Mazrimiv Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 41 minutes ago, incognito_man said: "Nick Collins was a three-year starter at free safety (2002-2004) and the captain of one of the most successful football teams in Wildcats history" https://bcuathletics.com/honors/hall-of-fame/nick-collins/17 So you're saying TT had a very convincing argument? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 The more I think about Love's performance against the Chiefs the less concerned I am about his poor day. He stood no chance with an offensive line in him that seemed unprepared for what the Chiefs threw at them. Adams and Love weren't on the same page all day .. no chemistry because they never worked together. The Chiefs also kind of found something and have been playing great defense this past month or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkfan191 Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 6 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said: The more I think about Love's performance against the Chiefs the less concerned I am about his poor day. He stood no chance with an offensive line in him that seemed unprepared for what the Chiefs threw at them. Adams and Love weren't on the same page all day .. no chemistry because they never worked together. The Chiefs also kind of found something and have been playing great defense this past month or so. Its fascinating how people can watch that game and have two completely different opinions about it. I feel the exact opposite, that game was extremely concerning for me as a Packers fan, and that JT O'Sullivan video earlier in the thread is only making it worse. The kids biggest knock coming out was accuracy and decision making and while that video highlights his decision making wasn't all that bad, his accuracy was atrocious. He hasn't shown me anything in the 3 games that I've watched that screams special to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 1 hour ago, StatKing said: Its fascinating how people can watch that game and have two completely different opinions about it. I feel the exact opposite, that game was extremely concerning for me as a Packers fan, and that JT O'Sullivan video earlier in the thread is only making it worse. The kids biggest knock coming out was accuracy and decision making and while that video highlights his decision making wasn't all that bad, his accuracy was atrocious. He hasn't shown me anything in the 3 games that I've watched that screams special to me. I never watched the JT O video but I swore the idea was that it put a positive light on it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 30 minutes ago, Norm said: I never watched the JT O video but I swore the idea was that it put a positive light on it It was a fairly positive video, to summarize it for you, most of his analysis came down to "Love made the right read but his pass was inaccurate because of X or Y". Usually most of it was due to poor footwork which is a huge red flag to me because at this point the kid should have that kind of stuff down after being in the system for almost 2 years. I'm a firm believer that when it comes to QB you either have it or you dont, especially these days when even mid tier college programs are built to be football factories with all the coaches they have now. I want him to be good but the fact that he's had 5 years of QB coaches drilling into him to square his shoulders up with his target and he still struggles to do it concerns me greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnypackerfan Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, StatKing said: It was a fairly positive video, to summarize it for you, most of his analysis came down to "Love made the right read but his pass was inaccurate because of X or Y". Usually most of it was due to poor footwork which is a huge red flag to me because at this point the kid should have that kind of stuff down after being in the system for almost 2 years. I'm a firm believer that when it comes to QB you either have it or you dont, especially these days when even mid tier college programs are built to be football factories with all the coaches they have now. I want him to be good but the fact that he's had 5 years of QB coaches drilling into him to square his shoulders up with his target and he still struggles to do it concerns me greatly. Then you would have also disliked Rodgers at this same stage. According to McCarthy, it was Rodgers footwork that they really worked on for three years in his quarterback camp. Rodgers put in a ton of work and greatly improved in this area. We'll see if Love can do the same thing. The jury is still out on this and yes this must improve. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, minnypackerfan said: Then you would have also disliked Rodgers at this same stage. According to McCarthy, it was Rodgers footwork that they really worked on for three years in his quarterback camp. Rodgers put in a ton of work and greatly improved in this area. We'll see if Love can do the same thing. The jury is still out on this and yes this must improve. Apples and oranges my friend. As prospects the two couldn't have been any more different. One was touted as a big arm project while the other was considered a possible number one overall pick that slid in the draft due to other teams needs and character concerns. I don't personally think McCarthy or sitting for 3 years had anything to do with Rodgers turning out to be great. Like I said I'm a firm believer that QBs either have it or they dont, and Rodgers just did. I'm willing to give Love a full season regardless of winning next year as long as it's clear he's not the reason we lose games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnypackerfan Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, StatKing said: Apples and oranges my friend. As prospects the two couldn't have been any more different. One was touted as a big arm project while the other was considered a possible number one overall pick that slid in the draft due to other teams needs and character concerns. I don't personally think McCarthy or sitting for 3 years had anything to do with Rodgers turning out to be great. Like I said I'm a firm believer that QBs either have it or they dont, and Rodgers just did. I'm willing to give Love a full season regardless of winning next year as long as it's clear he's not the reason we lose games. Points noted. Rodgers is a bit of an overachiever and worked extremely hard to improve on his issues coming out of college. I personally liked both Rodgers and Love coming out of college for different reasons. I was not sure Rodger's had the "it" factor, especially after watching his performance against the biggest opponent that year...USC. He had 4 chances from inside the 10 yard line to win the game and the Pac 10 title....and he failed. He had guys open but tried to be too fine. His performance at the end against Tampa Bay reminded