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1.26 - Jordan Love [QB; Utah State]


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Posted (edited)

The streets are littered with guys that had an NFL arm. The Hall of Fame has it's share of guys who had below average arm talent. Give me enough reps and I can throw a ball into a net from 15 yards. Not gonna know until live reps whether he has the panic of Hundley or the cool of Joe. How well he can process information amidst the chaos will tell the story

Edited by cannondale
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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, cannondale said:

The streets are littered with guys that had an NFL arm. The Hall of Fame has it's share of guys who had below average arm talent. Give me enough reps and I can throw a ball into a net from 15 yards. Not gonna know until live reps whether he has the panic of Hundley or the cool of Joe. How well he can process information amidst the chaos will tell the story

Yeah, and today is a sunny day in the Sahara. Since I imagine there is no-one here that doesn't know who Ryan Leaf is, or Jamarcus Russell, you get the 'Captain Obvious' bumper sticker.

Edited by OneTwoSixFive
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

Yeah, and today is a sunny day in the Sahara. Since I imagine there is no-one here that doesn't know who Ryan Leaf is, or Jamarcus Russel, you get the Captain Obvious bumper sticker.

Thanks for the sticker. You'd be surprised how little some fans know. Especially since the definition of playing football now  resides on a big screen tv.  When talking about Rodgers injury and I said hit your knee with a hammer and try to throw, some said they never threw a football. On another forum I had a fan insist the trade value chart was a myth and not used by GM's. How many fans that know its sunny in the Sahara have actually stood on the 10 yard line and understand the peripheral vision needed to see pylon to pylon, much less a running lane that exists for a fraction of time to the far right when tracking WR's per the play progressions or due to rules of not throwing shallow late to the sidelines, especially when all defenders are within 6 yards of the goal line. Still you have the Sahara experts post a still photo representing a millisecond of time and scream about an open WR or running lane. So yea, the longer you're around, the more you realize how little some fans know.

Not everyone knows that it's obvious a First Round QB is "worthy of grooming as a future No. 1 ?"  Is water also wet ?

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18 hours ago, R T said:

I'll ask @Joe, he has an advanced scouting report on both.  

Like @CWood21said, let's talk about the topic, not other posters. I know you disagree with the numerous and educated sources I've referenced, but...

3 hours ago, NFLGURU said:

Keep in mind the video shows the tools at the college level.  You can probably make a video of most QBs that look really favorable.  This one shows what he's capable of, but he won't get away with some of this stuff at the next level.

This is basically the condensed version of what I've been saying all along. So many of us are pissed at Rodgers that we'll go right ahead and claim Love to be the next best thing despite acknowledging that he's boom-or-bust based on the positives we see on the video, and the negatives we see in scouting reports and his 2019 stats FWIW. We often forget how spoilt we are because we went from one HOF QB in Favre to another in Rodgers almost seamlessly. 

3 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

If he didn't have some warts he wouldn't have been available for the Packers to move up in the first and take him for just an extra 4th round pick, so he isn't a sure-fire guy (virtually no college QBs are), but he sure looks like he has enough about him to be worth trying to groom as the future no.1

All QB prospects have warts of some sort and people keep forgetting why we moved up to select him specifically: it was to replace Aaron Rodgers after the 2020 season knowing that Jordan Love probably wasn't ready to play immediately. Couple that with the fact that the rumor mill suggested that Indy was very interested in Love and that kinda forced our hand to trade up to get him, rather than stand pat where we were for fear that Indy would trade up just ahead of us to select him; that was the consensus amongst us after the pick was made regardless of how we felt about the guy.

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I have no idea whether Love will end up being any good.  I think there's a chance, and he's got enough arm to be so. Obviously smart guys like Brees and Brady without rockets have been great, and guys with rockets but without good mental processing fail.  Guys with rockets and good processing, but without accuracy, also fail.  Whether or not Love has the mental processing and the accuracy to become good, who knows?  

I don't think he has a rocket, though?  Good arm, yes; but exceptionally good, no?  

I sure wish we had some standard benchmarks for that, though.  Just like real NFL players don't run 3-cones around stationary predictable targets, and a good 3-cone doesn't guarantee success, the combine still has that benchmark, and it's useful.  I'd like a batch of standard benchmark throws for QB's.  Throw straight, left, and right from the pocket.  Throw straight, left, and right while running to the right.  While running to the left.  Having velocity and spin-rate readings would be interesting, and being able to track how tweaks over time impact.  My guess is Love would presently show above-average arm on those benchmarks, but would not show a top-end rocket.  That mechanics- and footwork-tweaks might bump his arm strength is possible.  

More important than velocity, though, is time-to-target. I think Love, like Rodgers, might score very high in terms of delivery quickness?  The real key isn't the velocity of a ball once in flight; more important is how quickly the ball gets to where it's going, and the amount of time involved in step/load/throw probably is more determinative than the actual time-in-flight?  In baseball they quantify catcher pop-times; how long it takes to get the ball out of glove and perhaps pop from the crouch often is more determinative than the actual velocity on the throw once released.  Same may apply for QB's.  My amateur glance at limited video suggests that Love has a super quick delivery, even if his balls once thrown don't zip as fast as Favre or Rodgers.  

heh, I'd like benchmarks for that, too.  

