Official GDT - 2020 NFL Draft

[Soko]

31 minutes ago, m haynes said:

 Hey Yang  A weasel move .  You know full well you left off the 1st part of my statement, you did it on purpose or you have a problem ready.  You disagree fine say your pease but don't try being the forum board police.  Let's see your opinions, so we can look to rip your comments apart. It seems that what you here for.

Do players need to be All-Pros in order to contribute to a team?

Trey Flowers contributed. Shaq Mason contributed. Malcolm Brown contributed (as ho-hum as he was). Joe Thuney. Ted Karras. Deatrich Wise. Ja’Whuan Bentley. Sony Michel. Isaiah Wynn. Chase Winovich. Jake Bailey. This is with 4 firsts and 4 seconds in a 5 year span. 

Like I said, no grand slams (debatable with Thuney). But there have been contributions, and not every team can say they’ve got that from virtually every draft class.

[Hunter2_1]

From those 43 you picks you listed @m haynes 

- I count 18 currently on the team (might have missed one or two)

- I've got 8 being home-run hitters, out of the park picks (Mason, Flowers, Karras - i count him because we absolutely needed him last season - Thuney, Michel, Wynn, Bailey and Winovich)

 

Now I'm not sure if that's good or not, you may find league wide that's above average amount of core picks, or maybe it's not. 

 

[m haynes]

There are 10/11 players picked in the last 5 drafts that are above JAG status.  Many players he drafted played that doesn't mean they were good picks. BB drafting is average with the NFL however if you take only the last 5 year he's well below average. Last statement, I did not look it up its a observation.

Lastly, Here's what frustrate me. One TE drafted in the last 5 years!  Gronks health/age/skills/retirement and you end up unprepared, and you have the results last year.  That might have been one of the factors that cost you Brady. No weapons.

Future problem, LT one injury away from Robert Newhouse. Don't worry though, we have plenty of guards now!

[Nex_Gen]

I think we should all know by now, investing into the draft as a fan of this team will only leave you in disappointment. It's never going to be an experience. The only joy we can look forward to is hoping down the road, Bill can at least turn some of these names from left field into household ones, as that has always been the MO.

There has probably been one or two drafts on this forum that was actually ever well received - 2012 and maybe 2013. Although I do think last year's draft is going to turn out to be pretty good, the Harry selection aside. 

I'm not going to pretend I ever heard of Kyle Dugger before the proverbial "DB in the second round from no man's land" pick. But with the reports that Bill and Caserio were so infatuated with this kid that they monitored him so closely to make sure he was their first guy in such a deep draft class, I'm going to go ahead and label this the biggest boom or bust draft pick in recent memory. The kid is either going to be the next Adrian Wilson (in terms of player profile), or a complete bust who at least is a good ST'er. If he doesn't turn out closer to the Adrian Wilson side of the spectrum, it's going to be disappointing. My initial thought is, I don't even know how you evaluated this guy watching the 1980s tape of him going up against middle school football players as competition. He does have a likable maturity, toughness and no nonsense attitude about him. This is extreme TBD...

Had Asiasi and Jennings on the draft board for the Pats so it's good to see those come into fruition. Given how the rest of the draft went, I think Jennings ends up being the cream of the crop from this class. Looks like a few members on here already voicing their displeasure. He's about as well rounded a prospect to mold with high football IQ as there could be. I have no doubt in my mind Bill saw it the same. Watch the highlight of him intercepting Stidham in college. Edge/Pass Rushers don't make plays like that, especially in the NFL. Plain and simple. His leverage at the POA and in the running game is also superb. I recognize that Belichick targets these edge setting only players who in turn, cannot rush the passer to save their lives. But I think Jennings is breaking that mold. 

Asiasi was the 2nd best TE in the class IMO, albeit a lackluster one. He, unlike the rest of the class, had the most polished and pro ready tape; route timing, actually lining up in-line among other things, creating for himself, catching in traffic and opening small/quick windows for his QB. With that said, I still don't feel like it's a home run pick, but I'm just hoping for some consistency at the position and I think Asiasi is certainly capable of filling that void.

Dalton Keene, I initially had off the board, but a second glimpse shows some urgency, toughness and aggression at the catch POA that you like. He is also a "sneaky" route runner, who could benefit from good scheming and design. The upfield mentality certainly is a plus. I'm growing into it.

