The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[BackinBlack]

1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Well before that game jj was slumping I actually agree with him. I remember watching the game the chargers defense legit looked shook cause mm improvising was keeping the sticks moving. 
 

“Mariota, using myriad run-pass option plays, rushed for a game-high 88 yards on nine carries. Eight of those attempts resulted in a first down. The only NFL quarterbacks to have more first-down runs in a game since 1992 are Lamar Jackson with 10 such runs last season against the San Francisco 49ers and Michael Vick with nine against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2006. Mariota also had a tough 2-yard TD run. “
 

that’s major for a running game. carr isn’t a threat to run or improvise. Definitely mm took some heat off of jj

yea Mariota had a hell of a game running. Def not arguing that. 
Just saying he didnt open the game up for our RBs, or anyone not named Darren Waller really. . But I think that is more of a Darren Waller statement then Mariota, because We saw Waller have massive games with Carr too. 

[ronjon1990]

Just now, BackinBlack said:

he was also 5 for 27 or something with Carr in that game still lol

It's Carr's fault. 

[BackinBlack]

Raider Panthers - no turnovers

Raider Saints - Derek Carr fumble, clearly on Jalen Richard IMO but I know im a Carr homer 😆 Recovered on their 40 and they punted 5 plays later. 
https://youtu.be/PJeM_jLlWUU?t=762happens at 12:45 into this video. If you put that on Carr, not sure what to tell you

Raiders NE
Josh Jacobs fumble on the NE 12, bad call. We actually picked it off 4 plays later
Derek Carr Fumble NE Recovered on LV 43 - They went 9 plays for 37 yards and FG - will count as 3 points given by the O
Missed 41 yard FG - NE Went 69 yards in 7 plays - This is on the D IMO
Derek Carr fumble return for TD - 7 points direct against ** game was 36-13 with 5 mins left at this point.

Raiders Buff
Darren Waller fumbled recovered by Buff at their 40 - Buff went 60 yards in 4 plays for TD - Ds fault
4 and out on our 34 - We held them 
Derek Carr Fumbled recovered by Buff at their 40, D holds them they punt

Raiders KC
Carr interception on our 24 - 4 plays 28 yards TD for KC - O directly gave up 3 (but KC we knew itd be 7)

Raiders Bucs
Carr interception on our 40 ran to our 24 - one play later TD - Directly 3, wish our D did better then 1 play befroe the tD
Turnover on downs at our 32 - *38-20 at this point 2 mins left- TD 6 plays 32 yards later - Directly 3, and game was over

Raiders Browns 
Missed 41 yard FG - browns went 5 plays 32 yards and then fumbled

Raiders Chargers
Derek fumble on our 27 - recovered with 5 seconds left in half and they kicked fg right away - direct on Carr

Raiders Broncos 
no turnovers

Raiders KC 
Carr interception - they took knee next two plays to end the game - no points

Raider Falcons
Turn over on downs at our 45 - they went 7 plays 25 yards - I will say direct on the O
Carr fumble on 21 - D held them to 3 and out - direct on the O
Carr fumble on atl 39 - 8 plays 50 yards later FG - not direct on O
Carr pick 6 - direct on O
Jacobs Fumble on our 26 - held to FG - direct on O
Carr fumble on 36 - 4 plays 35 yard TD 

Raider Jets
Carr int on our 25 - D stopped them
Ruggs fumble on our 44 - 6 plays 44 yard TD - O direct 3?
Turn over on downs on their 9 - no points

Raider Colts
Interception for touchback - they got 3, not on O
Renfrow fumbles on our 26 - d held to 3 and out - direct 3 points on O
Carr pick 6 - direct on O - *down 37-20 with 6 mins

Raider Chargers
Mariota Int and ran back to our 33 - 4 and out - missed 50 yard FG 3 - not on O cause they missed?

