The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[NCOUGHMAN]

In a recent article by Mike Sando of The Athletic, he polled 50 NFL coaches, decision-makers and general managers as to who are the best quarterbacks in the league. He had them rank the quarterbacks by tiers and then ranked them from 1-34.

Carr came in at No. 15, which is up five spots from where he finished last year. Here is what one personnel director had to say about Carr:

“I think what you saw last year will be the absolute best you see Derek Carr play. I don’t know if he has any more room to grow. They have had a strong run game, they had some weapons on the outside. He played with the most confidence I’ve seen him play in his entire career. Is that sustainable?”

Can’t post links for some reason but thought this was interesting esp coming from coaches etc

[drfrey13]

2 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

In a recent article by Mike Sando of The Athletic, he polled 50 NFL coaches, decision-makers and general managers as to who are the best quarterbacks in the league. He had them rank the quarterbacks by tiers and then ranked them from 1-34.

Carr came in at No. 15, which is up five spots from where he finished last year. Here is what one personnel director had to say about Carr:

“I think what you saw last year will be the absolute best you see Derek Carr play. I don’t know if he has any more room to grow. They have had a strong run game, they had some weapons on the outside. He played with the most confidence I’ve seen him play in his entire career. Is that sustainable?”

Can’t post links for some reason but thought this was interesting esp coming from coaches etc

I believe he can still improve.  There was a lot you could see in games where he makes the same poor decisions repeatedly.  Not the wrong decision but not the best decision.  The question is will he improve.  If he can slow the clock in his head and trust the players around him there is definite room for improvement.  If he also stops trying to be Brady and just have some fun I think you might see improvement for the entire team.  If they can fix the red-zone issues you will see the team play with a lot more confidence.   There is just a missing piece.  The team looked loose and confident with MM under center.  Not that we were better or worse just different.  It was just fun to watch.

[S&B Bleeder]

1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

I believe he can still improve.  There was a lot you could see in games where he makes the same poor decisions repeatedly.  Not the wrong decision but not the best decision.  The question is will he improve.  If he can slow the clock in his head and trust the players around him there is definite room for improvement.  If he also stops trying to be Brady and just have some fun I think you might see improvement for the entire team.  If they can fix the red-zone issues you will see the team play with a lot more confidence.   There is just a missing piece.  The team looked loose and confident with MM under center.  Not that we were better or worse just different.  It was just fun to watch.

Does Carr need to improve?  I'm not sure.  Does the team need to improve?  Without a doubt.  When they get better he'll get better. 

One thing of interest.  I believe we have the best 1, 2 QB combo in the league.  If Carr goes down the D for the other team has to adjust to a whole new skill set from Mariota.  Do I want that to happen.....NO, but sh*t happens.  If Mariota shows his ability again like he did in the Charger game he's highly tradable.

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, S&B Bleeder said:

Does Carr need to improve?  I'm not sure.  Does the team need to improve?  Without a doubt.  When they get better he'll get better. 

One thing of interest.  I believe we have the best 1, 2 QB combo in the league.  If Carr goes down the D for the other team has to adjust to a whole new skill set from Mariota.  Do I want that to happen.....NO, but sh*t happens.  If Mariota shows his ability again like he did in the Charger game he's highly tradable.

Not sure if carr needs to improve? Wow 

[drfrey13]

3 hours ago, S&B Bleeder said:

Does Carr need to improve?  I'm not sure.  Does the team need to improve?  Without a doubt.  When they get better he'll get better. 

One thing of interest.  I believe we have the best 1, 2 QB combo in the league.  If Carr goes down the D for the other team has to adjust to a whole new skill set from Mariota.  Do I want that to happen.....NO, but sh*t happens.  If Mariota shows his ability again like he did in the Charger game he's highly tradable.

MM is easily a top 3 backup.  As far as Carr improving I would say yes.  There is not a single player on the team that I believe has reached their full potential.  This even includes Waller who is a top 3 player at his position.  I have said this before that Carr is not the problem but I question if he is the solution.  If Carr played like Wilson, Rodgers, and Brady then you can argue that he does not need to improve but he is no where near that level.  I guarantee Josh Allen is trying to improve this year and he blew Carr away this year.