I'm not sure what to think of Uche. I like that he was a Wolverine and pairing him with Winovich is pretty neat. You basically see them both wrecking havoc in each other's highlighted tapes. But he never dominated, never got on the field as much as he could have and the size worries me in the way that you never see Bill pick undersized players in the front seven. Is this a sign of things to come? That's just hard to evaluate as there are simply no sample sizes under Belichick's history. His range and tackling in open space pops out however.

One of the best draft classes ever at WR. Someone to offer any team, even lunch pail guys who can't separate, and you don't spend 1 of 13 possible designations. That's pretty disappointing to me. Especially if they are planning to go into the season with Stidham at the helm. It must be a sign they like Meyers - who showed that unreal chemistry with Stidham, only for Tom to completely take his confidence away. And they probably want to see how Gunner can develop in year 2. 

[m haynes]

20 hours ago, Nex_Gen said:

I think we should all know by now, investing into the draft as a fan of this team will only leave you in disappointment. It's never going to be an experience. The only joy we can look forward to is hoping down the road, Bill can at least turn some of these names from left field into household ones, as that has always been the MO.

There has probably been one or two drafts on this forum that was actually ever well received - 2012 and maybe 2013. Although I do think last year's draft is going to turn out to be pretty good, the Harry selection aside. 

I'm not going to pretend I ever heard of Kyle Dugger before the proverbial "DB in the second round from no man's land" pick. But with the reports that Bill and Caserio were so infatuated with this kid that they monitored him so closely to make sure he was their first guy in such a deep draft class, I'm going to go ahead and label this the biggest boom or bust draft pick in recent memory. The kid is either going to be the next Adrian Wilson (in terms of player profile), or a complete bust who at least is a good ST'er. If he doesn't turn out closer to the Adrian Wilson side of the spectrum, it's going to be disappointing. My initial thought is, I don't even know how you evaluated this guy watching the 1980s tape of him going up against middle school football players as competition. He does have a likable maturity, toughness and no nonsense attitude about him. This is extreme TBD...

Had Asiasi and Jennings on the draft board for the Pats so it's good to see those come into fruition. Given how the rest of the draft went, I think Jennings ends up being the cream of the crop from this class. Looks like a few members on here already voicing their displeasure. He's about as well rounded a prospect to mold with high football IQ as there could be. I have no doubt in my mind Bill saw it the same. Watch the highlight of him intercepting Stidham in college. Edge/Pass Rushers don't make plays like that, especially in the NFL. Plain and simple. His leverage at the POA and in the running game is also superb. I recognize that Belichick targets these edge setting only players who in turn, cannot rush the passer to save their lives. But I think Jennings is breaking that mold. 

Asiasi was the 2nd best TE in the class IMO, albeit a lackluster one. He, unlike the rest of the class, had the most polished and pro ready tape; route timing, actually lining up in-line among other things, creating for himself, catching in traffic and opening small/quick windows for his QB. With that said, I still don't feel like it's a home run pick, but I'm just hoping for some consistency at the position and I think Asiasi is certainly capable of filling that void.

Dalton Keene, I initially had off the board, but a second glimpse shows some urgency, toughness and aggression at the catch POA that you like. He is also a "sneaky" route runner, who could benefit from good scheming and design. The upfield mentality certainly is a plus. I'm growing into it.

I'm not sure what to think of Uche. I like that he was a Wolverine and pairing him with Winovich is pretty neat. You basically see them both wrecking havoc in each other's highlighted tapes. But he never dominated, never got on the field as much as he could have and the size worries me in the way that you never see Bill pick undersized players in the front seven. Is this a sign of things to come? That's just hard to evaluate as there are simply no sample sizes under Belichick's history. His range and tackling in open space pops out however.

One of the best draft classes ever at WR. Someone to offer any team, even lunch pail guys who can't separate, and you don't spend 1 of 13 possible designations. That's pretty disappointing to me. Especially if they are planning to go into the season with Stidham at the helm. It must be a sign they like Meyers - who showed that unreal chemistry with Stidham, only for Tom to completely take his confidence away. And they probably want to see how Gunner can develop in year 2. 

Quality info here. I agree and disagree on some things.

