The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[Jeremy408]

Just now, NYRaider said:

The Brady effect was on full display in Tampa last season. 

I notice you didn't answer my question. lol

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Jeremy408 said:

I notice you didn't answer my question. lol

Bucs defense was horrible in 2019 then became very good in 2020. Having to practice against Brady made them better. 

[Jeremy408]

3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Bucs defense was horrible in 2019 then became very good in 2020. Having to practice against Brady made them better. 

 Do we have a defensive player of the year on our team? How about a pro bowler? Aren't we all clamoring over each other for Suh this offseason? he was just one of the many players on that defense.

But again that still doesn't answer my question

Edited June 12, 2021 by Jeremy408

[NYRaider]

18 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

 Do we have a defensive player of the year on our team? How about a pro bowler? Aren't we all clamoring over each other for Suh this offseason? he was just one of the many players on that defense.

But again that still doesn't answer my question

I would rather have Tom Brady then Derek Carr, do you think we miss the playoffs if we had Brady/Gronk instead of Carr/Witten last season?

[ronjon1990]

41 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I would rather have Tom Brady then Derek Carr, do you think we miss the playoffs if we had Brady/Gronk instead of Carr/Witten last season?

Actually.....yes, I certainly do. 

Even with how good the Bucs wound up being, they looked pretty mortal early on and had some tough losses and close calls. 

That, despite also having a ballsy HC (which Gruden is not), Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Scottie Miller, Antonio Brown, Ronald Jones, Leonard Fournette, and Cameron Brate (who got more run than Witten did)....and that's just listing offensive skill players. We might have the superior player in Waller > Gronkowski, but not a single one of our other skill players or combos (Jacobs/Booker might be an honest wash vs Jones/Fournette, but I know I'd take Jones/Fournette myself) hold a candle to what Tampa had. And what's more, Brady attracted Brown who came in late, Gronk who wasn't particularly dominant, and their 2nd RB who finally caught some steam.  The bulk was there before Brady because Tampa Bay has competent leadership in the FO. 

And that's only listing the offensive skill players. They went 11-6. Without that TOP TIER D, does that offense go 11-6 alone, or do they struggle for 9-7 or worse? Almost assuredly the latter. Stick Brady with the guys we have on both sides of the ball, we're still fighting for 9-7 if not hoping to break even at 8-8.

You're really overhyping the "effect" and discounting just how much better the Buccaneers are than the Raiders, even when removing Brady from the equation. 

If their D doesn't bail Tom out against Green Bay and absolutely merc Mahomes into irrelevancy for an entire game, Tampa goes down as the team that won a bad division that missed it's other superstar (Brees) and barely squeaked by the Washington Football Team and their 10th string QB before being annihilated by a legitimate contender. 

Edited June 12, 2021 by ronjon1990

[Jeremy408]

46 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I would rather have Tom Brady then Derek Carr, do you think we miss the playoffs if we had Brady/Gronk instead of Carr/Witten last season?

Still didn’t answer my question.

[Jeremy408]

17 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Actually.....yes, I certainly do. 

Even with how good the Bucs wound up being, they looked pretty mortal early on and had some tough losses and close calls. 

That, despite also having a ballsy HC (which Gruden is not), Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Scottie Miller, Antonio Brown, Ronald Jones, Leonard Fournette, and Cameron Brate (who got more run than Witten did)....and that's just listing offensive skill players. We might have the superior player in Waller > Gronkowski, but not a single one of our other skill players or combos (Jacobs/Booker might be an honest wash vs Jones/Fournette, but I know I'd take Jones/Fournette myself) hold a candle to what Tampa had. And what's more, Brady attracted Brown who came in late, Gronk who wasn't particularly dominant, and their 2nd RB who finally caught some steam.  The bulk was there before Brady because Tampa Bay has competent leadership in the FO. 

And that's only listing the offensive skill players. They went 11-6. Without that TOP TIER D, does that offense go 11-6 alone, or do they struggle for 9-7 or worse? Almost assuredly the latter. Stick Brady with the guys we have on both sides of the ball, we're still fighting for 9-7 if not hoping to break even at 8-8.

You're really overhyping the "effect" and discounting just how much better the Buccaneers are than the Raiders, even when removing Brady from the equation. 

The reason why you even make a move for someone like Brady or Manning is because you have a talented roster on both sides of the ball like the Bucs had where you basically come to the conclusion that if your quarterback doesn’t throw 30 interceptions(Jameis) or and throw more than 12 touchdowns(Tebow) you would be a contender.