Raider Dolphins
Turnover on downs on our 47 - D held to 3 and out - no points
Fumble kickoff return with no time left on clock -- after laterals and what not

Raider Broncos 
Darren Waller fumble at our 39 - they missed fg - no points
Carr interception to our 37 - 6 plays 30 yard but FG - D did their job - 3 on the O
Ruggs fumbles on our 34 - 5 plays TD - 3 directly on O
Carr int to our 31 - they punted so no points?

-
At most id say 71 points, 4.4 direct on the O
Id say 50ish direct on the O. (counting some TDs as 3 direct points if in FG range?)

40ish being on a Carr turnover with 30 Directly because of him. 3 returns and 3 in close FG range.
2 of the returns where in close to garbage time (NE / COLTS), and the ugly pick 6 down against ATL. 

I am not a big fan of the garbage time argument, but since Carrs good plays are tossed aside, Id think there should be some understanding of Carr is getting more aggressive since the game is essentially over.
And if your going to say thats dumb he shouldn'tt play different... Id direct you back to everyones hatred for the 4th down play 2 years ago. 

 

 

[dante9876]

9 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Raider Panthers - no turnovers

Raider Saints - Derek Carr fumble, clearly on Jalen Richard IMO but I know im a Carr homer 😆 Recovered on their 40 and they punted 5 plays later. 
https://youtu.be/PJeM_jLlWUU?t=762happens at 12:45 into this video. If you put that on Carr, not sure what to tell you

Raiders NE
Josh Jacobs fumble on the NE 12, bad call. We actually picked it off 4 plays later
Derek Carr Fumble NE Recovered on LV 43 - They went 9 plays for 37 yards and FG - will count as 3 points given by the O
Missed 41 yard FG - NE Went 69 yards in 7 plays - This is on the D IMO
Derek Carr fumble return for TD - 7 points direct against ** game was 36-13 with 5 mins left at this point.

Raiders Buff
Darren Waller fumbled recovered by Buff at their 40 - Buff went 60 yards in 4 plays for TD - Ds fault
4 and out on our 34 - We held them 
Derek Carr Fumbled recovered by Buff at their 40, D holds them they punt

Raiders KC
Carr interception on our 24 - 4 plays 28 yards TD for KC - O directly gave up 3 (but KC we knew itd be 7)

Raiders Bucs
Carr interception on our 40 ran to our 24 - one play later TD - Directly 3, wish our D did better then 1 play befroe the tD
Turnover on downs at our 32 - *38-20 at this point 2 mins left- TD 6 plays 32 yards later - Directly 3, and game was over

Raiders Browns 
Missed 41 yard FG - browns went 5 plays 32 yards and then fumbled

Raiders Chargers
Derek fumble on our 27 - recovered with 5 seconds left in half and they kicked fg right away - direct on Carr

Raiders Broncos 
no turnovers

Raiders KC 
Carr interception - they took knee next two plays to end the game - no points

Raider Falcons
Turn over on downs at our 45 - they went 7 plays 25 yards - I will say direct on the O
Carr fumble on 21 - D held them to 3 and out - direct on the O
Carr fumble on atl 39 - 8 plays 50 yards later FG - not direct on O
Carr pick 6 - direct on O
Jacobs Fumble on our 26 - held to FG - direct on O
Carr fumble on 36 - 4 plays 35 yard TD 

Raider Jets
Carr int on our 25 - D stopped them
Ruggs fumble on our 44 - 6 plays 44 yard TD - O direct 3?
Turn over on downs on their 9 - no points

Raider Colts
Interception for touchback - they got 3, not on O
Renfrow fumbles on our 26 - d held to 3 and out - direct 3 points on O
Carr pick 6 - direct on O - *down 37-20 with 6 mins

Raider Chargers
Mariota Int and ran back to our 33 - 4 and out - missed 50 yard FG 3 - not on O cause they missed?

Raider Dolphins
Turnover on downs on our 47 - D held to 3 and out - no points
Fumble kickoff return with no time left on clock -- after laterals and what not

Raider Broncos 
Darren Waller fumble at our 39 - they missed fg - no points
Carr interception to our 37 - 6 plays 30 yard but FG - D did their job - 3 on the O
Ruggs fumbles on our 34 - 5 plays TD - 3 directly on O
Carr int to our 31 - they punted so no points?