Quote

Asiasi was the 2nd best TE in the class

I disagree. I thought Kmet was #1 however I changed my mind. He can't block to save his life. Watched the games tapes. Asiasi  game tape was so much better. IMO Pats drafted the #1 TE in the draft.  

Dalton Keene,   Love the pick had him as a favorite in the draft.

Quote

you don't spend 1 of 13 possible designations. That's pretty disappointing to me.

I agree here, this is the most frustrating part of the Pats draft.  They desperately need , WRs and take zero. They take a (ST) LB that will never see the field that you could of sign as a UDFA or a 100 more like him.  KJ Hill is there and you pass. Go or bad you take a chance on his resume. 

I now understand why they didn't draft WR late, after watching the UDFA signings.  The have signed a 100 ALL WORLD WRs,  the only problem they average, 5'7 150lbs.

The other players comments, I have made my opinion known in other posts.

[DoleINGout]

1 hour ago, m haynes said:

They take a (ST) LB that will never see the field

I think Cassh could be more than just a STer. But...

 

1 hour ago, m haynes said:

that you could of sign as a UDFA

This is the part that gets me. Story of Belichick's drafting history. Fix this, (the reaches), and he is an above average drafter or possibly even "very good". Which tells you how many reaches he has made...

[Elky]

For all the hate this draft gets, let's not hope it's the absomination that was 2017 where we passed up Chris Godwin and Kareem Hunt for Derek RIvers and Tony Garcia. A backup edge rusher was our best pick that year.

[m haynes]

2 hours ago, Elky said:

Derek RIvers

This is the reason the Dugger pick frustrates me.  Small school star does it translate to the next level.  The SR bowl they say he held his own. Well that says to me that there nothing special. He might be a good player however why take the chance with so many quality players sitting there.  The players that have done it on a big stage against top college teams.

Two  players  I will watch going forward. EDGE Yetur Gross-Matos, Penn State and S Antoine Winfield Jr., Minnesota.

[Hunter2_1]

11 hours ago, Elky said:

For all the hate this draft gets, let's not hope it's the absomination that was 2017 where we passed up Chris Godwin and Kareem Hunt for Derek RIvers and Tony Garcia. A backup edge rusher was our best pick that year.

the only pick still on the team, as well.

[Hunter2_1]

On 27/04/2020 at 8:40 PM, Nex_Gen said:

I think we should all know by now, investing into the draft as a fan of this team will only leave you in disappointment. It's never going to be an experience. The only joy we can look forward to is hoping down the road, Bill can at least turn some of these names from left field into household ones, as that has always been the MO.

There has probably been one or two drafts on this forum that was actually ever well received - 2012 and maybe 2013. Although I do think last year's draft is going to turn out to be pretty good, the Harry selection aside. 

I'm not going to pretend I ever heard of Kyle Dugger before the proverbial "DB in the second round from no man's land" pick. But with the reports that Bill and Caserio were so infatuated with this kid that they monitored him so closely to make sure he was their first guy in such a deep draft class, I'm going to go ahead and label this the biggest boom or bust draft pick in recent memory. The kid is either going to be the next Adrian Wilson (in terms of player profile), or a complete bust who at least is a good ST'er. If he doesn't turn out closer to the Adrian Wilson side of the spectrum, it's going to be disappointing. My initial thought is, I don't even know how you evaluated this guy watching the 1980s tape of him going up against middle school football players as competition. He does have a likable maturity, toughness and no nonsense attitude about him. This is extreme TBD...

Had Asiasi and Jennings on the draft board for the Pats so it's good to see those come into fruition. Given how the rest of the draft went, I think Jennings ends up being the cream of the crop from this class. Looks like a few members on here already voicing their displeasure. He's about as well rounded a prospect to mold with high football IQ as there could be. I have no doubt in my mind Bill saw it the same. Watch the highlight of him intercepting Stidham in college. Edge/Pass Rushers don't make plays like that, especially in the NFL. Plain and simple. His leverage at the POA and in the running game is also superb. I recognize that Belichick targets these edge setting only players who in turn, cannot rush the passer to save their lives. But I think Jennings is breaking that mold. 

Asiasi was the 2nd best TE in the class IMO, albeit a lackluster one. He, unlike the rest of the class, had the most polished and pro ready tape; route timing, actually lining up in-line among other things, creating for himself, catching in traffic and opening small/quick windows for his QB. With that said, I still don't feel like it's a home run pick, but I'm just hoping for some consistency at the position and I think Asiasi is certainly capable of filling that void.