If the Raiders had that and we’re still losing I wouldn’t be saying anything. But the reality is if you look throughout the years they’ve never had that type of talent. 
 

Thinking the Raiders are a quarterback away is nonsense lol. I have no idea why this conversation comes up every year.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Jeremy408

[NYRaider]

14 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

The reason why you even make a move for someone like Brady or Manning is because you have a talented roster on both sides of the ball like the Bucs had where you basically come to the conclusion that if your quarterback doesn’t throw 30 interceptions(Jameis) or and throw more than 12 touchdowns(Tebow) you would be a contender.

If the Raiders had that and we’re still losing I wouldn’t be saying anything. But the reality is if you look throughout the years they’ve never had that type of talent. 

Thinking the Raiders are a quarterback away is nonsense lol. I have no idea why this conversation comes up every year.

It's a make or break year for Carr if he doesn't get us to the playoffs he's going to be replaced. Would've preferred 2-3 years of Brady over 2-3 years of Carr. 

[NYRaider]

20 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

Still didn’t answer my question.

Tampa had more talent but their defense was horrible in 2019. 

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, Jeremy408 said:

Thinking the Raiders are a quarterback away is nonsense lol. I have no idea why this conversation comes up every year.

Easy: people have absolute love affairs with quarterbacks and Madden and fantasy football. 

2, 3 years ago (laughably) some people were screaming Tank for Tua. Inevitably, someone will get some attention at the college level and we'll see some slogan around these parts quite often. 

Further, there's the weird prevailing opinion that only elite QBs can make it to a  Superbowl. This, despite some of the recent QBs to win or make it to a conference championship including: Jimmy Garopppollo, an ancient Carson Palmer, a one hit wonder Cam Newton, the animated corpse of Peyton Manning via Brock Osweiler, Nick Foles via Great Value Prince Harry, Case Keenum, Blake Bortles, Jared Goff, not peak form Brady, and Ryan Tannehill. Some of them actually WON the damn Superbowl too! 

Patrick Mahomes goes to 2 and wins 1 and all of a sudden you need a supernova QB to win anything? Really? Come on! Carr is a QB who plays at a level that 100% could make it to, and possibly win, a Superbowl with a solid D (ironically, what most of the guys listed had) and average weapons. 

It's jealousy, my friend. If Pat Mahomes isn't a superstar videogame come to life and/or KC is still trotting out Alex Smith, Derek Carr is considered the best QB in the division (pending how Herbert does) and we're probably not having this discussion. 

Ask them who they'd REALISTICALLY rather have than Carr, and they'll typically wilt. 

Some might say Brady, but was that ever realistic? By that, I mean it was a bit of a shock that he left New England and not something teams spent much time preparing for beforehand. 

Mahomes? He was a stroke of absolute brilliance that we weren't in position to draft anyway. (I still wonder how long the magic lasts, if I'm being honest. Not that he'll bust, but his career has largely been defined by 1 super season and a couple of early Superbowl appearances. There will almost certainly be a lull at some point.).

What other QB has hit the market? Who would we have drafted or been in position to? Take away the unrealistic superstar QBs nobody saw being available to us, and the list of (insert name here) > Derek Carr grows really short, really fast. 

Edited June 12, 2021 by ronjon1990

[Frankie2Gunz]

6 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

@Frankie2Gunz See what I mean? lol. It always comes down to this for Raider fans. 

There are a few of those clowns out there.  It's like the old saying says, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink". 

We've explained the situation a million times on here but some people can't grasp reality.  I literally put zero value into anything someone who believes wins and losses are solely attributed to how good a QB is.  Maybe these guys should explain their logic to the HOF, which has a QB inducted who has a losing record as a starter (Warren Moon).  If what NYRaider says is true Moon should not be in the HOF. 

Edited June 13, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz

[Frankie2Gunz]

6 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I would rather have Tom Brady then Derek Carr, do you think we miss the playoffs if we had Brady/Gronk instead of Carr/Witten last season?

Do you care to explain why Brady averaged 26/10 TD/Int his last two years in NE?  You can't really think an immobile 43 YO QB who throws for 26/10 would have taken us to the playoffs with one of the worst D's in the league.  You can't be serious...

Edited June 13, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz

[Jeremy408]

5 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Easy: people have absolute love affairs with quarterbacks and Madden and fantasy football. 

2, 3 years ago (laughably) some people were screaming Tank for Tua. Inevitably, someone will get some attention at the college level and we'll see some slogan around these parts quite often. 