 

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19 hours ago, cannondale said:

How many fans that know its sunny in the Sahara have actually stood on the 10 yard line and understand the peripheral vision needed to see pylon to pylon

You make it sound like you have to do that to understand, when many other things allow that understanding. If you are trout fishing from a boat you need good peripheral vision to see the tiny dimples a fish makes when surfacing for a fly within a large area of rippling water (and if you are good, you can cast ahead of the fishes direction of travel for a greatly increased likelihood of a take).

Alternatively, since I was around 9 years old I have walked around reading a book as I walk. Since I'm close to 70 now and don't hit postboxes, lamposts, cars or other people, you can assume I have good peripheral vision (the trick is to hold the book up a bit and allow peripheral vision to scan over the top of the book).

I have never played American Football (I live in the UK) but I don't need to have, to understand the concept.

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2 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

You make it sound like you have to do that to understand, when many other things allow that understanding. If you are trout fishing from a boat you need good peripheral vision to see the tiny dimples a fish makes when surfacing for a fly within a large area of rippling water (and if you are good, you can cast ahead of the fishes direction of travel for a greatly increased likelihood of a take).

Alternatively, since I was around 9 years old I have walked around reading a book as I walk. Since I'm close to 70 now and don't hit postboxes, lamposts, cars or other people, you can assume I have good peripheral vision (the trick is to hold the book up a bit and allow peripheral vision to scan over the top of the book).

I have never played American Football (I live in the UK) but I don't need to have, to understand the concept.

Enough said. 

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10 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Great...Love sucks. 

Captain checkdown. 

It would help to have some WR in camp but as is known, this is a RPO quick hitter with YAC and DFB type of offense (I made that last one up).  

12 knows this is the year he has the best leverage but if JLove had more experience, he might not feel so confident letting him take all the offseason reps.  I'm glad he's getting them now in spite of all of the friction created by the situation. 

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30 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Great...Love sucks. 

Got to learn how to crawl before you learn to walk. Right?

I think its the right strategy to be honest. Let him get the easy throws figured out and build some confidence. Can worry about the harder throws as that happens.

Also, I really think that those type of throws will work fine with Jones and Dillon driving the running game. If Love starts this season we have to hope that his first few games can be controlled by our D and running game. If we are forced to play from behind though, its going to be trial by fire.

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1 hour ago, fistfullofbeer said:

Got to learn how to crawl before you learn to walk. Right?

I think its the right strategy to be honest. Let him get the easy throws figured out and build some confidence. Can worry about the harder throws as that happens.

Also, I really think that those type of throws will work fine with Jones and Dillon driving the running game. If Love starts this season we have to hope that his first few games can be controlled by our D and running game. If we are forced to play from behind though, its going to be trial by fire.

I'm actually encouraged by the check down talk and I don't understand why reporters wouldn't. It's a sign that he's going through his progressions, a huge knock on him last year was that he was always looking for the big play and playing hero ball. The fact that the complete opposite is being reported out of what people are seeing, is a sign that he's learning and he's being coached. 

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2 hours ago, Refugee said:

Captain checkdown. 

It would help to have some WR in camp but as is known, this is a RPO quick hitter with YAC and DFB type of offense (I made that last one up).  

See this is what I was talking about in another thread: Jordan Love can find success(at least early on) if he's not expected to be Rodgers and is more of a game manager QB than anything else; again, at least early on.

2 hours ago, fistfullofbeer said:

Got to learn how to crawl before you learn to walk. Right?

I think its the right strategy to be honest. Let him get the easy throws figured out and build some confidence. Can worry about the harder throws as that happens.

It's been well-documented that his deep ball accuracy is a weakness and he's not much better on 10-15 yard routes either though his arm isn't questioned. Not sure that necessarily needs to build confidence, yet the logic given here is still very helpful due to its re-enforcement nature. It also helps develop his vision which proved to be a concern, but I seriously doubt he'll be Brett Hundley and he clearly doesn't have the mental issues Russell and Leaf had. 

In other words and as others have said: rely on the strong running game behind an elite OL, a reliable TE, big and physical receivers, and a defense that looks to be more aggressive up front with tons of speed in the secondary.

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so I was looking at the Packs team stats for 2020 and something looked off to me

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/gb/green-bay-packers

Rodgers gets credit for throwing for 4299 yards last year ... but 2267 of those were yards after the catch

so Rodgers actually threw for 2032 yards which for 372 completions brings his yards per pass average down to 5.47

He was efficient, but hardly a miraculous year by a QB ... Love should be just fine in this offense now that it's balanced with a good run game

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2 hours ago, Joe said:

See this is what I was talking about in another thread: Jordan Love can find success(at least early on) if he's not expected to be Rodgers and is more of a game manager QB than anything else; again, at least early on.

It's been well-documented that his deep ball accuracy is a weakness and he's not much better on 10-15 yard routes either though his arm isn't questioned. Not sure that necessarily needs to build confidence, yet the logic given here is still very helpful due to its re-enforcement nature. It also helps develop his vision which proved to be a concern, but I seriously doubt he'll be Brett Hundley and he clearly doesn't have the mental issues Russell and Leaf had. 

In other words and as others have said: rely on the strong running game behind an elite OL, a reliable TE, big and physical receivers, and a defense that looks to be more aggressive up front with tons of speed in the secondary.

I don’t buy the deep ball accuracy thing. I think he has a relatively accurate deep ball with nice touch. Arm talent (accuracy, velocity, touch, throwing off platform) is not an issue with Love. Some of the best pure arm talent you’ll ever see. It’s all about the mental side of the game with him.

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