3.94 - Josiah Deguara [TE; Cincinnati]

[Arthur Penske]

20 hours ago, Joe said:

Deguara had a 7th round grade on him. C'mon...this is Richard Rodgers all over again, except this guy will actually have a role in which he'll be able to produce despite it not necessarily showing up in the box score.

 

How so?

[CWood21]

6 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

How so?

Because that's what the draft website he uses said.

[coachbuns]

1 hour ago, Joe said:

He had a 7th round grade from TDN and all the other experts. Sorry if my reporting that upsets you.

 

Some of you guys have some REALLY thin skin around here. Y'all should work for the White House...

Not upset, just sometimes stuff gets put out that one wonders "who cares".  But now that I think about it, that's a lot of the stuff on this forum and that's ok.

[Uffdaswede]

On the idea that player X is an Xth round talent, that is obviously fine for grundy-bundling discussions before the draft. After the draft, it doesn’t make sense.

When someone puts their fishing boat up for sale and one person offers $50 and another $1,000, the low bidder can’t complain the boat wasn’t worth $1,000. It obviously was to the person who busted out $1,000.

[Lodestar]

8 minutes ago, Uffdaswede said:

On the idea that player X is an Xth round talent, that is obviously fine for grundy-bundling discussions before the draft. After the draft, it doesn’t make sense.

When someone puts their fishing boat up for sale and one person offers $50 and another $1,000, the low bidder can’t complain the boat wasn’t worth $1,000. It obviously was to the person who busted out $1,000.

Liked for "grundy-bundling"

And I would like it again if I could

[PossibleCabbage]

With there being no pro days for scouting folks to hang out and create groupthink, having one team have a big difference from someone else on a grade on a player is not weird at all.

I mean, last year early in the draft process the draft sites had like a 4th-6th round grade on Darnell Savage, then some of the big media people started getting tips from their scouting buddies and he rockets up the media boards, but still not as high as he actually goes in the draft.

[MacReady]

45 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

With there being no pro days for scouting folks to hang out and create groupthink, having one team have a big difference from someone else on a grade on a player is not weird at all.

I mean, last year early in the draft process the draft sites had like a 4th-6th round grade on Darnell Savage, then some of the big media people started getting tips from their scouting buddies and he rockets up the media boards, but still not as high as he actually goes in the draft.

Yep.  It’s not the first time the Packers have picked someone who nobody knew about until like a week before the draft.  Savage, Collins, Harrell... It doesn’t always work out, but with the virus, this year was nothing like it would otherwise have been. Saying Josiah was a 7th round draft pick is the epitome of stupidity and hubris.  

[PossibleCabbage]

People in the media lost their GD minds when the Seahawks took Bruce Irvin in 2012.  But wouldn't have done so had they taken "higher rated" guys like Quinten Coples, Shea McClellin, or Nick Perry.  Irvin is still in the league.

[HighCalebR]

1 minute ago, PossibleCabbage said:

People in the media lost their GD minds when the Seahawks took Bruce Irvin in 2012.  But wouldn't have done so had they taken "higher rated" guys like Quinten Coples, Shea McClellin, or Nick Perry.  Irvin is still in the league.

Perry not being in the league AT ALL is wild.

[MacReady]

I mean if the Jaguars can draft Tyson Alualu 10th overall and have even Tyson Alualu say he was shocked, I think people can STFU about a third round pick at the end of the round.

[craig]

23 hours ago, vegas492 said:

Man, I remember enough of Henderson out of the backfield in that true west coast stuff.... 405 targets, 320 catches, 2,409 yards.  14 TD's.

For context....Vitale had 12 targets, 7 receptions last year. 97 yards.  0 TD.

The Vitale bit is interesting, and makes me wonder with Deguara.  Last offseason there was all this talk about how MLF loved that kind of stuff, and early camp Vitale was getting talked up as a guy making lots of catches.  And then 16-games of season comes with 7 receptions.  He just didn't get used as a target, and we know he wasn't very effective as a run blocker.  