[MrOaktown_56]

7 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

In a recent article by Mike Sando of The Athletic, he polled 50 NFL coaches, decision-makers and general managers as to who are the best quarterbacks in the league. He had them rank the quarterbacks by tiers and then ranked them from 1-34.

Carr came in at No. 15, which is up five spots from where he finished last year. Here is what one personnel director had to say about Carr:

“I think what you saw last year will be the absolute best you see Derek Carr play. I don’t know if he has any more room to grow. They have had a strong run game, they had some weapons on the outside. He played with the most confidence I’ve seen him play in his entire career. Is that sustainable?”

Can’t post links for some reason but thought this was interesting esp coming from coaches etc

It wasn't a coach. That was a personnel director.

Here's some other quotes from the same article:

“Maybe he has figured it out, or he has no more butt left to rip any more. Maybe he went to Las Vegas and lost his ***. This guy played great against Kansas City last year, which he had not done before, and if he was available, you’d have 10 teams lining up for him.”

Head coach

“He’s extremely accurate, and he’s got as beautiful of a stroke as you’re going to find,” a head coach said. “Most people will say if the pocket is tight, that is probably when his play descends, but you’re not going to find too many passers that are cleaner than Derek, especially when he is in rhythm. He has enough creativity. Derek is a sharp guy. He is really, really smart. He can command a lot for that team.”

Another one:

The knock is still that, you pressure him and he’s going to get sped up and he’s going to look anxious at times, but you look at the production and you say, ‘OK, if they could have played functional defense, what’s the record look like?’ ”

 

[MrOaktown_56]

I am definitely in the camp that he can and needs to improve, but I am definitely on the pro-Carr side of the board, which is in line with most of the personnel execs and almost every metric (DVOA/passer rating/YPA, etc).

[drfrey13]

7 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

It wasn't a coach. That was a personnel director.

Here's some other quotes from the same article:

“Maybe he has figured it out, or he has no more butt left to rip any more. Maybe he went to Las Vegas and lost his ***. This guy played great against Kansas City last year, which he had not done before, and if he was available, you’d have 10 teams lining up for him.”

Head coach

“He’s extremely accurate, and he’s got as beautiful of a stroke as you’re going to find,” a head coach said. “Most people will say if the pocket is tight, that is probably when his play descends, but you’re not going to find too many passers that are cleaner than Derek, especially when he is in rhythm. He has enough creativity. Derek is a sharp guy. He is really, really smart. He can command a lot for that team.”

Another one:

The knock is still that, you pressure him and he’s going to get sped up and he’s going to look anxious at times, but you look at the production and you say, ‘OK, if they could have played functional defense, what’s the record look like?’ ”

 

Not arguing with you but they have the same analysis that many of the Carr critics have been saying.  Also it is interesting that he played great but was the first time in 7 years he got to play in KC before Dec 1st.  When I talk about Carr's shortcomings it is not a reason why the team sucks but is still an area he needs to work on.  

Raiders place emphasis on fixing dismal red zone offense (registercitizen.com)

Funny that somebody in the media is finally writing about what some of us in here have been talking about for a long time.

[NCOUGHMAN]

29 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

It wasn't a coach. That was a personnel director.

Here's some other quotes from the same article:

“Maybe he has figured it out, or he has no more butt left to rip any more. Maybe he went to Las Vegas and lost his ***. This guy played great against Kansas City last year, which he had not done before, and if he was available, you’d have 10 teams lining up for him.”

Head coach

“He’s extremely accurate, and he’s got as beautiful of a stroke as you’re going to find,” a head coach said. “Most people will say if the pocket is tight, that is probably when his play descends, but you’re not going to find too many passers that are cleaner than Derek, especially when he is in rhythm. He has enough creativity. Derek is a sharp guy. He is really, really smart. He can command a lot for that team.”

Another one:

The knock is still that, you pressure him and he’s going to get sped up and he’s going to look anxious at times, but you look at the production and you say, ‘OK, if they could have played functional defense, what’s the record look like?’ ”

 

And that’s why they ranked him at 15 and not lower. Carr isn’t garbage but he’s not top 10 either which some here like to claim. And this is from real nfl guys not fans. I think I said he was 13-15 so I guess even I think more highly of him then the league. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by NCOUGHMAN

[Dessie]

5 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

It wasn't a coach. That was a personnel director.

