Draft Day Two Thread

[DuvalsKing]

8 minutes ago, pwny said:

Again, what positions has he spent more on to address? Because three 2nds and two 4ths is significant.

If they drafted no wide receiver this draft would you be happy with what’s currently on the roster? If your answer is no I’d ask why not? We’ve selected significant firepower at wideout right? Because of these 3-2s, and 2-4s right? 

Edited April 24, 2020 by DuvalsKing

[.Buzz]

2 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said:

If they drafted no wide receiver this draft would you be happy with what’s currently on the roster? If your answer is no I’d ask why not? We’ve selected significant firepower at wideout right? Because of this 3-2s, and 2-4s right? 

So because they made bad selections/missed that means they haven't used plenty of draft capital?

[pwny]

4 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said:

If they drafted no wide receiver this draft would you be happy with what’s currently on the roster? If your answer is no I’d ask why not? We’ve selected significant firepower at wideout right? Because of these 3-2s, and 2-4s right? 

Selecting bad players doesn’t mean they didn’t spend capital.

Further, you’re arguing that they won’t spend any resources on WR because they never do, despite the fact that they currently have four picks in rounds that they have spent on WR before.

Your argument is jumping all over the place and contradicting itself at every turn.

[DuvalsKing]

7 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

So because they made bad selections/missed that means they haven't used plenty of draft capital?

What are you talking about this ain’t hard to follow.. they don’t put a premium on top notch talent at the skill position of wide out. When they do draft it it’s always at developmental hope we can coach the talent out of them. It’s never draft the stud and see what he can do. We’ve been throwing picks at wideout from round 2-4 for years at wide out the college production rarely translates into on the field production because they severely neglect the position year after year.. with guys. But in season everyone is crying about wideouts not getting separation. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by DuvalsKing

[DuvalsKing]

4 minutes ago, pwny said:

Selecting bad players doesn’t mean they didn’t spend capital.

Further, you’re arguing that they won’t spend any resources on WR because they never do, despite the fact that they currently have four picks in rounds that they have spent on WR before.

Your argument is jumping all over the place and contradicting itself at every turn.

I never said they spent resources I said the resources that they do spend are on dart throws. 

[pwny]

1 minute ago, DuvalsKing said:

I never said they spent resources I said the resources that they do spend are on dart throws. 

No, you specifically said that " They sound like they are happy with receiver" and "Their MO sticking to the script Caldwell has never been a big on putting much emphasis on wideout." when it was suggested they might spend a second and third on a WR. That is you literally saying that he doesn't spend those types of picks at WR.

[.Buzz]

9 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said:

What are you talking about this ain’t hard to follow.. they don’t put a premium on top notch talent at the skill position of wide out. When they do draft it it’s always at developmental hope we can coach the talent out of them. It’s never draft the stud and see what he can do. We’ve been throwing picks at wideout from round 2-4 for years at wide out the college production rarely translates into on the field production because they severely neglect the position year after year.. with guys. But in season everyone is crying about wideouts not getting separation. 

You're moving the needle consistently on what you said man. 

Regardless, to the point you're now arguing, if you think the team must take a WR in round 1 to "put a value" on the position I strongly disagree. But to each their own.

[pwny]

1 minute ago, DuvalsKing said:

What are you talking about this ain’t hard to follow.. they don’t put a premium on top notch talent at the skill position of wide out. When they do draft it it’s always at developmental hope we can coach the talent out of them. It’s never draft the stud and see what he can do. We’ve been throwing picks at wideout from round 2-4 for years at wide out the college production rarely translates into n the field production because they severely neglect the position year after year.. with guys. But in season everyone is crying about wideouts not getting separation. 

You are all over the place, dude.

You said that you couldn't see them addressing WR heavily. Specifically saying "They sound like they are happy with receiver"

You then said that the reason for you believing they won't spend a second or third on a WR is because Caldwell never spends those types of resources on a WR. Specifically saying "Their MO sticking to the script Caldwell has never been a big on putting much emphasis on wideout."

Then it was pointed out that he has--in fact--repeatedly spent middle round picks on WR.

At that point, you shifted to saying that drafting players there means "you immediately start talking about players you’re not expecting to produce first year." This has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not he would draft a WR today.

