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The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...


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11 hours ago, Mr Raider said:

It is to a degree, but QBs naturally see a dip in completion percentage to some degree in the red zone. And with Carr, throwing into tight windows isn't exactly his biggest strength. And throws in the red zone are typically tight window throws a lot of the time. The field is condensed and the defense doesn't have to worry about anyone over the top. 

Not to mention Waller has never proven to be an elite red zone target, that isn't where Cooper is at his best either. Waller and Crabtree were quite clearly our 2 best red zone receiving threats in Carr's career, and I wouldn't say either is elite in that area. Outside of them we have had receivers that were at best good/solid in that area. 

Waller and Kelce were the 2nd and 3rd most targeted in the redzone Waller with 18 catches, Kelce with 13, that's five less catches for Kelce but he had 9tds to Wallers 6tds that's a direct result of Carr's futility inside the 10 yard line. 

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12 hours ago, raidr4life said:

Waller and Kelce were the 2nd and 3rd most targeted in the redzone Waller with 18 catches, Kelce with 13, that's five less catches for Kelce but he had 9tds to Wallers 6tds that's a direct result of Carr's futility inside the 10 yard line. 

Very interesting 

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12 hours ago, raidr4life said:

Waller and Kelce were the 2nd and 3rd most targeted in the redzone Waller with 18 catches, Kelce with 13, that's five less catches for Kelce but he had 9tds to Wallers 6tds that's a direct result of Carr's futility inside the 10 yard line. 

I mean, that could also be KC has a lot of talent to cover in the redzone, plus the threat of mahommes running it in, whereas vs the Raiders, take away the run game, double waller and youre pretty set haha. 

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1 hour ago, BackinBlack said:

I mean, that could also be KC has a lot of talent to cover in the redzone, plus the threat of mahommes running it in, whereas vs the Raiders, take away the run game, double waller and youre pretty set haha. 

Or it could be Carr has sucked in the redzone his entire career.

Look Carr is fine between the 20's but I always said he was lacking something, the it factor or the ability to take it when we need it, I couldn't put my finger on it, this stat illustrates his shortcoming he's among the worst in the redzone and it cost games. Like I said before if he ups his production from 12tds to 16-17 which is still below the best, that's a likely two extra wins.

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9 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Or it could be Carr has sucked in the redzone his entire career

Carr is the only constant thing eventually after you exhaust every possible excuse it still comes back to carr because literally everything has changed except him. Coaches, players owners, gms  etc 

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8 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Carr is the only constant thing eventually after you exhaust every possible excuse it still comes back to carr because literally everything has changed except him. Coaches, players owners, gms  etc 

Just a warning. Carr homers are very sensitive.

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28 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Or it could be Carr has sucked in the redzone his entire career.

Look Carr is fine between the 20's but I always said he was lacking something, the it factor or the ability to take it when we need it, I couldn't put my finger on it, this stat illustrates his shortcoming he's among the worst in the redzone and it cost games. Like I said before if he ups his production from 12tds to 16-17 which is still below the best, that's a likely two extra wins.

haha for sure. 
I guess my point was, using, KC or specifically Mahommes Kelce, as a shot against Carr, seems a little irrelevant to me. 
Mahommes is probably the best QB in the NFL.
Kelce is probably the best TE in the NFL.

I would expect those 2 to have better numbers than Carr in the Redzone, where I agree he needs to be better. 


But comparing Carr and Waller to, what is potentially the best redzone duo in the NFL, and then saying, see its clearly all Carrs fault is a lousy argument.