-
At most id say 71 points, 4.4 direct on the O
Id say 50ish direct on the O. (counting some TDs as 3 direct points if in FG range?)

40ish being on a Carr turnover with 30 Directly because of him. 3 returns and 3 in close FG range.
2 of the returns where in close to garbage time (NE / COLTS), and the ugly pick 6 down against ATL. 

I am not a big fan of the garbage time argument, but since Carrs good plays are tossed aside, Id think there should be some understanding of Carr is getting more aggressive since the game is essentially over.
And if your going to say thats dumb he shouldn'tt play different... Id direct you back to everyones hatred for the 4th down play 2 years ago. 

 

 

I read all that. All I can think is this dude just got to stop fumbling. He probably only had 3 or 4 inexcusable interceptions on the season. The others like you said was late game or another mishap like a dropped pass. His fumbles just be killers though. 

[BackinBlack]

14 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

I read all that. All I can think is this dude just got to stop fumbling. He probably only had 3 or 4 inexcusable interceptions on the season. The others like you said was late game or another mishap like a dropped pass. His fumbles just be killers though. 

100%

[drfrey13]

2 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

Raider Panthers - no turnovers

Raider Saints - Derek Carr fumble, clearly on Jalen Richard IMO but I know im a Carr homer 😆 Recovered on their 40 and they punted 5 plays later. 
https://youtu.be/PJeM_jLlWUU?t=762happens at 12:45 into this video. If you put that on Carr, not sure what to tell you

Raiders NE
Josh Jacobs fumble on the NE 12, bad call. We actually picked it off 4 plays later
Derek Carr Fumble NE Recovered on LV 43 - They went 9 plays for 37 yards and FG - will count as 3 points given by the O
Missed 41 yard FG - NE Went 69 yards in 7 plays - This is on the D IMO
Derek Carr fumble return for TD - 7 points direct against ** game was 36-13 with 5 mins left at this point.

Raiders Buff
Darren Waller fumbled recovered by Buff at their 40 - Buff went 60 yards in 4 plays for TD - Ds fault
4 and out on our 34 - We held them 
Derek Carr Fumbled recovered by Buff at their 40, D holds them they punt

Raiders KC
Carr interception on our 24 - 4 plays 28 yards TD for KC - O directly gave up 3 (but KC we knew itd be 7)

Raiders Bucs
Carr interception on our 40 ran to our 24 - one play later TD - Directly 3, wish our D did better then 1 play befroe the tD
Turnover on downs at our 32 - *38-20 at this point 2 mins left- TD 6 plays 32 yards later - Directly 3, and game was over

Raiders Browns 
Missed 41 yard FG - browns went 5 plays 32 yards and then fumbled

Raiders Chargers
Derek fumble on our 27 - recovered with 5 seconds left in half and they kicked fg right away - direct on Carr

Raiders Broncos 
no turnovers

Raiders KC 
Carr interception - they took knee next two plays to end the game - no points

Raider Falcons
Turn over on downs at our 45 - they went 7 plays 25 yards - I will say direct on the O
Carr fumble on 21 - D held them to 3 and out - direct on the O
Carr fumble on atl 39 - 8 plays 50 yards later FG - not direct on O
Carr pick 6 - direct on O
Jacobs Fumble on our 26 - held to FG - direct on O
Carr fumble on 36 - 4 plays 35 yard TD 

Raider Jets
Carr int on our 25 - D stopped them
Ruggs fumble on our 44 - 6 plays 44 yard TD - O direct 3?
Turn over on downs on their 9 - no points

Raider Colts
Interception for touchback - they got 3, not on O
Renfrow fumbles on our 26 - d held to 3 and out - direct 3 points on O
Carr pick 6 - direct on O - *down 37-20 with 6 mins

Raider Chargers
Mariota Int and ran back to our 33 - 4 and out - missed 50 yard FG 3 - not on O cause they missed?