It was pointed out that you're changing the argument, at which point you stated "I never said they spent resources I said the resources that they do spend are on dart throws." Again, this has nothing to do with whether or not they would spend a pick on a WR today, of which you've already indicated that they are dart throws today.

 

If he repeatedly only makes "dart throw" selections WR, and today is when the dart throws happen, how are you arguing that it doesn't fit his MO to make a dart throw?

[.Buzz]

Lot of love for Cleveland.

What are everyone's thoughts? Sounds like more of a technician/pass blocker than mauler like we usually like.

[Tugboat]

The three 2nds, sure...that's some investment in the position.  Kinda hard to really count Day 3 picks as any kind of real big investment though.  Those things are basically just flyers.  Though Dave does often seem to act like he's actually plugging holes with them.

Dave has been here for 7 drafts + a 1st round.  Obviously Coughlin was a factor in some of those years, but even if we take away those "1st round picks" of Fournette/Taven/Allen...It's like 21 picks in Day 1 and 2 that can be generally attributed to Dave to date?  And he's spent...3 of them on WRs, and zero 1sts.  That's not nothing...but it's not exactly much either.  Plinking away in the 4th and 5th rounds doesn't really cut it as real "investment" for me.

 

That said...i wouldn't expect a for sure WR pick today.  Though i wouldn't rule it out either.

[pwny]

Just now, .Buzz said:

Lot of love for Cleveland.

What are everyone's thoughts? Sounds like more of a technician/pass blocker than mauler like we usually like.

I prefer that a left tackle be a technician. You can add a bit of strength in the weight room in 95% of cases without any issue, but it's much harder to teach hand placement and footwork to slow down elite rushers

[Tugboat]

2 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Lot of love for Cleveland.

What are everyone's thoughts? Sounds like more of a technician/pass blocker than mauler like we usually like.

Have to remember, Dave's first ever pick was pillowhands Joeckel, who was...more of a technician than a mauler.  So i don't think it's out of the question that the "preferences" may have shifted a bit.  Especially true if Tony is exerting as much influence as i kinda suspect.  I'd imagine Ezra Cleveland probably grades out really well athletically.  He moves really well, tested well at the combine from what i recall, and he doesn't exactly have that big meaty "mauler" body to lug around.  So on athletic analytics, i could see a world where Tony is banging the table for him.  Could be a factor at least.

[JaguarCrazy2832]

Mims/Higgins would be great adds. Who else do you guys want? Jones/Cleveland?

[DuvalsKing]

2 minutes ago, pwny said:

You are all over the place, dude.

You said that you couldn't see them addressing WR heavily. Specifically saying "They sound like they are happy with receiver"

You then said that the reason for you believing they won't spend a second or third on a WR is because Caldwell never spends those types of resources on a WR. Specifically saying "Their MO sticking to the script Caldwell has never been a big on putting much emphasis on wideout."

Then it was pointed out that he has--in fact--repeatedly spent middle round picks on WR.

At that point, you shifted to saying that drafting players there means "you immediately start talking about players you’re not expecting to produce first year." This has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not he would draft a WR today.

It was pointed out that you're changing the argument, at which point you stated "I never said they spent resources I said the resources that they do spend are on dart throws." Again, this has nothing to do with whether or not they would spend a pick on a WR today, of which you've already indicated that they are dart throws today.

 

If he repeatedly only makes "dart throw" selections WR, and today is when the dart throws happen, how are you arguing that it doesn't fit his MO to make a dart throw?

You’re asking me questions and have yet answer the questions that I asked you previously. Taking a shot at a wide receiver in rounds 2-7.. isn’t addressing the situation if year after year you use the same tactic but it hasn’t resulted in any viable picks that you can look at outside of Chark and Allen. So year after year we’re stuck playing the lottery. You may consider drafting wide out rounds 2-7 as an investment. I don’t this teams ability to evaluate talent at the skill position wide out and running back should be in question because they have yet to produce any after the many draft picks spent and free agents signed in 8 yrs what do you have? Chark? Fournette wasn’t really Caldwell’s pick so we can’t use that.. Talk to me.

[.Buzz]

1 minute ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

Mims/Higgins would be great adds. Who else do you guys want? Jones/Cleveland?

I like Shenault (gotta be approved medically though) and Pittman a lot too. Hamler is a nice change of pace guy too (although his hands worry me a little).

But yeah, gotta help Minshew. OL or WR. Maybe RB but I'd prefer to wait.