1.26 - Jordan Love [QB; Utah State] - QB1

[beekay414]

3 minutes ago, Leader said:

Well, hasnt been a whole lot of winning now has there?  Doh! 

[Eternal]

12 hours ago, Joe said:

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Eternal
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[Eternal]

12 hours ago, Joe said:

 

Davante Adams is much better WR than Driver was, Jennings was a rookie, and you had complete and utter JAG's behind the both of them. Lazard may not be a WR2 but he's no JAG, Cobb has proven he still has something left in the tank so not a JAG there, MVS is going through his James Jones up-n-down phase, and ESB has stepped up from time to time though I wouldn't argue with you if you felt he was a JAG. I could buy the argument that Rodgers had a slightly better TE unit.

That was year 3 for Greg Jennings actually. He broke out with Favre in his second year in 2007. Jennings had 1200+ yards the first year he was with Rodgers.

Davante is no doubt better then Driver.

[Zycho32]

Love's not ready right now. He probably needs an extra year, maybe two, if he's going to learn in the classroom. That probably means an extra season or two of Rodgers, which is fine. It means the same ol' issues as before, but we seem to need to dwell in the comfortable. As for what he is, his ceiling is probably '89 Majkowski in terms of performance, or if you want, Jeff Garcia after the reigns of Montana and Young. That part's fine. You can live with that, provided you fix things elsewhere.

And that's my only say on the subject.

[spilltray]

7 hours ago, Zycho32 said:

Love's not ready right now. He probably needs an extra year, maybe two, if he's going to learn in the classroom. That probably means an extra season or two of Rodgers, which is fine. It means the same ol' issues as before, but we seem to need to dwell in the comfortable. As for what he is, his ceiling is probably '89 Majkowski in terms of performance, or if you want, Jeff Garcia after the reigns of Montana and Young. That part's fine. You can live with that, provided you fix things elsewhere.

And that's my only say on the subject.

Not going to happen. The cap situation pretty much means you are losing a bunch of key pieces after this season. Either you deal Rodgers now and re stock or you watch the path the Steelers are on.

[Zycho32]

16 minutes ago, spilltray said:

Not going to happen. The cap situation pretty much means you are losing a bunch of key pieces after this season. Either you deal Rodgers now and re stock or you watch the path the Steelers are on.

Been walking that path since his Megadeal.

[Mazrimiv]

21 hours ago, Joe said:

Davante Adams is much better WR than Driver was, Jennings was a rookie, and you had complete and utter JAG's behind the both of them. Lazard may not be a WR2 but he's no JAG, Cobb has proven he still has something left in the tank so not a JAG there, MVS is going through his James Jones up-n-down phase, and ESB has stepped up from time to time though I wouldn't argue with you if you felt he was a JAG. I could buy the argument that Rodgers had a slightly better TE unit.

The group of receivers Love would inherit if he took over as starter today would include the best WR Rodgers ever played with, which is Adams.  Peak Jordy is in the conversation, but I'd give the nod to Adams.  Unfortunately, from there things go downhill quick with Lazard, MVS, Cobb, ESB and I'm not sure what exactly GB has at TE right now.  Lazard is half way through his 4th year and has never hit 40 rec or 500 yards in a season.  This season is not likely to be his first.  That is the very definition of JAG.  We all want to believe MVS can elevate his game above JAG level, but are still waiting.  Cobb is on track for 50-60 rec and ~500 yards.  Definitely in JAG territory, but at least he's a JAG with a good connection with Rodgers.  ESB hasn't elevated his game to JAG level.  He's a PS level player.  With the Tonyan injury, the TE group is a complete unknown.

Heading into 2008, Driver was coming off 4 consecutive 1000+ yard seasons, and would post another in Rodgers first year as starter.  Jennings was entering year 3, and 2008 would be one of the best seasons of his career.  James Jones was entering year two after a 600+ yard rookie season.  The team had just spent early(ish) picks on Jordy and Finley. As Rodgers took over as starter in 2008, the team already had the receiving group the offense would ride through the SB.  Does anyone think the same can be said about Love and the current group of receivers?  I don't think so. 

It seems pretty clear (obvious?) to me that Rodgers inherited a far superior group of receiver which helped set him up for success far more than the current group would do for Love were he to step in as starter today.

[vegas492]

On 11/14/2021 at 7:44 AM, spilltray said:

Not going to happen. The cap situation pretty much means you are losing a bunch of key pieces after this season. Either you deal Rodgers now and re stock or you watch the path the Steelers are on.

After seeing that Love wasn't quite ready for Prime Time, and after seeing Aaron play without Bakh, Jaire, Z and Myers, I would prefer to re-sign Rodgers and move on from some other guys in order to be the most competitive next year.

It is our current defense that leads me to believe that we can have a very good defense without some "star" players.  And Rodgers will keep that offense humming.  

We would have a good 3-5 year window with Rodgers under center.  If he can commit to that.

[Joe]

1 minute ago, vegas492 said:

After seeing that Love wasn't quite ready for Prime Time, and after seeing Aaron play without Bakh, Jaire, Z and Myers, I would prefer to re-sign Rodgers and move on from some other guys in order to be the most competitive next year.