me of that performance. But that was just one game. His performance has caused us to win many more over the years. Rodgers is one of the best ever. His ability to read defenses and improvise changes to pass protection and routes at the line of scrimmage is amazing. Not sure Love will ever get to that level. Of course, only a few quarterbacks like Brady and Manning did it as well. We sure are spoiled with Favre and Rodgers. The key for Love might be retooling some of the play calling to play toward his strengths versus Rodgers strengths. They did the same thing when Rodgers took over for Favre. Should be interesting watching this happen. I really think he needs 2 more years of schooling before I can judge him a failure or success. Rodgers is the one that is going to make the decision whether or not to stay. They want him...does he want them. If he decides to leave we got Love whether we want him or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad gluckman Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 3 hours ago, minnypackerfan said: Then you would have also disliked Rodgers at this same stage. According to McCarthy, it was Rodgers footwork that they really worked on for three years in his quarterback camp. Rodgers put in a ton of work and greatly improved in this area. We'll see if Love can do the same thing. The jury is still out on this and yes this must improve. I see so many people make this argument that Rodgers wasn't good until year 3 so it's OK Love looked so bad. You could make this same argument for every failed QB in the NFL. Bottom line is Love looked really bad. Can't read the defense and inaccurate is a really bad combo. Now I'm willing to give him somewhat of a pass because he was thrust into the starting role and KCs defense looks good, but man he was just all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, Brad gluckman said: I see so many people make this argument that Rodgers wasn't good until year 3 so it's OK Love looked so bad. You could make this same argument for every failed QB in the NFL. Bottom line is Love looked really bad. Can't read the defense and inaccurate is a really bad combo. Now I'm willing to give him somewhat of a pass because he was thrust into the starting role and KCs defense looks good, but man he was just all over the place. First start he faced relentless blitzing that was getting past the O line. How much of that do you think he saw in training camp ? A tough lesson.........................learned ? We will find out. Rookie QB starters tend to get heavily blitzed because it takes a while to understand how to beat it, and until they show they can, the other side will bring it. I don't put as much weight on that first start as you obviously do - lets see how he is after say, 10 starts. Edited December 7, 2021 by OneTwoSixFive 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 9 hours ago, Brad gluckman said: I see so many people make this argument that Rodgers wasn't good until year 3 so it's OK Love looked so bad. You could make this same argument for every failed QB in the NFL. Bottom line is Love looked really bad. Can't read the defense and inaccurate is a really bad combo. Now I'm willing to give him somewhat of a pass because he was thrust into the starting role and KCs defense looks good, but man he was just all over the place. It's par for the course here. If you're unable to use your brain or eyes, simply bring up a random stat such as what last years rookies did in their first start as if it's an apples to apples comparison. The same far fetched experts have been doing the same for another QB on the roster in a negative fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said: First start he faced relentless blitzing that was getting past the O line. How much of that do you think he saw in training camp ? A tough lesson.........................learned ? We will find out. Rookie QB starters tend to get heavily blitzed because it takes a while to understand how to beat it, and until they show they can, the other side will bring it. I don't put as much weight on that first start as you obviously do - lets see how he is after say, 10 starts. He can only be judged based on what we've seen and so far and it hasn't looked good. Thats okay, being critical of him doesn't mean we think he's going to be an outright bust. I keep seeing people bring up rookie QBs as if he is one. He's a 2nd year player not a rookie. The Chiefs weren't hiding their blitz whatsoever and he still had trouble picking it up, good QBs check into great plays when a situation like that presents itself over and over again. I doubt he has the ability to check into those plays but thats entirely on him, he should understand the offense enough at this point he shouldn't have to beg Lafleur to let him check out of run plays on 3rd and 2. The kid has potential, when he sets up the ball comes out of his hand extremely fluid and I've yet to see him woefully underthrow a reciever due to lack of arm strength. I just need to see one game, preseason or regular season where he looks like he's in control. Edited December 7, 2021 by StatKing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 3 hours ago, StatKing said: He can only be judged based on what we've seen and so far and it hasn't looked good. Thats okay, being critical of him doesn't mean we think he's going to be an outright bust. I keep seeing people bring up rookie QBs as if he is one. He's a 2nd year player not a rookie. The Chiefs weren't hiding their blitz whatsoever and he still had trouble picking it up, good QBs check into great plays when a situation like that presents itself over and over again. I doubt he has the ability to check into those plays but thats entirely on him, he should understand the offense enough at this point he shouldn't have to beg Lafleur to let him check out of run plays on 3rd and 2. The kid has potential, when he sets up the ball comes out of his hand extremely fluid and I've yet to see him woefully underthrow a reciever due to lack of arm strength. I just need to see one game, preseason or regular season where he looks like he's in control. He's not a rookie, but he has far less game experience than every single rookie that has started games this season. He might have more class time, but not game action and reps. He's played in two preseason games in two years, got mop up duty in two games this year and logged one start this year. By design he didn't even suit up for a game in 2020. I think the Packers had this guy on the three years plan of learning the game, but may have to jump him up a year if 12 wants out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 4 hours ago, StatKing said: He can only be judged based on what we've seen and so far and it hasn't looked good Nonsense. He can be judged on whatever inputs we want. Additionally, he hasn't looked bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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