Further, there's the weird prevailing opinion that only elite QBs can make it to a  Superbowl. This, despite some of the recent QBs to win or make it to a conference championship including: Jimmy Garopppollo, an ancient Carson Palmer, a one hit wonder Cam Newton, the animated corpse of Peyton Manning via Brock Osweiler, Nick Foles via Great Value Prince Harry, Case Keenum, Blake Bortles, Jared Goff, not peak form Brady, and Ryan Tannehill. Some of them actually WON the damn Superbowl too! 

Patrick Mahomes goes to 2 and wins 1 and all of a sudden you need a supernova QB to win anything? Really? Come on! Carr is a QB who plays at a level that 100% could make it to, and possibly win, a Superbowl with a solid D (ironically, what most of the guys listed had) and average weapons. 

It's jealousy, my friend. If Pat Mahomes isn't a superstar videogame come to life and/or KC is still trotting out Alex Smith, Derek Carr is considered the best QB in the division (pending how Herbert does) and we're probably not having this discussion. 

Ask them who they'd REALISTICALLY rather have than Carr, and they'll typically wilt. 

Some might say Brady, but was that ever realistic? By that, I mean it was a bit of a shock that he left New England and not something teams spent much time preparing for beforehand. 

Mahomes? He was a stroke of absolute brilliance that we weren't in position to draft anyway. (I still wonder how long the magic lasts, if I'm being honest. Not that he'll bust, but his career has largely been defined by 1 super season and a couple of early Superbowl appearances. There will almost certainly be a lull at some point.).

What other QB has hit the market? Who would we have drafted or been in position to? Take away the unrealistic superstar QBs nobody saw being available to us, and the list of (insert name here) > Derek Carr grows really short, really fast. 

I don’t think you can put it better than that

Edited June 13, 2021 by Jeremy408

[MrOaktown_56]

5 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Easy: people have absolute love affairs with quarterbacks and Madden and fantasy football. 

2, 3 years ago (laughably) some people were screaming Tank for Tua. Inevitably, someone will get some attention at the college level and we'll see some slogan around these parts quite often. 

Further, there's the weird prevailing opinion that only elite QBs can make it to a  Superbowl. This, despite some of the recent QBs to win or make it to a conference championship including: Jimmy Garopppollo, an ancient Carson Palmer, a one hit wonder Cam Newton, the animated corpse of Peyton Manning via Brock Osweiler, Nick Foles via Great Value Prince Harry, Case Keenum, Blake Bortles, Jared Goff, not peak form Brady, and Ryan Tannehill. Some of them actually WON the damn Superbowl too! 

Patrick Mahomes goes to 2 and wins 1 and all of a sudden you need a supernova QB to win anything? Really? Come on! Carr is a QB who plays at a level that 100% could make it to, and possibly win, a Superbowl with a solid D (ironically, what most of the guys listed had) and average weapons. 

It's jealousy, my friend. If Pat Mahomes isn't a superstar videogame come to life and/or KC is still trotting out Alex Smith, Derek Carr is considered the best QB in the division (pending how Herbert does) and we're probably not having this discussion. 

Ask them who they'd REALISTICALLY rather have than Carr, and they'll typically wilt. 

Some might say Brady, but was that ever realistic? By that, I mean it was a bit of a shock that he left New England and not something teams spent much time preparing for beforehand. 

Mahomes? He was a stroke of absolute brilliance that we weren't in position to draft anyway. (I still wonder how long the magic lasts, if I'm being honest. Not that he'll bust, but his career has largely been defined by 1 super season and a couple of early Superbowl appearances. There will almost certainly be a lull at some point.).

What other QB has hit the market? Who would we have drafted or been in position to? Take away the unrealistic superstar QBs nobody saw being available to us, and the list of (insert name here) > Derek Carr grows really short, really fast. 

Tua was shaky as hell in most of the games I watched of him, if we're being honest. He's gonna need to fight to live up to that draft status IMO.

[Jeremy408]

1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

There are a few of those clowns out there.  It's like the old saying says, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink". 

We've explained the situation a million times on here but some people can't grasp reality.  I literally put zero value into anything someone who believes wins and losses are solely attributed to how good a QB is.  Maybe these guys should explain their logic to the HOF, which has a QB inducted who has a losing record as a starter (Warren Moon).  If what NYRaider says is true Moon should not be in the HOF. 

It’s even more practical than that: People wanted Deshaun Watson. If Quarterbacks are what carry the team to the playoffs regardless of the rest of the roster then why were the Texans so bad last year?