Raider Dolphins
Turnover on downs on our 47 - D held to 3 and out - no points
Fumble kickoff return with no time left on clock -- after laterals and what not

Raider Broncos 
Darren Waller fumble at our 39 - they missed fg - no points
Carr interception to our 37 - 6 plays 30 yard but FG - D did their job - 3 on the O
Ruggs fumbles on our 34 - 5 plays TD - 3 directly on O
Carr int to our 31 - they punted so no points?

-
At most id say 71 points, 4.4 direct on the O
Id say 50ish direct on the O. (counting some TDs as 3 direct points if in FG range?)

40ish being on a Carr turnover with 30 Directly because of him. 3 returns and 3 in close FG range.
2 of the returns where in close to garbage time (NE / COLTS), and the ugly pick 6 down against ATL. 

I am not a big fan of the garbage time argument, but since Carrs good plays are tossed aside, Id think there should be some understanding of Carr is getting more aggressive since the game is essentially over.
And if your going to say thats dumb he shouldn'tt play different... Id direct you back to everyones hatred for the 4th down play 2 years ago. 

 

 

The way I see it if the D could hold them to under 40 yards gained I put the points on the offense.  I would also say that roughly half the scores should be counted when they are TDs and not just 3 points.  You give teams a short field and they score TDs at a much higher rate.  Teams generally get aggressive after a TO and will go for a kill shot.  Also a lot of our turnovers not only put the defense in bad field position but from what I remember they happen early in our drives.  Its like an unexpected 3 and out.  Defense is not rested and caught off guard.  Carr's interception rate is really good but the fumbles are the real killer.

[BackinBlack]

7 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

The way I see it if the D could hold them to under 40 yards gained I put the points on the offense.  I would also say that roughly half the scores should be counted when they are TDs and not just 3 points.  You give teams a short field and they score TDs at a much higher rate.  Teams generally get aggressive after a TO and will go for a kill shot.  Also a lot of our turnovers not only put the defense in bad field position but from what I remember they happen early in our drives.  Its like an unexpected 3 and out.  Defense is not rested and caught off guard.  Carr's interception rate is really good but the fumbles are the real killer.

Yea for sure, its definitely a bit of a what if scenario, and I really didnt know how to count some. Generally if D held to a 3 and out FG i said directly on O. 
I do agree and wish I had listed how long our drive was before the turnover, wouldve been very interesting. May do it next, may try to link highlights. . . but, its a bit of work haha

Going through that I was actually surprised and our D did better then I thought off of Turnovers. 

[drfrey13]

1 minute ago, BackinBlack said:

Yea for sure, its definitely a bit of a what if scenario, and I really didnt know how to count some. Generally if D held to a 3 and out FG i said directly on O. 
I do agree and wish I had listed how long our drive was before the turnover, wouldve been very interesting. May do it next, may try to link highlights. . . but, its a bit of work haha

Going through that I was actually surprised and our D did better then I thought off of Turnovers. 

The defense generally played well after TOs and it was very surprising when I first looked at it.  I do not think we had a good defense but I also think they got to much blame because of the TOs which lead to a worse points allowed ranking but have a compounding affect through the game.  It is hard to have a specific measurement as to what is on the offense and what is on the defense.  I pick 40 yards because if you were to get a touchback and the defense allowed under 40 yards to the opposing offense you would most likely force a punt.  Most teams are not going to kick 52 yard plus FGs very often.

[BackinBlack]

5 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

The defense generally played well after TOs and it was very surprising when I first looked at it.  I do not think we had a good defense but I also think they got to much blame because of the TOs which lead to a worse points allowed ranking but have a compounding affect through the game.  It is hard to have a specific measurement as to what is on the offense and what is on the defense.  I pick 40 yards because if you were to get a touchback and the defense allowed under 40 yards to the opposing offense you would most likely force a punt.  Most teams are not going to kick 52 yard plus FGs very often.

For sure, 40 yards seems to be a good number. 
What would you do on when we turnover at the 40, and our D stops them to no points? Should I count as 3 points anyways? That is kind of why I struggled to say directly the Os fault. 