 

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14 hours ago, raidr4life said:

Waller and Kelce were the 2nd and 3rd most targeted in the redzone Waller with 18 catches, Kelce with 13, that's five less catches for Kelce but he had 9tds to Wallers 6tds that's a direct result of Carr's futility inside the 10 yard line

also these numbers are from the redzone, and you use it to claim Carrs bad inside the 10 yard line. 
Lets looks at Waller vs Kelce, from inside the 10, since that is the point YOU were trying to make;

Waller - 11 targets, 9 catches, 6 TDs
Kelce - 13 targets, 8 catches, 7 TDs

So, inside the 10, Waller and Carr were essentialy just as effective. LOL


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/redzone-receiving.htm

 





 

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17 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

also these numbers are from the redzone, and you use it to claim Carrs bad inside the 10 yard line. 
Lets looks at Waller vs Kelce, from inside the 10, since that is the point YOU were trying to make;

Waller - 11 targets, 9 catches, 6 TDs
Kelce - 13 targets, 8 catches, 7 TDs

So, inside the 10, Waller and Carr were essentialy just as effective. LOL


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/redzone-receiving.htm

 





 

Very True accurate redzone stats

waller 22 targets 18 catches 6 tds

Kelce  20 targets 13 catches 9 tds

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Found this chart, not sure how accurate this is but some things are interesting;
https://subscribers.footballguys.com/teams/teampage-rai-3.php

Ruggs only had 2 redzone atempts all year. Hill on KC had 22, we drafted ruggs to be our Hill, we have to use him in the redzone. Speed kills, find a way to use it. 

Waller had 24 chances, where our next best was agholor as 12. 
Of 59 attempts to WR or TEs, 24 of them went to Waller. That is way to predictable. Need to spread the ball more. 

Says Carr had 96 chances, 27 to WRs, 32 to TEs, not sure how many to RBs, but i dont think it would be a ton, which means that Close to 1/3 of Carrs Redzone throws, are throw aways. Has to imrpove on this. Let the play develop a little longer, or have a rb in the flat, something to get that number way better. 

Foster Moreau, only getting 1 attempt is a joke. 

-
Not sure how accurate, could very easily be wrong but it is interesting I think

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Waller has always been a top redzone target. One of the best in the NFL. Carr fans always try to do stuff like this. “Waller isn’t a good redzone target!”. Bull****, Carr just isn’t good in the redzone. Waller would be even better in the redzone with a better QB. 
 

Same stuff with Ruggs. “Ruggs sucks!”. I guarantee the day we get a better QB, who likes throwing deep, Ruggs will breakout with 1100 yards and 8 TDs, while being one of the best deep threats in the league. 
 

I also don’t want to hear that this is on Gruden. Carr has hated going deep since college. He’ll do it if the guy is wide-wide open. An interview in 2018 is what really soured me on Carr, he was asked why he never goes deep, and his response was “You shouldn’t go deep more than once a game as teams will be ready for it”. It was that statement that left my jaw dropped and I lost a little respect for the guy. 
 

Don’t get me wrong, Carr had a solid 2020 and I think he is a fine QB, but @NCOUGHMAN can certainly agree that Carr is no dog. He plays super safe and takes only what is given. 

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hahah if that is in response to me; in no way did I say Waller isnt a good redzone target LOL. Waller is a stud. 
Ruggs could still break out at any time.  . . hes played 1 season LOL. If Agholor can put up decent stats with Carr, than I imagine Ruggs will be able too as wel, needs more opportunities. 

Do you have a link to that interview?

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4 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

hahah if that is in response to me; in no way did I say Waller isnt a good redzone target LOL. Waller is a stud. 
Ruggs could still break out at any time.  . . hes played 1 season LOL. If Agholor can put up decent stats with Carr, than I imagine Ruggs will be able too as wel, needs more opportunities. 

Do you have a link to that interview?

Nope, wasn’t a response to you. I didn’t even read any of your posts in here. I think it was a few pages back a couple of Raider fans made the comment. 
 

The interview was a 2018 post-game interview in the locker room. It was mid-season. I tried to find it a year back but to no avail. I was already starting to sour on Carr because of his 2017 and 2018 play (he was a Bottom 5-6 QB in 2018, specifically for that season alone) but that interview really set me over the edge. 
 

I like dogs at all positions including QB. Carr definitely is the furthest thing from one.

Edited by BayRaider
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