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The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...


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6 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Those are two QBs that are essentially generational talents.  You aren't drafting another Mahomes or Wilson anytime soon without a number one pick, and the only one who may become the next Mahomes or Wilson in the near future is probably Trevor Lawrence (if that crappy team can actually rebound or a top team trades up to the number 1 pick).  Burrow, sadly, looks like he's going to be getting destroyed as long as he plays behind the Bengals OL.  He's about to be sacked 60 times this season at the current pace they're going.  I could see us winning 10 games with those two QBs, but not many QBs would be able to win with our defense.  Our terrible, no good, very bad defense.

I’m not saying we have to draft the next Wilson or Mahomes. Just someone better than Carr who has the potential to be more dynamic, more fearless, and a Top 10 QB. The Top 3 QBs in the upcoming draft all have the potential to be those things in Lawrence, Lance, and Fields. 
 

6 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

We certainly would be better with either of those guys. But even those two for as great as they are have struggled in games their defense gave up 30+ points, Mahomes is 4-7 and Wilson is 7-16. 

Our defense is trash, but the turnovers certainly isn’t doing them any favors. Our offense has become a fumble machine. Our D was totally fine against the Pats the first 25 minutes until the O fumbled twice at midfield, completely destroying the rhythm of the game. 

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4 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Our defense is trash, but the turnovers certainly isn’t doing them any favors. Our offense has become a fumble machine. Our D was totally fine against the Pats the first 25 minutes until the O fumbled twice at midfield, completely destroying the rhythm of the game. 

They certainly don't but again show me any QB in NFL history that has been able to win with a consistently bad defense. We've allowed 26.1 ppg during Carr's 7 year career and have allowed 30+ points in 38 of his 98 career starts (40%). Mahomes defense has given up 30+ in 11/39 starts (28%), Brady's defense has given up 30+ in 47/330 career starts (14%), and Rodgers defense has given up 30+ in 45/203 career starts (22%). 

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12 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

I’m not saying we have to draft the next Wilson or Mahomes. Just someone better than Carr who has the potential to be more dynamic, more fearless, and a Top 10 QB. The Top 3 QBs in the upcoming draft all have the potential to be those things in Lawrence, Lance, and Fields. 
 

Our defense is trash, but the turnovers certainly isn’t doing them any favors. Our offense has become a fumble machine. Our D was totally fine against the Pats the first 25 minutes until the O fumbled twice at midfield, completely destroying the rhythm of the game. 

I do wonder why your so keen to bring up the D playing well for 25 mins... but would never say the O looked good for 25 mins.
The game is 60 mins long. Our D got absolutely abused by the Pats. 

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45 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

You’re so obsessed with stats. Watch the games and watch how Carr plays. Is he having a bad season? No. But you always try to hype up Carr as some Top 10 QB when he absolutely is not one. 
 

Yes we have high standards. As every fanbase should. The goal is to win a Super Bowl. We’ve seen this story before where a franchise keeps a QB that’s not good enough to win the big dance. Many franchises make that mistake. The only reason Carr is the QB is because we haven’t been in range to draft someone better, which is the correct decision on Mayocks part. However, if someone better presents themselves in the draft, you take them. I’d take Lawrence, Lance, and even Fields over Carr. I’m big on Lawrence and Lance and I think Fields would be a slight upgrade. 
 

Carr is the same guy he’s always been. Ultra conservative. He’s been this way his entire career except the 4th QTR of 2015 and 2016. Teams have been playing him shallow since Week 3 of 2017 and not respecting anything past 15 yards. 
 

- Carr constantly throws short of the chains on 3rd down. He has done this consistently since Early 2017. 
 

- Carr does NOT make teammates around him better and elevate their play. You will probably say this is a myth as you are a pure numbers guy, but I assure you it’s not a myth. I have see Rodgers, Brady, Manning, Brees, Wilson, and lesser guys like Stafford, Romo, Ben, Rivers, etc elevate players around them. 
 

- Carr to me just does not have the toughness these other QBs have. Am I saying Carr is a weakling? No, but he simply doesn’t have the toughness those guys do. 
 