Would be interested to see what these numbers look like for other teams. Giving up 4 points per game off turnovers, when counting anything less than 40 yards on the O, Id imagine is bad, but not bottom 5. But could be very wrong of course. 

[drfrey13]

2 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

For sure, 40 yards seems to be a good number. 
What would you do on when we turnover at the 40, and our D stops them to no points? Should I count as 3 points anyways? That is kind of why I struggled to say directly the Os fault. 

Would be interested to see what these numbers look like for other teams. Giving up 4 points per game off turnovers, when counting anything less than 40 yards on the O, Id imagine is bad, but not bottom 5. But could be very wrong of course. 

That would be a lot of number crunching to figure out our ranking.  We were bottom 5 in giveaways so it could be possible that we were bottom 5 in points off of TOs.  I think our defense played well after TOs so maybe not also.  I found some other interesting stats also.  We were close to last in recovering our own fumbles at 38% and close to last in allowing other teams to recover their own fumbles at 62%.

NFL Football Stats - NFL Team Opponent Fumble Recovery Percentage | TeamRankings.com

[NCOUGHMAN]

11 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

Raider Panthers - no turnovers

Raider Saints - Derek Carr fumble, clearly on Jalen Richard IMO but I know im a Carr homer 😆 Recovered on their 40 and they punted 5 plays later. 
https://youtu.be/PJeM_jLlWUU?t=762happens at 12:45 into this video. If you put that on Carr, not sure what to tell you

Raiders NE
Josh Jacobs fumble on the NE 12, bad call. We actually picked it off 4 plays later
Derek Carr Fumble NE Recovered on LV 43 - They went 9 plays for 37 yards and FG - will count as 3 points given by the O
Missed 41 yard FG - NE Went 69 yards in 7 plays - This is on the D IMO
Derek Carr fumble return for TD - 7 points direct against ** game was 36-13 with 5 mins left at this point.

Raiders Buff
Darren Waller fumbled recovered by Buff at their 40 - Buff went 60 yards in 4 plays for TD - Ds fault
4 and out on our 34 - We held them 
Derek Carr Fumbled recovered by Buff at their 40, D holds them they punt

Raiders KC
Carr interception on our 24 - 4 plays 28 yards TD for KC - O directly gave up 3 (but KC we knew itd be 7)

Raiders Bucs
Carr interception on our 40 ran to our 24 - one play later TD - Directly 3, wish our D did better then 1 play befroe the tD
Turnover on downs at our 32 - *38-20 at this point 2 mins left- TD 6 plays 32 yards later - Directly 3, and game was over

Raiders Browns 
Missed 41 yard FG - browns went 5 plays 32 yards and then fumbled

Raiders Chargers
Derek fumble on our 27 - recovered with 5 seconds left in half and they kicked fg right away - direct on Carr

Raiders Broncos 
no turnovers

Raiders KC 
Carr interception - they took knee next two plays to end the game - no points

Raider Falcons
Turn over on downs at our 45 - they went 7 plays 25 yards - I will say direct on the O
Carr fumble on 21 - D held them to 3 and out - direct on the O
Carr fumble on atl 39 - 8 plays 50 yards later FG - not direct on O
Carr pick 6 - direct on O
Jacobs Fumble on our 26 - held to FG - direct on O
Carr fumble on 36 - 4 plays 35 yard TD 

Raider Jets
Carr int on our 25 - D stopped them
Ruggs fumble on our 44 - 6 plays 44 yard TD - O direct 3?
Turn over on downs on their 9 - no points

Raider Colts
Interception for touchback - they got 3, not on O
Renfrow fumbles on our 26 - d held to 3 and out - direct 3 points on O
Carr pick 6 - direct on O - *down 37-20 with 6 mins

Raider Chargers
Mariota Int and ran back to our 33 - 4 and out - missed 50 yard FG 3 - not on O cause they missed?