Here's some other quotes from the same article:

“Maybe he has figured it out, or he has no more butt left to rip any more. Maybe he went to Las Vegas and lost his ***. This guy played great against Kansas City last year, which he had not done before, and if he was available, you’d have 10 teams lining up for him.”

Head coach

“He’s extremely accurate, and he’s got as beautiful of a stroke as you’re going to find,” a head coach said. “Most people will say if the pocket is tight, that is probably when his play descends, but you’re not going to find too many passers that are cleaner than Derek, especially when he is in rhythm. He has enough creativity. Derek is a sharp guy. He is really, really smart. He can command a lot for that team.”

Another one:

The knock is still that, you pressure him and he’s going to get sped up and he’s going to look anxious at times, but you look at the production and you say, ‘OK, if they could have played functional defense, what’s the record look like?’ ”

 

Interesting how the same article provides 2 different takes. If we had a functional defense what would we look like is what a lot in here have been saying for a while. 

DC is not the problem with the Raiders like a lot of the critics like to make out. 

[drfrey13]

6 hours ago, Dessie said:

Interesting how the same article provides 2 different takes. If we had a functional defense what would we look like is what a lot in here have been saying for a while. 

DC is not the problem with the Raiders like a lot of the critics like to make out. 

He is not the problem but is he the solution?  This is the question that is debated.  We are a much better team with a better defense and that needs to be addressed as the biggest issue but the offense's inability to function in the red zone is also a major problem.  The mismanagement of cap space and draft picks is another.  We have a very strange team.   We have a coach and a QB that saves the team and yet at the same time holds it back.  They are the strength but then their weaknesses pop up.  To me it is the most frustrating thing watch.  It is like a kid that tells you they want to jump off the high dive and goes straight up the stairs with all the confidence in the world.  Then they freeze when it is time to jump.  You know if they do it will be fine but since they hesitated they will most likely belly flop and hurt themselves.

[Bitty 2.0]

21 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

In a recent article by Mike Sando of The Athletic, he polled 50 NFL coaches, decision-makers and general managers as to who are the best quarterbacks in the league. He had them rank the quarterbacks by tiers and then ranked them from 1-34.

Carr came in at No. 15, which is up five spots from where he finished last year. Here is what one personnel director had to say about Carr:

“I think what you saw last year will be the absolute best you see Derek Carr play. I don’t know if he has any more room to grow. They have had a strong run game, they had some weapons on the outside. He played with the most confidence I’ve seen him play in his entire career. Is that sustainable?”

Can’t post links for some reason but thought this was interesting esp coming from coaches etc

This is just clickbait dude

[MrOaktown_56]

13 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

And that’s why they ranked him at 15 and not lower. Carr isn’t garbage but he’s not top 10 either which some here like to claim. And this is from real nfl guys not fans. I think I said he was 13-15 so I guess even I think more highly of him then the league. 

Yeah it’s an interesting ranking. Burrow and Murray are already really high and haven’t done anything.

[Humble_Beast]

3 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Yeah it’s an interesting ranking. Burrow and Murray are already really high and haven’t done anything.

I can't put Burrow/Murray/Herbert ahead of DC yet. they sure do have A potential but hype at this point. They look good so far 

[MrOaktown_56]

4 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

He is not the problem but is he the solution?  This is the question that is debated.  We are a much better team with a better defense and that needs to be addressed as the biggest issue but the offense's inability to function in the red zone is also a major problem.  The mismanagement of cap space and draft picks is another.  We have a very strange team.   We have a coach and a QB that saves the team and yet at the same time holds it back.  They are the strength but then their weaknesses pop up.  To me it is the most frustrating thing watch.  It is like a kid that tells you they want to jump off the high dive and goes straight up the stairs with all the confidence in the world.  Then they freeze when it is time to jump.  You know if they do it will be fine but since they hesitated they will most likely belly flop and hurt themselves.

No I’m with you. I’m glad we didn’t extend him. I want to see him have a career year this year and I’ll be happy. If he doesn’t we can pivot.