bucksavage1 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 3 hours ago, dante9876 said: Carr would have to totally flop to get replace by mariota by week 5. All this talk about how hard Gruden system is to learn and we think mariota with maybe a shortened offseason is gonna be ready week 5 to lead the offense. I doubt that alot. As far as what kinda numbers carr needs to put up to keep his job or be deem successful or whatever. I honestly dont know. I want to see improvement on the numbers from last year. But biggest thing for me is, i want him to look like a qb we can win a superbowl with. I want him to stand strong in pocket and let deep routes develop and wait that extra second to go down field. I want him to not checkdown so fast in his progressions. I want him to throw with anticipation and throw wrs open more. I want him to be willing to take a hit to make a throw more often. I want him to not to give up on plays. I want him to will them to wins. I want a better, more experienced, less conservative version of 2016 Carr. I think what Gruden likes out of Mariota is the ability to make something on fly if the play breaks down. Something that Carr doesn't have which Gruden wants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 16 hours ago, massraider said: I was horsing around on Player Profiler, looking at various QB metrics they have. Carr performs very well in most categories I looked at, aside from the Y/A stuff. https://www.playerprofiler.com/data-analysis/ 23rd in 'interceptable passes'. (1 is bad, 32 is great). 10th in dropped passes. 59% red Zone Completion% (near Rodgers/Wentz/Cousins). 5th in Clean Pocket Completion%. 2nd behind Brees in True Completion%. 6th in True Passer Rating. 2nd in Accuracy Rating. Carr's unwillingness to chuck it deep, I wonder if it's a fatal flaw. He does almost everything well you can measure a QB at, he just doesn't throw it deep. At this point, I'm like, OK, he doesn't like to throw it deep. What else can't he do/does he not do? Not sure what else there is. Intangibles, lack of magic, I guess? Going by the metrics, I don't see an easily replaceable QB. Hardly ever throws outside the numbers to his left. He does not like attacking good corners. Giving his receivers a chance to make a play. Does not throw receivers open. Does not allow plays to develop. Will not fight thru contact. Horrible situational awareness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massraider Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 26 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: Hardly ever throws outside the numbers to his left. He does not like attacking good corners. Giving his receivers a chance to make a play. Does not throw receivers open. Does not allow plays to develop. Will not fight thru contact. Horrible situational awareness. Hmmm. All problems that cannot be measured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massraider Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 Derek Carr's accuracy in 2019: Short - 91.8% (15th out of 29 quarterbacks) Underneath - 86.7% (3rd) Intermediate - 72.3% (3rd) Deep - 55.6% (2nd) Total - 69.4% (1st) https://t.co/WztSC5bNVQ https://t.co/r4IItDwwFV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolni Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 I hope Gruden shocks the NFL with some double QB staff! Give me some 2 QB back fields and make some creative stuff happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 4 hours ago, massraider said: Hmmm. All problems that cannot be measured. They can't necessarily be measured, but there is some merit. As far as the WR stuff goes, that's why some of us have banged the table for some actual WR talent. He made things happen with Crabtree and Cooper, and Crabs was never a top tier bonafide 1 and Cooper had some Roberts level headscratchers in the drops department. The last couple years have seen us trotting out piecemeal WRs and PS caliber guys. This year and going forward, the onus is now on Carr to fix those problems if they persist. Our WR corps is a legitimate one now. As for the situational awareness, some may have fallen on the lack of trustable weapons. But there's a lot of times Carr just didn't try and opted to be over-conservative. The "not fighting through contact" bit though? He's a QB. I don't want my QB "fighting through contact", especially when my backup options are McCarron, Glennon, Peterman, Kizer, etc. There's some things he should be able to work out this year if he's good enough to. He's now the common denominator. But there's othet nitpicky things people want to jump his bones about that make legitimate criticisms of him virtually impossible to digest. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massraider Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 4 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: They can't necessarily be measured, but there is some merit. As far as the WR stuff goes, that's why some of us have banged the table for some actual WR talent. He made things happen with Crabtree and Cooper, and Crabs was never a top tier bonafide 1 and Cooper had some Roberts level headscratchers in the drops department. The last couple years have seen us trotting out piecemeal WRs and PS caliber guys. This year and going forward, the onus is now on Carr to fix those problems if they persist. Our WR corps is a legitimate one now. As for the situational awareness, some may have fallen on the lack of trustable weapons. But there's a lot of times Carr just didn't try and opted to be over-conservative. The "not fighting through contact" bit though? He's a QB. I don't want my QB "fighting through contact", especially when my backup options are McCarron, Glennon, Peterman, Kizer, etc. There's some things he should be able to work out this year if he's good enough to. He's now the common denominator. But there's othet nitpicky things people want to jump his bones about that make legitimate criticisms of him virtually impossible to digest. I don't think Carr is special, he hasn't shown any magic, as far as I'm concerned. I would have loved Hurts, even at 19. Love, Herbert can suck it. But if Carr was a BAD quarterback, there would be stats to back that up. There really isn't. By the way, not arguing with you, just fleshing out my thoughts. We can win with him. I believe that. I don't think we can win with him in shootouts. I think we can win with him like SF wins with Jimmy G. And Carr might be a better passer. Also, not for nothing, but that WR room has a TON to prove. We have Waller, and Renfrow. If Tyrell is back to SD form, and Ruggs and/or Edwards are good, you are right. But we have more questions than answers right now. Any of these new faces can suck. If they suck, it isn't Carr's fault. