for a miracle.  Then the ref and players have to set the ball in the correct spot and the lineman have to get back into position and get a snap count and the ball snapped in 4 seconds would be insane.  People are not realizing that thats still a rolling 8 seconds from the point of the TD call and not 1 person has really moved off the ground yet.  The Defense are not gonna make it super easy on you getting up fast.

They did it against the cowboys in maybe 10 seconds when they were roughly 30 yards downfield. Everyone right around the one is more than doable in 8.

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1 minute ago, DLF54927 said:

It was a bang-bang play.  I doubt there's anyone else on the ground besides Tate. 


Just went back and watched it and you are 100% correct not 1 person was down so their very well could have been a chance.  My bad i thought people were down as i thought a lineman might have been cutting a D-lineman to clear quick throwing lanes like usually happens.   But nope everyone was up and still near the los so it is a possiblity.  Although the ref still has to get the ball out of his hands and back tot he los and get lined up there plus get the snap off.   It is possible i'll admit that for sure but not easy at all it would depend how quick the ref was getting it set lol.

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1 minute ago, theuntouchable said:

They did it against the cowboys in maybe 10 seconds when they were roughly 30 yards downfield. Everyone right around the one is more than doable in 8.

Would love to see this as im not doubting it i would just like to see how that happened in 10 seconds O.o

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17 minutes ago, FalconFan13 said:

They had 8 seconds to get a play off and thats before anyone started getting up off the ground.  To get 5 offensinve lineman and 4 to 5 D-lineman to let them off the ground faster than 3 to 4seconds would be asking for a miracle.  Then the ref and players have to set the ball in the correct spot and the lineman have to get back into position and get a snap count and the ball snapped in 4 seconds would be insane.  People are not realizing that thats still a rolling 8 seconds from the point of the TD call and not 1 person has really moved off the ground yet.  The Defense are not gonna make it super easy on you getting up fast.

Not at all actually.

Last year against the Vikings Stafford threw a pass 30 yards downfield for a completion and was able to get everyone up to the line in 8 seconds (https://youtu.be/4Npcx8OaC-E?t=4m25s) to get a play off.... and that's with some linemen having to run 20 or so yards upfield to line up. Obviously on a goal line play not everyone would need to run nearly as far to line up.

Personally, I think the 10 second run off rule makes sense in THEORY but there are times when it's unfair and could screw the offense from getting another chance.  I think this is one of those times.  but that being said, if the 10 second runoff rule was eliminated it would just screw over defenses in a  similar way (giving an offense an extra chance they might not have gotten if the clock didn't stop). 

there's really no easy or obvious solution to make things fair for both the offense and defense IMO.  At least not a solution I can think of.  Maybe stop the clock but have the offense and defense start 5 to 10 yards from the line of scrimmage, start the clock, and the offense has to run to the line and hike the ball with the clock already having started before they got there?  idk.

 

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Seen the one right above it that was impressive that fat boys was hauling butt down field right after the ball was released.  They was there before the receiver even got back up.  well thats the difference between highschool and nfl quality then we just sucked back in the days i guess lol

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Right, what makes it impossible is the ref signaling TD.  

If the ref is running in to spot the ball short, then the demeanor of the entire offense , especially Stafford, is different.

IIRC, the Cowboys play took 12-13 seconds.

 

 

EDIT:  Here I'm thinking if the play was called down and the Lions were scrambling to line up and get the play off, Stafford is ready for the snap at :01 but the refs blow it dead to see if Tate gets in, then is the game still over?  That would be all sorts of ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

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Thanks for those that provided clarity to my question.  @jrry32 @Jakuvious

On another note, I don't feel that a game should end by a ref's decision to review a play.  Had they ruled Tate short, the refs would have also reviewed the play.  So, either way, they were going to lose 10 seconds, and the game would end.  That needs to be changed.

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4 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Thanks for those that provided clarity to my question.  @jrry32 @Jakuvious

On another note, I don't feel that a game should end by a ref's decision to review a play.  Had they ruled Tate short, the refs would have also reviewed the play.  So, either way, they were going to lose 10 seconds, and the game would end.  That needs to be changed.

The struggle is, there isn't really a great alternative. If you look at it from the other side, let's say there is no run off. They review the play, and rule Tate short. As a result, the Lions get to easily snap the ball for an extra play at the 1 after the review with time to substitute and call a play and line up. While they MIGHT have made it to another play without the review, they also might not have. So if the Lions get a play there, score a TD, and win, then you just have Falcons fans complaining that the Lions were gifted a play that they might not have been able to line up for without the review.

Either way, you're potentially screwing one team over. Now if we want to adjust the amount of the run off, that's another matter, but that's going to be an arbitrary amount of time regardless, honestly.

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