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The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...


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5 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

It's a terrible take on so many levels.  With having such a terrible D, turnovers are death sentences.

Most fans have zero clue how negatively a bad D can affect an O.  Playing catch up, which we have been doing the majority of Carrs career, limits play calling.  Once the run game gets abandoned, the D knows that we are having to pass to catch up, they send the heat and our O becomes one dimensional with no threat of the run.  

Or red zone woes has more to do with personnel than anything else.  Outside of Waller who did we have that was a RZ threat last year?  One can argue Jacobs but he was only effective at the goal line.  Focus on Waller and no one else we have can win unless we are 3 yards or under.  Playing the Raiders in the RZ is a D coordinators dream as we have no threats down there.  Shut down Waller and they will falter more times than not and that is exactly what happened.   

The defense gave up 24 TD in the first have and the offence scored 23.  I believe we had the lead in 9 of the games at the half and only one, Atlanta were the offense forgot there was a game, were we down by more than a score  at the half.  It was in the 2nd half that we got beat when we got out coached.  Even in the 2nd half the defense gave up 27 TDs and the offense scored 24.  The offense was definitely the better side of the team but they were not great.   The offense deserves the blame for more than a couple loses.  Hopefully Guenther was the biggest reason for the defense sucking and Bradley can turn it around. 

As for the big red zone WR I have been asking for one all off season.  That would fix a lot of the red zone issues.  Moreau will help but a big WR would be great.  That is why I was not against bringing back TW if we could have signed him for cheap.  My only hope now is if Edwards can make a huge jump from year 1 to 2.

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9 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I agree with this and I have been sounding the alarm bells on TO differential since 2016 and everyone was saying we were finally contenders.  +16 in TOs leads to a lot of wins.  With that said if your defense is giving up TDs and you are kicking FGs you know you are going to lose.  If your offense is going TD for TD with the other team then of course you do not increase your chances for TOs.  You have to be able to tell when a team is starting to pull away and adapt.  Just like how you can get to a point in the game where you need to go for it on 4th down because you lose no matter what if you kick a FG.  If Carr increases his INTs because he is more aggressive and learns how to take care of the ball it would benefit the team because his positive passing stats will improve also.  I have also said the defense needs to be more opportunistic also so I am not putting this all on Carr's shoulders.

As far as only 1 TO a game Carr averaged over 1 TO a game by himself.  Wentz had the most TOs last year with 19 and Carr was 4th with 17.  A lot of people want to jump on the defense but the offense had 26 giveaways.  Only 2 teams would have had a positive TO differential with our offense and those would have been +1 and +3.  Carr himself had as many or more TOs then 8 teams.  Half the league had 20 or less giveaways and we had 17 from a very conservative QB.  I can except TOs if you are being aggressive but not when you are a QB that is known for playing it safe.

Yea 100% I have said Carr needs to do a better job of holding on to the ball. If he gets touched I always fear the ball being on the ground. No problem here admitting its his biggest weakness. 
26 give aways is pathetic. Especially when you factor in how vanilla / risk adverse our O was. 

Honestly the difference between last year and 2016, was 2016 Mack literally closed 3 games out IIRC on the last drive. Buff Carr and I think one other. 
Those 3 happen against KC Mia and Chargers, and theres the extra 3. Not to mention his impact in other close games (NE/BUFF)

Ill fight the first bold, but it is pretty irrelevant because I do believe Carr needs to be better with the ball. But I know for a fact, 1 fumble was 100% Richard, and 1 int I put solely on Ruggs. So that takes him just under 1 TO per game 😆, but I agree with your point.  

2nd bold agreed 100%, for a risk adverse O, we had wayyyy to many turnovers. 
 

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3 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Yea 100% I have said Carr needs to do a better job of holding on to the ball. If he gets touched I always fear the ball being on the ground. No problem here admitting its his biggest weakness. 
26 give aways is pathetic. Especially when you factor in how vanilla / risk adverse our O was. 

Honestly the difference between last year and 2016, was 2016 Mack literally closed 3 games out IIRC on the last drive. Buff Carr and I think one other. 
Those 3 happen against KC Mia and Chargers, and theres the extra 3. Not to mention his impact in other close games (NE/BUFF)

Ill fight the first bold, but it is pretty irrelevant because I do believe Carr needs to be better with the ball. But I know for a fact, 1 fumble was 100% Richard, and 1 int I put solely on Ruggs. So that takes him just under 1 TO per game 😆, but I agree with your point.  

2nd bold agreed 100%, for a risk adverse O, we had wayyyy to many turnovers. 
 

I would not put all TOs on Carr either the same way I would not do that to any QB in the league.  We do not create enough TOs and we give to many away.  The defense was setup to not be aggressive so low TOs was expected.  The O the same so low giveaways was expected.  What did what I thought and the other did not.  This still does not put all the blame on the offense or that the defense is fine.  The O needs to clean it up and hopefully Bradley can fix the defense.

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9 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

26 give aways is pathetic. Especially when you factor in how vanilla / risk adverse our O was. 
 