Dalton Keene, I initially had off the board, but a second glimpse shows some urgency, toughness and aggression at the catch POA that you like. He is also a "sneaky" route runner, who could benefit from good scheming and design. The upfield mentality certainly is a plus. I'm growing into it.

I'm not sure what to think of Uche. I like that he was a Wolverine and pairing him with Winovich is pretty neat. You basically see them both wrecking havoc in each other's highlighted tapes. But he never dominated, never got on the field as much as he could have and the size worries me in the way that you never see Bill pick undersized players in the front seven. Is this a sign of things to come? That's just hard to evaluate as there are simply no sample sizes under Belichick's history. His range and tackling in open space pops out however.

One of the best draft classes ever at WR. Someone to offer any team, even lunch pail guys who can't separate, and you don't spend 1 of 13 possible designations. That's pretty disappointing to me. Especially if they are planning to go into the season with Stidham at the helm. It must be a sign they like Meyers - who showed that unreal chemistry with Stidham, only for Tom to completely take his confidence away. And they probably want to see how Gunner can develop in year 2. 

Good post.

I'm not sure on Jennings, I need to watch more. I rewatched Alablama vs Michigan though, and Jennings came across inconsistent. There would be series where he was always setting the edge and around the ball, followed by a series where he gets pushed back 8 yards off the ball by the RT. Sometimes when the play wasn't to his side, he'd take the play off, but then sometimes he'd recover and bust a nut getting over there. I'm sure a month under BB will sort him out.

Uche is my favorite pick actually, even though your reservations about his size and time on field is right. When he did play, he had surprising speed and power. The bend is elite too. In that same game mentioned above, he sat Wills down on his A so bad....:D I hope his lack of height doesn't compromise him as an edge rusher, because he has genuine speed to power. 

[Nex_Gen]

7 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Good post.

I'm not sure on Jennings, I need to watch more. I rewatched Alablama vs Michigan though, and Jennings came across inconsistent. There would be series where he was always setting the edge and around the ball, followed by a series where he gets pushed back 8 yards off the ball by the RT. Sometimes when the play wasn't to his side, he'd take the play off, but then sometimes he'd recover and bust a nut getting over there. I'm sure a month under BB will sort him out.

Uche is my favorite pick actually, even though your reservations about his size and time on field is right. When he did play, he had surprising speed and power. The bend is elite too. In that same game mentioned above, he sat Wills down on his A so bad....:D I hope his lack of height doesn't compromise him as an edge rusher, because he has genuine speed to power. 

The league is moving more towards undersized, hybrid type players. Uche certainly has the profile to succeed. Its just hard to gauge as Bill has always preferred the massive thumpers who first and foremost,  can hold leverage at the POA, set the edge, and contain the QB and not much else. Uche isn't exactly that so this is going against conventional wisdom. Going to be interesting to see Bill flip the formula and start to follow the trend. Wish he would do the same for the WR position. The talent there is so good now, there are certainly more plug in players than Bill stubbornly admits to see. Might see Dugger being worked around the front seven of the defense as well given his range and willingness to get scrappy. 

[Hunter2_1]

Yeah I believe we see Dugger in close quite often.

 

What he tried doing with Richards but with an actual talent

[m haynes]

On 4/29/2020 at 11:27 AM, Nex_Gen said:

Wish he would do the same for the WR position.

Drives me crazy. His WR philosophy is based on the big WR era.  He has taken speed WRs however there from schools like Bentley college or the WR that's 4th on their college team depth chart or a team that ran the ball 80% of the time.

159. Patriots: K Justin Rohrwasser, Marshall ------------- 161. Buccaneers: WR Tyler Johnson, Minnesota -----   Frigging Really!!!

204. Patriots: LB Cassh Maluia, Wyoming  ---------------  220. Chargers: WR K.J. Hill, Ohio State ----  All Time leading WR in Ohio ST history. I'm shocked he went that low.

Side note    Benito Jones, saw an article, Pats wanted to sign (priority FA) him after the draft. I still can't understand for the life of me, a ST undersized LB.  You get them after the draft!!!!!

Edited April 30, 2020 by m haynes

[DoleINGout]

Just now, DoleINGout said:

 

 

[DoleINGout]