The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[BackinBlack]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

I agree with Rich. W/L is a QB stat.... come at me. The good ones always have their team in a position to win. 

It’s a stat sure, but you shouldn’t judge players on stats. 
there should always be context to go with any stat. 
 

if you make judgements/ decision because of stats you often miss the whole story. 
 

example; Derek Carr has the most comeback wins since entering the league. 
 

that is a stat. Or it’s something close to that.

but the fact we are always losing, means that literally any of his wins is most likely a comeback win lol

[NYRaider]

Watching Jimmy G play makes me like Carr more.

[MrOaktown_56]

16 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Watching Jimmy G play makes me like Carr more.

He's really not good. Hard to see a guy doing less with what he has. Shanny wanted Kirk and he would be a massive improvement.

[Jerry]

23 hours ago, SimonGruber said:

Don’t even need to read the tweets from the Super Pro Carr clan . I’m guessing a lot of 5 int in Super Bowl respondes

 

That's exactly what they said.  I like DC but man do some fans go way overboard.

[Jeremy408]

17 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Watching Jimmy G play makes me like Carr more.

 

 

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

21 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

It’s a stat sure, but you shouldn’t judge players on stats. 
there should always be context to go with any stat. 
 

if you make judgements/ decision because of stats you often miss the whole story. 
 

example; Derek Carr has the most comeback wins since entering the league. 
 

that is a stat. Or it’s something close to that.

but the fact we are always losing, means that literally any of his wins is most likely a comeback win lol

Tom Brady has won 6 Superbowls. It’s the only stat I judge him on. All other stats are meaningless to me.

[Darbsk]

On 12/23/2021 at 11:51 PM, big_palooka said:

I agree with Rich. W/L is a QB stat.... come at me. The good ones always have their team in a position to win. 

Not Really sure what you mean by 'come at me' but in my humble opinion using wins/losses as a stat for an individual player in a team sport is illogical and misguided and totally lacking context. Sure, if all teams were equal in defence and OL and skill position players then you could and it would make sense but there's just too many moving parts.

I really like Rich Gannon but don't agree in this instance. If that were the case Mac Jones is theoretically better than any number of higher profile QBs when its absolutely obvious he's being carried by a very good team and just doing enough. I despise Deshaun Watson but last year he was great and yet his team only won four games, Matt Ryan gas been super consistent and yet Atlanta are nowhere, he didn't suddenly fall off a cliff after his MVP, his support team for worse. Matt Stafford and Jarrod Goff are the perfect example being played out before our eyes of why the team, coaching, leadership and organisation make all the difference. Goff didn't suddenly become a terrible QB, he was always average but in a good team and then stuck in a bad one. Stafford didn't suddenly become a 'winner'.......he just went to a better team. Jimmy G is not a better QB than Russell Wilson, Wilson's supporting team has just gotten worse and on and on............

Carr is a polarising figure and he has many faults aswell as strengths, we could potentially do better of course and I'm not against trading him if we have a viable long term plan. I don't think any QB currently playing would have a winning record playing for this franchise from 2014 onwards, maybe Wilson or Rodgers or maybe they would have requested a trade ages ago more likely and been malcontent.

[BobbyPhil1781]

3 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Not Really sure what you mean by 'come at me' but in my humble opinion using wins/losses as a stat for an individual player in a team sport is illogical and misguided and totally lacking context. 

I actually started a thread in NFL gen about this and majority think the way you do. If we're playing tennis or bowling, yes, it makes sense but the QB doesn't even play on one side of the ball lol. Not only that, think of the Buffalo/NE game earlier this year. Mac threw 3 passes and the team won. Yeah, let's give him the W.

It's an outdated, lazy way of thinking. 

[BackinBlack]

17 hours ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

Tom Brady has won 6 Superbowls. It’s the only stat I judge him on. All other stats are meaningless to me.

Obviously winning the super bowl is the ultimate goal. And qb is the most important position. So I understand the Super Bowl winning QB stat. 
but to disregard say Dan Marino because he never won a SB would be foolish imo.

 

merry Christmas to Raider nation! Hope everyone has a good one!

[ronjon1990]

18 hours ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

Tom Brady has won 6 Superbowls. It’s the only stat I judge him on. All other stats are meaningless to me.

So Trent Dilfer is on equal footing with Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes and Russell Wilson and clearly a better QB than Deshaun Watson and Matt Ryan? 

[drfrey13]

13 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

So Trent Dilfer is on equal footing with Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes and Russell Wilson and clearly a better QB than Deshaun Watson and Matt Ryan? 

Judging a QB off of one season or one SB would be stupid but for a QB that is the unquestioned leader of the team with multiple SBs I would say the SBs carry a lot of weight.  Now they carried him the first one and you can argue the second but to have six is similar to being the leading passer and TDs thrown in a career which he is now.  Which is more impressive, all the records Favre held when he retired or Brady having 6 SB wins?

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

19 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

So Trent Dilfer is on equal footing with Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes and Russell Wilson and clearly a better QB than Deshaun Watson and Matt Ryan? 

Has nothing to do with who’s better than who. The discussion is solely about stats judging QB’s. I just used Brady as an example.

 

Just now, drfrey13 said:

Judging a QB off of one season or one SB would be stupid but for a QB that is the unquestioned leader of the team with multiple SBs I would say the SBs carry a lot of weight.  Now they carried him the first one and you can argue the second but to have six is similar to being the leading passer and TDs thrown in a career which he is now.  Which is more impressive, all the records Favre held when he retired or Brady having 6 SB wins?

6 SB wins 

[Rich7sena]

19 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

 

 

I don't think it's that hard to explain. Carr is more accurate, has a stronger arm, and is a better decision-maker. Garoppolo is a more limber athlete, but so is almost every starting quarterback when compared to Carr.

[BackinBlack]

1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

Judging a QB off of one season or one SB would be stupid but for a QB that is the unquestioned leader of the team with multiple SBs I would say the SBs carry a lot of weight.  Now they carried him the first one and you can argue the second but to have six is similar to being the leading passer and TDs thrown in a career which he is now.  Which is more impressive, all the records Favre held when he retired or Brady having 6 SB wins?

Was tom brady the unquestioned leader in NE ? Id say its at least questionable that Bill was the leader no?
 

[Bitty 2.0]

1 hour ago, Rich7sena said:

I don't think it's that hard to explain. Carr is more accurate, has a stronger arm, and is a better decision-maker. Garoppolo is a more limber athlete, but so is almost every starting quarterback when compared to Carr.

Which is weird because if you saw Carr playing basketball he's really good and athletic