The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[Bitty 2.0]

4 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Herbert has definitely been really impressive. There was a lot of chatter that some in Miami's front office actually preferred him to Tu'a, have to wonder if they're regretting their decision. 

You have to Tua is made of glass.

[Darbsk]

13 hours ago, Jerry said:

Uploaded this online to continue our discussion of where DC should rank amongst QBs. We have completion percentage, TDs, and INTs showing. We all have access to these online stats and W-L records and what have you. After beating KC I want to argue that this season DC is playing as a top 8 QB. What say you oh great and mighty forum posters?!?!?!?

I'll do my ranking right now.

1 Wilson

2 Rodgers

3 Mahomes

4 Allen

5 Ben R.

6 L Jackson

7 DC

8 Tom Brady. For all you Brady lovers out there. You wierdos.

Obviously there is going to be some recency bias here, but this is who i think are the best QBs (not just based on the last game):

1. Wilson

2. Rodgers

3. Mahones

4. Allen

5. Watson

6. Prescott

7. Roethlisburger

8. Ryan

9. Jackson

10. Carr

11. Brady

12. Wentz

13. Tannehill

14. Stafford

15. Goff

Then it gets really interchangeable IMO based on if you like a runner like Murray or a gun slinger like Fitzpatrick or a game manager like Cousins. 

[Jerry]

1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

Obviously there is going to be some recency bias here, but this is who i think are the best QBs (not just based on the last game):

1. Wilson

2. Rodgers

3. Mahones

4. Allen

5. Watson

6. Prescott

7. Roethlisburger

8. Ryan

9. Jackson

10. Carr

11. Brady

12. Wentz

13. Tannehill

14. Stafford

15. Goff

Then it gets really interchangeable IMO based on if you like a runner like Murray or a gun slinger like Fitzpatrick or a game manager like Cousins. 

Matt Ryan is on the hot seat apparently and Deshaun Watson's stats have really dropped off without Hopkins. TOP 3 WRs help and he no longer has one.

[Darbsk]

1 minute ago, Jerry said:

Matt Ryan is on the hot seat apparently and Deshaun Watson's stats have really dropped off without Hopkins. TOP 3 WRs help and he no longer has one.

Yep, Texans are a shambles though I still think they both are very good QBs just with poor teams round them, kind of a Carr '17, '18 and '19 situation. Matt Ryan to Chicago is a trade I think works for both and would live to see, the Bears could be SB contenders with Ryan.

[Jerry]

Just now, Darbsk said:

Yep, Texans are a shambles though I still think they both are very good QBs just with poor teams round them, kind of a Carr '17, '18 and '19 situation. Matt Ryan to Chicago is a trade I think works for both and would live to see, the Bears could be SB contenders with Ryan.

I agree. Ryan needs a better OC. Watson is proof good/great QBs arent enough to win games. That team has imploded. 

[Darbsk]

Its kind of strange for me that all the older entrenched QBs I grew up with are all fading away now or gone and being replaced by a new generation, guys like Brees, Brady, Rivers, Palmer, Romo, Eli and Payton Manning and of course Rodgers and Roethlisburger must be nearing the end too. Gonna be very strange with all those guys gone.

[big_palooka]

16 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

Its kind of strange for me that all the older entrenched QBs I grew up with are all fading away now or gone and being replaced by a new generation, guys like Brees, Brady, Rivers, Palmer, Romo, Eli and Payton Manning and of course Rodgers and Roethlisburger must be nearing the end too. Gonna be very strange with all those guys gone.

Fitzpatrick will still be playing at 55. 

[Darbsk]

29 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Fitzpatrick will still be playing at 55. 

And maybe Josh McCown too 😁

[NYRaider]

5 hours ago, Jerry said:

Matt Ryan is on the hot seat apparently and Deshaun Watson's stats have really dropped off without Hopkins. TOP 3 WRs help and he no longer has one.

Watson threw for 3,850 yards (67% comp | 7.8 Y/A), 26 TD, 12 INT last season.

And is on pace for 4,650 yards (66% comp | 8.9 Y/A), 29 TD, 16 INT this year. 

The only reason he's getting hate is because they're 1-4. 

 

[NYRaider]

5 hours ago, Jerry said:

I agree. Ryan needs a better OC. Watson is proof good/great QBs arent enough to win games. That team has imploded. 

Houston has had an extremely tough schedule to start the season though. And I think some of the expectations for them coming into the year were a little inflated because they've been able to mask some of the deficiencies over the past couple of years with a soft schedule. 15/21 of their wins in 2018 and 2019 came against teams that finished below .500. 

[Jerry]

9 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Watson threw for 3,850 yards (67% comp | 7.8 Y/A), 26 TD, 12 INT last season.

And is on pace for 4,650 yards (66% comp | 8.9 Y/A), 29 TD, 16 INT this year. 

The only reason he's getting hate is because they're 1-4. 

 

Thanks for the information.  I don't personally think he's a bad QB, I'm just using him as a perfect example of a good QB who people are going to say isn't doing his job because his team is 1-4.  It's like DC last year or 2015, 2017.  Derek Carr had good stats those seasons but didn't have the teams needed to win more games.  It's just crazy to see his stats compared to DC's stats and see that DC is actually having a better season this year (IMO anyway).

Edited October 13, 2020 by Jerry

[Jerry]

4 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Houston has had an extremely tough schedule to start the season though. And I think some of the expectations for them coming into the year were a little inflated because they've been able to mask some of the deficiencies over the past couple of years with a soft schedule. 15/21 of their wins in 2018 and 2019 came against teams that finished below .500. 