It is our current defense that leads me to believe that we can have a very good defense without some "star" players.  And Rodgers will keep that offense humming.  

We would have a good 3-5 year window with Rodgers under center.  If he can commit to that.

You had me until 3-5 years. I think another 2 will be just fine because a legit heir apparent will show themselves in the 2023 draft and I honestly think Aaron will be running on fumes in 2024. As for moving on from other players, I'm not so sure it'll be easy to let Adams walk at this point. If you're keeping both Rodgers and Adams there will have to be some sort of tandem approach to both of their contract situations - obviously, a Super Bowl win makes this whole thing a lot easier as success tends to breed success.

Let's look at the rest of this, however. Defensively, Z has done nothing this year and he HAS to understand that's going to severely impact his contract; wouldn't be surprised if he either walked, retired, or came back on a dirt cheap contract so that would solve one issue. Preston Smith will definitely have a re-worked deal as without those two we really only have Gary as a pass rush; Garvin is still trying to develop but I doubt he's a long-term solution - we'll have to draft multiple players at that position and the 2022 draft doesn't have much of 'em, which complicates that picture. Does Whitney Mercilus come back? The secondary is OBVIOUSLY set IMO and you could probably find a replacement for King/Sullivan early Day 3. 

Offensively, Cobb's contract would certainly have to be significantly revised and MVS can walk at this point given that we're probably going to have to start drafting WR's again anyway. Let's say hypothetically that Adams and Lazard are both with the team next year as your proven products. You would then have Cobb who's on the 16th or 17th hole of his career and Amari Rodgers who has shown very little thus far - though he's a rookie of course. Then who do you have? MVS will probably be too expensive so he's gone, Funchess has found virtually every way NOT to be a part of the team, Malik Taylor is a JAG, all of those PS guys are JAGs, and ESB has been a disappointment. It's almost imperative that you find a way to re-sign Adams as we all know Lazard is not a WR1 I'm sorry to say. Nevermind the slew of ?'s at TE, though Charlie Kolar could be a Day 3 steal IMO. 

 

I say all this because I think one should look at this situation a little more optimistically simply because we don't have to blow anything up or move on from Aaron to a grossly inferior player and start over. In other words, 2022 and 2023 do not have to be rebuilding years because not only does the 2022 draft not shape up well for us, but because we've got so many good pieces in place as is, primarily on defense.

[vegas492]

7 minutes ago, Joe said:

You had me until 3-5 years.

If Rodgers wants to play till he is 45, he can do it in this system if he commits to training his legs every off season.

The big word there?  If...  It is on Rodgers.

He's got 2 left in him, easily.  But there's more there, if he wants it.

Agree that we can let guys go and be just fine.  

Except....

Adams.  If Rodgers comes back, he's gotta recruit 'Vante.  We need that one threat at WR.  We can backfill the rest.

We can win without Adams, we've proven that.  But I don't think we can win deep in the playoffs without a WR like him.  He draws too much attention.  Attention that goes elsewhere if we trot out MVS, Lazard, young Rogers and whomever else.

We can certainly do well by moving on from other defensive guys, too.  Though I'd love to see this defense with a fresh and healthy Z.  That would make me happy.

[thrILL!]

41 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

If Rodgers wants to play till he is 45, he can do it in this system if he commits to training his legs every off season.

The big word there?  If...  It is on Rodgers.

He's got 2 left in him, easily.  But there's more there, if he wants it.

Rodgers’ play this season shouldn't have anyone convinced he can play until then.  He’s nowhere near his MVP form last season and has looked closer to the 2 years before that than he has to 2020. Anything is possible but Tom Brady is clearly the outlier for QB’s playing in their 40’s. 

[packfanfb]

On 11/14/2021 at 8:44 AM, spilltray said:

Not going to happen. The cap situation pretty much means you are losing a bunch of key pieces after this season. Either you deal Rodgers now and re stock or you watch the path the Steelers are on.

I mean, you realize that extending Rodgers and Adams to deals that are team-friendly cap-wise for the next 2 years basically solves the "cap situation" everyone is clamoring about. It's literally not a big deal...at all.

The cap is going to sky rocket in 2 years absent a breakout of COVID-20. 

[packfanfb]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

After seeing that Love wasn't quite ready for Prime Time, and after seeing Aaron play without Bakh, Jaire, Z and Myers, I would prefer to re-sign Rodgers and move on from some other guys in order to be the most competitive next year.

First thing I've seen on this thread in a while that makes sense. This is the only right answer. 

[GHARMON9]

Given our current situation how do you guys today feel about the selection of Love?

Do you think it could have been used elsewhere or the threat of job security enough to make Rodgers play at an MVP level enough to justify the pick and still possibly have our next QB worth it?

 

At the time I understood the why but I wouldn't have gone that route. 

[VonKarman]

48 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

I mean, you realize that extending Rodgers and Adams to deals that are team-friendly cap-wise for the next 2 years basically solves the "cap situation" everyone is clamoring about. It's literally not a big deal...at all.

No, it doesn't.