vegas492 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 52 minutes ago, St Vince said: But in this case the thunder is faster than the lightning lol. The Jones we have now is not the Jones that ran at the Combine. He's quicker, smoother and more explosive. He's got great football quickness and speed right now. And I love how he runs, he kind of glides out there and then can hit another gear when needed. It's fun for me to watch, because I can't remember GB having a runner like him in my lifetime. Best I got to see was Ahman. And he just had a different, more physical style. I'm pretty excited to see the pairing. Especially if it means we can motion Jones out and see who goes with him. In the highlight clips, he absolutely feasted on linebackers who tried to cover him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, vegas492 said: I'm pretty excited to see the pairing. Especially if it means we can motion Jones out and see who goes with him. In the highlight clips, he absolutely feasted on linebackers who tried to cover him. indeed. If the defense puts LBs on field to handle run, Jones can feast in passing game If defense puts an extra CB on the field to handle passing game, gash em with Dillon. I know that's overly simplistic, but having the ability to make the DC wrong no matter what he chooses - is a handy tool for a QB who runs the show at the LOS. Edited May 6, 2020 by Shanedorf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Vince Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 59 minutes ago, vegas492 said: The Jones we have now is not the Jones that ran at the Combine. He's quicker, smoother and more explosive. He's got great football quickness and speed right now. And I love how he runs, he kind of glides out there and then can hit another gear when needed. It's fun for me to watch, because I can't remember GB having a runner like him in my lifetime. Best I got to see was Ahman. And he just had a different, more physical style. I'm pretty excited to see the pairing. Especially if it means we can motion Jones out and see who goes with him. In the highlight clips, he absolutely feasted on linebackers who tried to cover him. His Combine numbers were better than Jones, that what i meant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 You're literally talking pairing, as in both on field at same time, right? As opposed to Jones gets series 1 and 2; then Dillon takes series 3....) I'm really curious how that might work. I can recall Packers using a running back and a fullback, but I can't ever remember them really using two running backs. If BOTH guys are good running the ball; and if BOTH guys are effective pass-catch options, and if BOTH have speed to run outside as well as in, and if BOTH have variably not-that-bad blocking capacity, really interesting concept. Either guy might receive a handoff, so fakes might be more deceptive? *IF* either guy has outside speed, the defense can't be kinda sure that any run will be inside the tackles? Perhaps either one can swing out for a screen or a short pass? Perhaps you can't even be sure which is staying in for pass-protection and blitz, versus which is getting a pitch or running a reverse or doing something else? Perhaps the play doesn't even specify, and the defense dictates which guy needs to pick up pressure and which is free to find an open flat? Perhaps the motion might be such that either guy might block for the other? It's kinda fun to envision what a creative offensive coordinator might be able to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Shanedorf said: indeed. If the defense puts LBs on field to handle run, Jones can feast in passing game If defense puts an extra CB on the field to handle passing game, gash em with Dillon. I know that's overly simplistic, but having the ability to make the DC wrong no matter what he chooses - is a handy tool for a QB who runs the show at the LOS. Not that I really get that much into it, but..... I do find myself thinking about how to utilize Jones and Dillon together, and then Deguara. With motion stuff, like jet sweeps, Jones is a weapon. Then you can flank him out like a WR and run some play action stuff. 