As a team, 7th least interceptions thrown in 2020 but most fumbles lost. It doesn't matter how "risk adverse" your O is if you just fumble the ball. The rate of fumble lost was incredibly high though. 24 fumbles, 16 lost. The team with the most fumble was Philadelphia with 31 but they only lost 9. Is there a way to correct your own fumbles recovery rate other than luck? I don't think there is.

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3 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

As a team, 7th least interceptions thrown in 2020 but most fumbles lost. It doesn't matter how "risk adverse" your O is if you just fumble the ball. The rate of fumble lost was incredibly high though. 24 fumbles, 16 lost. The team with the most fumble was Philadelphia with 31 but they only lost 9. Is there a way to correct your own fumbles recovery rate other than luck? I don't think there is.

Teaching your QB ball security.  Carr had half our fumbles and believe #1 in fumble giveaways.  You can say sacks where a direct cause of this but Carr was only sacked 26 times which ranked 16th.  

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5 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

As a team, 7th least interceptions thrown in 2020 but most fumbles lost. It doesn't matter how "risk adverse" your O is if you just fumble the ball. The rate of fumble lost was incredibly high though. 24 fumbles, 16 lost. The team with the most fumble was Philadelphia with 31 but they only lost 9. Is there a way to correct your own fumbles recovery rate other than luck? I don't think there is.

That is a pretty wild and interesting stat. 
As a Raider fan I wouldnt want to leave it up to we will have better luck next year, because were always on the wrong side of luck it seems lol. 

I would assume a better grip would keep the ball closer to your body if it comes out, and then you have a better chance of recovery.  But I do agree recovery rate is probably one of those things that is fluky. 

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Just now, drfrey13 said:

Teaching your QB ball security.  Carr had half our fumbles and believe #1 in fumble giveaways.  You can say sacks where a direct cause of this but Carr was only sacked 26 times which ranked 16th.  

To correct the fumble issue but i was talking about the fumble lost rate. There were 3 teams with more fumbles than the Raiders but none lost more. SF had the 2nd most fumble lost but wasn't even in the top 10 teams with the most fumbles. It's random.

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http://www.footballperspective.com/the-chargers-had-the-worst-fumble-luck-in-2019/#more-45909

This chart from 2019, but the lions had the worst offensive recovery rate at 33%, which is what we were at last year, so Id assume close to bottom if not bottom. 
Again, 2019, but broncos recovered 71% of their own fumbles. 

The season def wouldve played out different if we had recovered more of our own. 

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2 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

To correct the fumble issue but i was talking about the fumble lost rate. There were 3 teams with more fumbles than the Raiders but none lost more. SF had the 2nd most fumble lost but wasn't even in the top 10 teams with the most fumbles. It's random.

There is always a luck aspect to TOs but some of the luck you limit yourself.  Being ranked 29th in fumbles is to much regardless of how many we recovered.  I think recovery rate would be higher for RBs than it is for QBs.  When QBs are in the pocket their closest teammates have their back turned to them so it is the QB who is most likely to recover but at the same time is getting hit.  I could be wrong but just thinking about it that is my thoughts.

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19 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

An entire team changing in 7 years, is something that rarely happens in the NFL. Weve done it twice in Carrs career lol
That is ridiculous amount of turnover. 

I think you know this, but, having units gel / that have been together a while in the NFL is a huge plus. 
on top of that coaching longevity is a huge plus. 

I also dont know why you think Carr got a pass?
We have brought in competition throughout his time here, including spending the most on a backup last year.

Carr beat out Mariota last year - - How is that a pass?

Competition lol

who

mcgroin, cook, mm was still hurt until chargers game, who else peterman, glennon am I missing anyone. 

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14 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

The defense gave up 24 TD in the first have and the offence scored 23.  I believe we had the lead in 9 of the games at the half and only one, Atlanta were the offense forgot there was a game, were we down by more than a score  at the half.  It was in the 2nd half that we got beat when we got out coached.  Even in the 2nd half the defense gave up 27 TDs and the offense scored 24.  The offense was definitely the better side of the team but they were not great.   The offense deserves the blame for more than a couple loses.  Hopefully Guenther was the biggest reason for the defense sucking and Bradley can turn it around. 

As for the big red zone WR I have been asking for one all off season.  That would fix a lot of the red zone issues.  Moreau will help but a big WR would be great.  That is why I was not against bringing back TW if we could have signed him for cheap.  My only hope now is if Edwards can make a huge jump from year 1 to 2.

They were top 10 in scoring and nearly top 5 in points per drive. Not to mention we had bad starting field position and were near the bottom of the league in turnovers. We had 7 defensive turnovers in 14 games. That's beyond bad. The only saving graces were the 1st broncos game and the jets game.

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41 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Competition lol

who

mcgroin, cook, mm was still hurt until chargers game, who else peterman, glennon am I missing anyone. 

I mean I know Several people thought Mcgloin would beat out Carr. 
I know Several people thought Mariota would beat out Carr. 
I actually remember some thinking EJ Manual would beat out Carr 

-
To me, it was never a competition. 
But people now act like Carr has been handed the job every year, when every time we bring someone in to challenge him there have been people on this forum saying X was going to take over for Carr. 

To say Mariota was hurt until the charger game is a bit of a stretch as well. 

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