So, I wonder why?  And how that projects for Deguara?  Some considerations:

• Vitale only played 170 snaps on offense, <16% of the offensive snaps.  Only 3 games with >15 snaps, none with 20.  
• He had some injuries.  Not sure how it might have gone had he been healthy start to finish.  Hard to get really into the rhythm if playing on a bad ankle, and hard for QB to look for you much if you're not involved in many plays?  
• Not sure how much the limited usage was that he wasn't healthy, versus that he wasn't a good blocker?
•  versus simply that MLF wanted to use other guys with different capacities.
• As any of that relates to Deguara, obviously he'll need to be healthy to play; and obviously his blocking will need to be a lot better than Vitale's to play a lot.  But even then, it's hard to guess how many snaps he'll get or in how many he'll be more than a 4th target that never gets the ball anyway?  

 

[Patriotplayer90]

25 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

I mean if the Jaguars can draft Tyson Alualu 10th overall and have even Tyson Alualu say he was shocked, I think people can STFU about a third round pick at the end of the round.

Because everyone should hold their organization to standards of one with a 32% winning percentage since 2010.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Patriotplayer90

[MrBobGray]

1 hour ago, craig said:

The Vitale bit is interesting, and makes me wonder with Deguara.  Last offseason there was all this talk about how MLF loved that kind of stuff, and early camp Vitale was getting talked up as a guy making lots of catches.  And then 16-games of season comes with 7 receptions.  He just didn't get used as a target, and we know he wasn't very effective as a run blocker.  

So, I wonder why?  And how that projects for Deguara?  Some considerations:

• Vitale only played 170 snaps on offense, <16% of the offensive snaps.  Only 3 games with >15 snaps, none with 20.  
• He had some injuries.  Not sure how it might have gone had he been healthy start to finish.  Hard to get really into the rhythm if playing on a bad ankle, and hard for QB to look for you much if you're not involved in many plays?  
• Not sure how much the limited usage was that he wasn't healthy, versus that he wasn't a good blocker?
•  versus simply that MLF wanted to use other guys with different capacities.
• As any of that relates to Deguara, obviously he'll need to be healthy to play; and obviously his blocking will need to be a lot better than Vitale's to play a lot.  But even then, it's hard to guess how many snaps he'll get or in how many he'll be more than a 4th target that never gets the ball anyway?  

 

Vitale was bad.  He was a poor blocker at best, he's explosive but not particularly dynamic, and he doesn't have natural receiving ability in space.  I just re-watched the week 13 49ers game to see MVS, and Vitale whiffed a block to a comical degree, and his guy immediately made the tackle.  Like, he went for the cut and the guy just went around him like he wasn't there.

Vitale has a niche, but it's not this one.  He's a better fit for the Patriots scheme, where he'll get some carries, some easy catches, and a lot less move blocks.  

[Deps]

On 5/13/2020 at 1:24 PM, Joe said:

Deguara had a 7th round grade on him. C'mon...this is Richard Rodgers all over again, except this guy will actually have a role in which he'll be able to produce despite it not necessarily showing up in the box score.

 

Rodgers was one of those picks that I still don't really understand (big wide receiver who couldn't run or jump as well as most tight ends anyway once he bulked up) but still feel bizarrely compelled to defend. If you redraft that year he probably goes closer to where the Packers picked him than where he was projected and has somehow ended up being the second best tight end picked that year behind Ebron. 

As far as the seventh-round grade, as other posters and I have noted before, guys with the H-back label got drafted higher than projected this year. It wasn't just Deguara. Could be that skillset was simply misvalued this year in relation to how NFL teams saw it. I can understand opportunity cost arguments involving positions not picked, but the draft projections for tight ends after Kmet were pretty far off this year and would have been moreso if their contacts didn't apparently tip them off to the fact that most had Asiasi way too low.

[craig]

1 hour ago, MrBobGray said:

Vitale was bad.  He was a poor blocker at best, he's explosive but not particularly dynamic, and he doesn't have natural receiving ability in space.  I just re-watched the week 13 49ers game to see MVS, and Vitale whiffed a block to a comical degree, and his guy immediately made the tackle.  Like, he went for the cut and the guy just went around him like he wasn't there.

Vitale has a niche, but it's not this one.  He's a better fit for the Patriots scheme, where he'll get some carries, some easy catches, and a lot less move blocks.  

Thanks for notes, MrBob.  Yeah, it's kind of amazing what a problematic blocker he was.  Lots of reasons to figure Deguara has a shot to be a much better player.