5 OL. 1 QB. 2 RB. Deguara, Adams, Lazard. Or throw Jace in there for Deguara, either case I think both those dudes can be a fullback, H-back, tight end, or flex out at WR. I know DC's will figure out tendencies and stuff, but I can see going 4 wide in that set. See who it pulls out...or in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 1 hour ago, St Vince said: His Combine numbers were better than Jones, that what i meant. I hadn't looked, but that doesn't surprise me. 2nd round pick versus 5'th rounder? I just credit Jones with transforming his body and running style over the years. Swear he's long line faster and short space quicker now than he was as a rookie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransientTexan Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 On 5/5/2020 at 10:13 AM, ThatJerkDave said: Probably not. His production was too spread out. Lacy was putting up 1300 total yards and 12 TDs over those two seasons. The guy made the Pro Bowl as a rookie. He was 8th in the league in rushing and 3rd in TDs. The next season he was 7th in rushing and 3rd in TDs. Cook's third season is equal to Lacy's rookie and sophomore campaigns. If Cook has a repeat of 2019, then retires, sure he is worth the 2nd round pick, IMO. Who are our best 2nd rounders? Greg Jennings, Chad Clifton, Jordy Nelson? Who are our worst 2nd rounders? Pat Lee, Josh Jones, Jason Spriggs? Lacy is somewhere in the middle. You would like to have more. But he was a very productive short term player. And not a complete bust. Especially when you consider the position he plays. Seeing as nobody here seems interesting in signing RB’s to a 2nd contract even if they played well on their rookie deal, you can’t be upset by not getting any production out of him beyond that. Most rookies don’t explode in their 1st year. If you rearrange the years in which he was productive, he’d be statistically indistinguishable from any other RB that is seen as a “hit”. 2013- 15g, 63yd/g, 0.33td/g 2014- 5g (IR) 78yd/g, 0td/g 2015- 15g, 96yd/g, 0.73td/g 2016- 16g, 98yd/g, 0.81td/g The only thing you can be upset about is getting a 6th-round compensatory pick instead of the 4th or 5th round compensatory pick (assuming the team wouldn’t have canceled out the pick with a signing of their own) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 (edited) Rookie RBs drafted in 2nd round:http://pfref.com/tiny/CjLOD 2nd year RBs drafted in 2nd round: http://pfref.com/tiny/BiJRK 3rd year RBs... http://pfref.com/tiny/YjlIJ 4th year RBs... http://pfref.com/tiny/EOBwd Players break out in different years. Lacy was definitely unusual in having his best seasons his first 2, but it's not unheard of either. Edited May 6, 2020 by skibrett15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 1 hour ago, skibrett15 said: Rookie RBs drafted in 2nd round:http://pfref.com/tiny/CjLOD 2nd year RBs drafted in 2nd round: http://pfref.com/tiny/BiJRK 3rd year RBs... http://pfref.com/tiny/YjlIJ 4th year RBs... http://pfref.com/tiny/EOBwd Players break out in different years. Lacy was definitely unusual in having his best seasons his first 2, but it's not unheard of either. I was like holy **** how are so many of those so recent until I saw your filter haha. I still like Dillon a lot, I just didn't want to piss work a running back here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransientTexan Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, skibrett15 said: Rookie RBs drafted in 2nd round:http://pfref.com/tiny/CjLOD 2nd year RBs drafted in 2nd round: http://pfref.com/tiny/BiJRK 3rd year RBs... http://pfref.com/tiny/YjlIJ 4th year RBs... http://pfref.com/tiny/EOBwd Players break out in different years. Lacy was definitely unusual in having his best seasons his first 2, but it's not unheard of either. Just because it *could* happen doesn't mean it's as likely. And the sequence of events probably affects the narrative fans hold in their head more than it should. At the end of the day, the point is that the totality of his production on the rookie contract was very high compared to most in that draft position. Here are the RB's besides Lacy drafted from within +/-8 spots of the 57 slot between 2005 and 2019 (57 slot was picked for another project, but it's close enough to Lacy's spot in the late 2nd round): Eric Shelton, Maurice Jones-Drew, Kenny Irons, Chris Henry, Brian Leonard, Brandon Jackson, Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, LeSean McCoy, Toby Gerhart, Ben Tate, Montario Hardesty, Shane Vereen, Mikel Leshoure, Daniel Thomas, Isaiah Pead, LaMichael James, Montee Ball, Christine Michael, Bishop Sankey, Jeremy Hill, Carlos Hyde, Ameer Abdullah, Derrius Guice, Miles Sanders. 