Raider Dolphins
Turnover on downs on our 47 - D held to 3 and out - no points
Fumble kickoff return with no time left on clock -- after laterals and what not

Raider Broncos 
Darren Waller fumble at our 39 - they missed fg - no points
Carr interception to our 37 - 6 plays 30 yard but FG - D did their job - 3 on the O
Ruggs fumbles on our 34 - 5 plays TD - 3 directly on O
Carr int to our 31 - they punted so no points?

-
At most id say 71 points, 4.4 direct on the O
Id say 50ish direct on the O. (counting some TDs as 3 direct points if in FG range?)

40ish being on a Carr turnover with 30 Directly because of him. 3 returns and 3 in close FG range.
2 of the returns where in close to garbage time (NE / COLTS), and the ugly pick 6 down against ATL. 

I am not a big fan of the garbage time argument, but since Carrs good plays are tossed aside, Id think there should be some understanding of Carr is getting more aggressive since the game is essentially over.
And if your going to say thats dumb he shouldn'tt play different... Id direct you back to everyones hatred for the 4th down play 2 years ago. 

 

 

Good work homie even tho I should’ve had my coffee before I read that. 
 

what’s the verdict tho

-how many td’s & fgs were directly from Carr’s to’s?

-how many tds & fgs were directly from the offenses to’s?

[BackinBlack]

18 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Good work homie even tho I should’ve had my coffee before I read that. 
 

what’s the verdict tho

-how many td’s & fgs were directly from Carr’s to’s?

-how many tds & fgs were directly from the offenses to’s?

Thanks bud. 
Here are the Carr turnovers that led to scores

Directly 3 tds (pick / fumble 6) and 5 Fgs.

NE 1 Fg where they recovered on 43 and they went 40 yards before kicking FG and 1 fumble 6. 
Raiders KC 1 Td (not pick 6, ended inside redzone)
Raiders Bucs 1 Td (not pick 6, TB scored 1 play later on 24 yard TD)
Raiders Chargers 1 FG (derek fumbled wih 5 secs left in half in fg range)
Falcons 1 fg (Derek fumble at 24) 1 TD (pick 6)
Raider Colts (Pick 6)
Raider broncos (Int to our 37 held to FG)

-
The KC and Bucs Ints that end in our redzone and become TDs. . . Carr definitely deserves some / most of blame, but it wouldve been nice to see our D hold. The Bucs one was 1 play later.

Edited July 7, 2021 by BackinBlack
was wrong

[NCOUGHMAN]

2 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

Thanks bud. 
Here are the Carr turnovers that led to scores

Directly 3 tds (pick / fumble 6) and 5 Fgs.

NE 1 Fg where they recovered on 43 and they went 40 yards before kicking FG and 1 fumble 6. 
Raiders KC 1 Td (not pick 6, ended inside redzone)
Raiders Bucs 1 Td (not pick 6, TB scored 1 play later on 24 yard TD)
Raiders Chargers 1 FG (derek fumbled wih 5 secs left in half in fg range)
Falcons 1 fg (Derek fumble at 24) 1 TD (pick 6)
Raider Colts (Pick 6)
Raider broncos (Int to our 37 held to FG)

-
The KC and Bucs Ints that end in our redzone and become TDs. . . Carr definitely deserves some / most of blame, but it wouldve been nice to see our D hold. The Bucs one was 1 play later and almost end off half for example. 

Ok so 21pts (tds) 15pts (fgs) so lightweight carr produced 36 points that counted against our defense. Interesting 

ok now how many points did our offense give up?

[BackinBlack]

Just now, NCOUGHMAN said:

Ok so 21pts (tds) 15pts (fgs) so lightweight carr produced 36 points that counted against our defense. Interesting 

ok now how many points did our offense give up?

again little tricky just with turnovers that happen around the 50, but I called it around 70. 

[BackinBlack]

Then would love to go through each turnover as well, but just lots of work
Take the Bucs int
https://www.buccaneers.com/video/antoine-winfield-jr-picks-off-derek-carr-bucs-vs-raiders-highlights

Down 11 with 7 mins left.
Debatable pass interfernce on Algholor
Did hit him in both hands. 
Agreed wasnt smartest through, but we were trying to score fast. 

Not sure if id put this solely on Carr.