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 10 hours ago, drfrey13 said: Hardly ever throws outside the numbers to his left. He does not like attacking good corners. Giving his receivers a chance to make a play. Does not throw receivers open. Does not allow plays to develop. Will not fight thru contact. Horrible situational awareness. This is why i scream watch how he plays, people want to throw out stats all day, but i've seen lesser talented QB's do those things better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 hour ago, massraider said: I don't think Carr is special, he hasn't shown any magic, as far as I'm concerned. I would have loved Hurts, even at 19. Love, Herbert can suck it. But if Carr was a BAD quarterback, there would be stats to back that up. There really isn't. By the way, not arguing with you, just fleshing out my thoughts. We can win with him. I believe that. I don't think we can win with him in shootouts. I think we can win with him like SF wins with Jimmy G. And Carr might be a better passer. Also, not for nothing, but that WR room has a TON to prove. We have Waller, and Renfrow. If Tyrell is back to SD form, and Ruggs and/or Edwards are good, you are right. But we have more questions than answers right now. Any of these new faces can suck. If they suck, it isn't Carr's fault. Sure we can win with him if we have a stout defense and top running game, it's been proven teams can win SuperBowls with those 2 categories being top 5, but if Carr needs that then you are also saying he's just an average QB who needs everything around him. Carr supporters say he's more than that, and he looked like it in 2016, but the last 2 years he's lost that aggressiveness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) +Carr also doesn't extend plays beyond the 1st read. If the play breaks down he either throws it away, checks down. Gruden biggest vocal complaint + Carr also isn't productive redzone +Doesn't escape pressure +Awful vs winning teams +Awful in games 40 degrees or below + 2nd worst record in NFL history after 6 seasons of starting. Edited May 10, 2020 by bucksavage1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 6 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: They can't necessarily be measured, but there is some merit. As far as the WR stuff goes, that's why some of us have banged the table for some actual WR talent. He made things happen with Crabtree and Cooper, and Crabs was never a top tier bonafide 1 and Cooper had some Roberts level headscratchers in the drops department. The last couple years have seen us trotting out piecemeal WRs and PS caliber guys. This year and going forward, the onus is now on Carr to fix those problems if they persist. Our WR corps is a legitimate one now. As for the situational awareness, some may have fallen on the lack of trustable weapons. But there's a lot of times Carr just didn't try and opted to be over-conservative. The "not fighting through contact" bit though? He's a QB. I don't want my QB "fighting through contact", especially when my backup options are McCarron, Glennon, Peterman, Kizer, etc. There's some things he should be able to work out this year if he's good enough to. He's now the common denominator. But there's othet nitpicky things people want to jump his bones about that make legitimate criticisms of him virtually impossible to digest. Excellent post, articulated pretty much what I think the issues have been. Only thing I'd say is we optimistically believe we've vastly upgraded the receivers through the draft but as they are rookies it's not a lock that they will be stars and produce right off the bat......maybe we're expecting a little much from them? I hope they can deliver 😀 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Darbsk said: Excellent post, articulated pretty much what I think the issues have been. Only thing I'd say is we optimistically believe we've vastly upgraded the receivers through the draft but as they are rookies it's not a lock that they will be stars and produce right off the bat......maybe we're expecting a little much from them? I hope they can deliver 😀 Definitely. Just because we drafted 2 guys doesn't automatically mean the group is good now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 2 hours ago, oakdb36 said: Definitely. Just because we drafted 2 guys doesn't automatically mean the group is good now. So how do we decide when its the wrs or the qb that is the problem?? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justwinning Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 4 hours ago, bucksavage1 said: +Carr also doesn't extend plays beyond the 1st read. If the play breaks down he either throws it away, checks down. Gruden biggest vocal complaint + Carr also isn't productive redzone +Doesn't escape pressure +Awful vs winning teams +Awful in games 40 degrees or below + 2nd worst record in NFL history after 6 seasons of starting. Context His rookie year and 2018, where he had absolutely nothing to work with, accounted for 25 of his losses. The stats are obviously skewed. W/L is a team record. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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