25 players, and I would only have 4 (MJD,Rice,McCoy,Hyde) that are even in the same neighborhood of production as Lacy career-wise, much less rookie-contract-wise. Maybe 5 if Miles Sanders keeps up the pace. Lacy's easily in the top-20% of outcomes for a late-2nd-round RB. The median outcome is more like a Toby Gerhart or Ameer Abdullah. And believe it or not, even if you exclude everyone's 1st 4 years, only 8 (32%) of those players outperformed Lacy. maybe 10 (40%) max if you assume future production from Miles Sanders and Derrius Guice. Edited May 7, 2020 by TransientTexan year range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deps Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 While it is an imperfect measure, Lacy also sits in the top 30 for his draft in pro football reference's Career AV and in the top 20 for AV for the drafting team. If you were to redraft that year based on what we know now, he is probably still a second rounder (I think a few of the guys below him on this measure probably go higher, but not enough to knock him out of the second round). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 5 hours ago, TransientTexan said: Just because it *could* happen doesn't mean it's as likely. And the sequence of events probably affects the narrative fans hold in their head more than it should. At the end of the day, the point is that the totality of his production on the rookie contract was very high compared to most in that draft position. Here are the RB's besides Lacy drafted from within +/-8 spots of the 57 slot between 2005 and 2019 (57 slot was picked for another project, but it's close enough to Lacy's spot in the late 2nd round): Eric Shelton, Maurice Jones-Drew, Kenny Irons, Chris Henry, Brian Leonard, Brandon Jackson, Ray Rice, Kevin Smith, LeSean McCoy, Toby Gerhart, Ben Tate, Montario Hardesty, Shane Vereen, Mikel Leshoure, Daniel Thomas, Isaiah Pead, LaMichael James, Montee Ball, Christine Michael, Bishop Sankey, Jeremy Hill, Carlos Hyde, Ameer Abdullah, Derrius Guice, Miles Sanders. 25 players, and I would only have 4 (MJD,Rice,McCoy,Hyde) that are even in the same neighborhood of production as Lacy career-wise, much less rookie-contract-wise. Maybe 5 if Miles Sanders keeps up the pace. Lacy's easily in the top-20% of outcomes for a late-2nd-round RB. The median outcome is more like a Toby Gerhart or Ameer Abdullah. And believe it or not, even if you exclude everyone's 1st 4 years, only 8 (32%) of those players outperformed Lacy. maybe 10 (40%) max if you assume future production from Miles Sanders and Derrius Guice. my post wasn't meant to be a rag on lacy, just to show some of the other players for which to compare him. I think i've come around to the idea that I don't like taking RBs in the 2nd, but for a 2nd round RB, he was good. Esp since they got some really good seasons out of him and didn't have to suffer through any pathetic ones on a 2nd expensive contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmo2012 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 16 hours ago, Norm said: I was like holy **** how are so many of those so recent until I saw your filter haha. I still like Dillon a lot, I just didn't want to piss work a running back here Dillon will be a 1000 yard rusher, Is that worth a 2nd of course. Will the Packers resign Jones? I bet they hope so but they do have an option now. The Packers went QB, RB, and TE. How many of you would have said great draft if it was WR, RB, and TE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 1 minute ago, gizmo2012 said: Dillon will be a 1000 yard rusher, Is that worth a 2nd of course. Will the Packers resign Jones? I bet they hope so but they do have an option now. The Packers went QB, RB, and TE. How many of you would have said great draft if it was WR, RB, and TE? I'm not bothered by the QB part myself. But I'm sure plenty would be happy that are upset now for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitnhope Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 22 minutes ago, gizmo2012 said: Dillon will be a 1000 yard rusher, Is that worth a 2nd of course. Will the Packers resign Jones? I bet they hope so but they do have an option now. The Packers went QB, RB, and TE. How many of you would have said great draft if it was WR, RB, and TE? I would have been disappointed with a WR,RB, TE first three rounds. Even worse "value" than our draft was. Drop an OT and/or DT in there and things would look better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.