I agree with this as well.  They regressed during the offseason.  Losing Clowney and Hopkins is going to hurt.  This also makes me think about our 3 wins so far.  We beat the 3-2 Panthers, 3-2 Saints, and 4-1 Chiefs.  We lost to a 2-2 Patriots team while we had Ruggs out, Edwards go down, two starting OL down as well.  Then we lost to Buffalo with pretty much the same situation.  Just so happy we are competing against some really good competition this year.

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Jerry said:

Thanks for the information.  I don't personally think he's a bad QB, I'm just using him as a perfect example a good QB who people are going to say isn't doing his job because his team is 1-4.  It's like DC last year or 2015, 2017.  Derek Carr had good stats those seasons but didn't have the teams needed to win more games.  It's just crazy to see his stats compared to DC's stats and see that DC is actually having a better season this year (IMO anyway).

Watson is still an elite quarterback and has played pretty well this season. Like you said though I think Houston's performance so far is a perfect testament to the fact that having an elite QB isn't enough to win games. He was widely considered a top 5 or 6 QB coming into the season and is on pace for his best season yet Houston is still 1-4 because their defense is terrible, they have the worst running game in the league, and a bottom 3 offensive line. 

[Jerry]

4 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Watson is still an elite quarterback and has played pretty well this season. Like you said though I think Houston's performance so far is a perfect testament to the fact that having an elite QB isn't enough to win games. He was widely considered a top 5 or 6 QB coming into the season and is on pace for his best season yet Houston is still 1-4 because their defense is terrible, they have the worst running game in the league, and a bottom 3 offensive line. 

Exactly.  People always argue that the "elite" QBs can take their teams to the playoffs no matter how bad their teams are and yet we see teams with "elite" QBs have losing seasons.  Packers are a perfect example, had losing seasons in 2017 and 2018 and I'm pretty sure people think Aaron Rodgers is an "elite" QB.  Same with Drew Brees when he was at the pinnacle of his abilities.  You need a run game, you need a defense, you need to win the turnover battle. 

On another note, our season will be lost if we don't start getting turnovers, and I think we need to start by putting Jeff Heath in over Erik Harris and looking into possibly playing some of our backup DL that played in KC.  They did alright.  Ferrell is starting to wake up too.  If our defense wakes up during the bye, we can literally win 10+ games.  I keep staring at our schedule and I really think we can do it.  I think after our next KC game (week 11) we might be able to win out (Falcons, Jets, Colts at home, Chargers, Dolphins, Broncos).  We also have the Broncos and Chargers before that KC game.  I think we can sweep the Chargers and Broncos.  I know that seems crazy but I believe it.  That's 8 wins possibly.  If we beat either the Bucs, Chiefs, or Browns, we can literally go 12-4 with our final two losses coming from either the Bucs, Chiefs, or Browns.  Its wishful thinking right now, but man I am just so freaking hyped after this win over KC.

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Exactly.  People always argue that the "elite" QBs can take their teams to the playoffs no matter how bad their teams are and yet we see teams with "elite" QBs have losing seasons.  Packers are a perfect example, had losing seasons in 2017 and 2018 and I'm pretty sure people think Aaron Rodgers is an "elite" QB.  Same with Drew Brees when he was at the pinnacle of his abilities.  You need a run game, you need a defense, you need to win the turnover battle. 

Yup. The Saints missed the playoffs 3 straight years despite Brees passing for 4,800+ yards and 30+ TD in each of those seasons. And the Packers missed the playoffs in 2018 despite Rodgers throwing for 4,400 yards 25 TD and only 2 INT. 

And when you look at the QB's that have come into the league recently and are considered "elite" they all came into good situations. Mahomes came into a situation with the most talented offense in the league around him and they weren't able to get over the hump until their defense improved. Dak came into an offense with an elite running game and offensive line plus a defense that never allowed more than 21 ppg in his first 4 seasons. And then guys like Jackson and Wilson both went to situations where they had an elite defense to lean on.

5 minutes ago, Jerry said:

On another note, our season will be lost if we don't start getting turnovers, and I think we need to start by putting Jeff Heath in over Erik Harris and looking into possibly playing some of our backup DL that played in KC.  They did alright.  Ferrell is starting to wake up too.  If our defense wakes up during the bye, we can literally win 10+ games.  I keep staring at our schedule and I really think we can do it.  I think after our next KC game (week 11) we might be able to win out (Falcons, Jets, Colts at home, Chargers, Dolphins, Broncos).  We also have the Broncos and Chargers before that KC game.  I think we can sweep the Chargers and Broncos.  I know that seems crazy but I believe it.  That's 8 wins possibly.  If we beat either the Bucs, Chiefs, or Browns, we can literally go 12-4 with our final two losses coming from either the Bucs, Chiefs, or Browns.  Its wishful thinking right now, but man I am just so freaking hyped after this win over KC.

Based on what Cowboys fans say about Heath I think he's pretty similar to Harris in that he'll make some splash plays but overall isn't very good. Ferrell and Crosby are both starting to play well and I loved how active our backup DL were. Hopefully Collins can wake up and start to make an impact on the interior of our DL because that'd help us out a lot. 

I'm not going to get my hopes up quiet yet because that's what I did last year when were 6-4 and had very winnable games on the horizon against the Jets, Broncos, and Jaguars. But we definitely have a chance at 10+ wins if the defense can be just average. I think how we play against TB after the bye week will be telling for how the rest of our season is going to go .