- Carr has never played fearless football. He’s hesitant, conservative, and rarely gives guys chances. To succeed in the NFL, you MUST throw in tight windows. Carr HATES throwing in tight windows. Always has. Even in 2015 and 2016. Look at Brady, Wilson, Mahomes, Rodgers, Prescott, Stafford, Ryan, Allen, Watson, etc they are fearless. If you think Carr has this personality, you are sorely mistaken. 
 

Is Carr having a bad season? No. Is Carr a bad QB? No. Is he anywhere near as good as you are hyping him up as...? No. Outside of Raider Fan bias, he’s consistently ranked 15-18. He’s a middle of the road QB, that will probably never get you a Super Bowl unless you have a 2013 Seattle Defense or 2015 Denver Defense. 
 

That is just cold hard reality. 

I remember the announcer saying “josh Allen the qb leads by example. You see him risking his life for a yard and as a teammate you know you have to match that intensity if it’s 3rd and 3 he’s looking to get 10 yards not 3” 

say we swap Allen for carr just for yesterday. I say we’d more than likely win.

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17 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

I’m not saying we have to draft the next Wilson or Mahomes. Just someone better than Carr who has the potential to be more dynamic, more fearless, and a Top 10 QB. The Top 3 QBs in the upcoming draft all have the potential to be those things in Lawrence, Lance, and Fields. 

When you look at PFN's QB power rankings there are only 8 QB's ranked ahead of Derek Carr who entered the league after he did: Mahomes, Jackson, Allen, Prescott, Murray, Watson, Burrow, and Goff. During that span there were 69 QB's drafted so you have like an 11% chance of finding a QB that's better than Carr and an 89% chance to find a QB that's worse. Not to mention of those 8 QB's, 7 were 1st round picks, 3 were the 1st overall pick, 2 were top 10 picks, 1 was a top 15 pick, 1 was a late 1st round pick, and 1 was a 4th round pick. 

There were 20 QB's drafted in the 1st round in that span with 7 being better than Carr. Meaning you'd have about a 35% chance to upgrade and a 65% chance of getting a worse player than Carr.

There were 49 QB's drafted after the 1st round in that span with 1 being better than Carr. Meaning you'd have about a 2% chance to upgrade and a. 98% chance of getting a player worse than Carr. 

And when you look at the success of the 6 QB's who have played multiple years and would be considered an upgrade over Carr. 

Mahomes - 22.5 ppg allowed by his defense

Jackson - 18.0 ppg allowed by his defense 

Allen - 20.3 ppg allowed by his defense 

Prescott - 21.0 ppg allowed by his defense 

Watson - 21.9 ppg allowed by his defense

Goff - 22.2 ppg allowed by his defense

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19 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I remember the announcer saying “josh Allen the qb leads by example. You see him risking his life for a yard and as a teammate you know you have to match that intensity if it’s 3rd and 3 he’s looking to get 10 yards not 3” 

say we swap Allen for carr just for yesterday. I say we’d more than likely win.

Gotta wonder how much he benefits from having 2 legit 1,000+ yard WR on the outside as well though. 

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1 hour ago, Rich7sena said:

Probably not. What is your point? KC is a much better team with the best quarterback in the league.

 

If you believe we dont beat KC, we are more like 2-3 going into the bye week with the Bucs and Browns next who also look like playoff teams

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11 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Still gotta have the guts to give them a chance. Besides Diggs whose the other 1k wr? 

In fairness, would you rather play with what Allen had yesterday or what we had?

If Ruggs and Edwards are healthy, there's no question for me. That's why I want to see the full offense and evaluate what they can/can't do when they're all on the field.

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3 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

In fairness, would you rather play with what Allen had yesterday or what we had?

If Ruggs and Edwards are healthy, there's no question for me. That's why I want to see the full offense and evaluate what they can/can't do when they're all on the field.

Their top 3 WR's yesterday combined for 202 receptions, 2,968 yards, and 18 TD last season.

Our top 3 WR's yesterday combined for 115 receptions, 1,184 yards, and 7 TD last season. 

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11 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Their top 3 WR's yesterday combined for 202 receptions, 2,968 yards, and 18 TD last season.

Our top 3 WR's yesterday combined for 115 receptions, 1,184 yards, and 7 TD last season. 

Absolutely. I agree that we had a far inferior WR group out there yesterday.

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