The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[Geezy]

Carr ain’t go anywhere 

[SilverNBlackFan]

Nothing Carr has done the last 3 weeks surprises me or changes my long term outlook on him as a QB. 
 

Hes not a bad quarterback and i dont think any of his critics on this forum have said that. He’s definitely a solid player capable of having good to elite stretches. He will always put up pretty stats. Weve all seen this before over his 10 year run here. 
 

He will do enough to excite some and make them make excuses for giving him another year. “Well it is his first year in a new Offense” “We didn’t have Waller or Renfrow” “Look at the defense look at the Oline!”

Purgatory at its finest. Next year will come around and there will be the same recycled excuses to give him another year. He will always do enough to keep us from drafting high and replacing him.

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by SilverNBlackFan

[BackinBlack]

1 minute ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Nothing Carr has done the last 3 weeks surprises me or changes my long term outlook on him as a QB. 
 

Hes not a bad quarterback and i dont think any of his critics on this forum have said that. He’s definitely a solid player capable of having good to elite stretches. He will always put up pretty stats. Weve all seen this before over his 10 year run here. 
 

He will do enough to excite some and make them make excuses for giving him another year. “Well it is his first year in a new Offense” “We didn’t have Waller or Renfrow” “Look at the defense look at the Oline!”

Purgatory at its finest. Next year will come around and there will be the same recycled excuses. 

 

First bold - Yes, 100% they have. Also terms like softest qb in the league, biggest loser in nfl history, etc. 
Second Bold - Not always pretty stats, but he has always been far from our biggest problems. 

Excuses or logical explanations. Whatever, we can agree to disagree. I expected him to have a good year passing the ball, and lately he has been. It started out rough. No waller or renfrow hurts us. . Bad Ds have hurt us.
Our bad Oline is getting masked by Carr quick release, play calling and jacobs, as I precidicted in offseason. 

As ive always said, get out of top 5 in penalties, and build a respectable D, then make a move for your QB. 

To the last bold, sentences like this just make it seem like you are cheering for that to happen. 
If we address the D and shore up the Oline, I dont undertand why people think we wouldnt improve. 

[Darbsk]

Wow guys 326 pages and no sign of slowing 😂😂

Even if Carr plays for another ten years I don’t see us ever coming to a consensus on his play here

[big_palooka]

When you accept Carr is a top 10-12 passer and judge him for what he is, it's a lot easier.

He tends to lock onto his target and cam make some questionable throws. It's what keeps him in that tier of QB. He also has the ability to counter back and make plays that keep the team in games. 

Until there is a clear, viable upgrade you have to accept what he does well and where he lacks. And also adds to the resigning Jacobs argument as he's better with him when he's running well.

[drfrey13]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

When you accept Carr is a top 10-12 passer and judge him for what he is, it's a lot easier.

He tends to lock onto his target and cam make some questionable throws. It's what keeps him in that tier of QB. He also has the ability to counter back and make plays that keep the team in games. 

Until there is a clear, viable upgrade you have to accept what he does well and where he lacks. And also adds to the resigning Jacobs argument as he's better with him when he's running well.

He is not a bad player and not our biggest problem.  You can even argue he is a net positive.  My problem with Carr is the cost the next couple years.  A QB making that much can not just be a decent to good player.  If you are going to financial restrict the team from bringing in better players you need your play on the field to elevate lesser players to justify your contract.  A $40 million a year QB should not need receivers that average $50 million and then add on a $10 a year RB if we resign Jacobs.  We would be spending close to 45% of our cap on those 5 players.  People can defend Carr if they chose but do not bash the defense if we go this route because we will not have enough money to bring in the needed players.  For anyone saying our defense sucks I wonder why we rank 25th-30th on defense while ranking 30th in spending on defense.  In 2023 and 2024 we are ranked 29th.

[SilverNBlackFan]

Great post. This is what i think most dont understand and its maddening when the defense is solely blamed for our failures over the years as a team. No Carr is not the biggest problem on this team but hes a good but limited QB who needs alot around him. And that creates a very difficult long term formula to come up with to support him and his limitations and also have a well rounded team. 

Look at how the team has continuously been structured throughout the years to support a good but non elite QB in Carr.

2017 we were 2nd in total spending on Offense, 2018 we were 2nd as well. 2019 we were 6th. 2020 we were 2nd. 

Now we gave Carr his money, DA is like the highest paid WR in the league and deservedly so, Waller got paid, so did Renfrow and now we are most likely going to have to find a way to pay Jacobs top money to keep him because Carr hasnt shown to be able to play well this year when forced to be a pass first offense. But yet in every game day thread we are whining about Patrick Graham and why he can’t get borderline NFL players like Amik Robertson and Abram to play well…

Edited December 6, 2022 by SilverNBlackFan

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Great post. This is what i think most dont understand and its maddening when the defense is solely blamed for our failures over the years as a team. No Carr is not the biggest problem on this team but hes a good but limited QB who needs alot around him. And that creates a very difficult long term formula to come up with to support him and his limitations and also have a well rounded team. 

Look at how the team has continuously been structured throughout the years to support a good but non elite QB in Carr.

2017 we were 2nd in total spending on Offense, 2018 we were 2nd as well. 2019 we were 6th. 2020 we were 2nd. 

Now we gave Carr his money, DA is like the highest paid WR in the league and deservedly so, Waller got paid, so did Renfrow and now we are most likely going to have to find a way to pay Jacobs top money to keep him because Carr hasnt shown to be able to play well this year when forced to be a pass first offense. But yet in every game day thread we are whining about Patrick Graham and why he can’t get borderline NFL players like Amik Robertson and Abram to play well…

This is a good post and the logic is well founded.

I believe, though I could be wrong, that we do have flexibility next year with the cap hits on offense to add some important pieces to the defence. I don't think Carr needs elite players at every position to succeed. If we have Adams, some decent to above average protection and a decent to above average running game I think we'll be fine. It's about finding that sweet spot in the cap spend and managing our signings, something that will be tricky but that a good FO can do.

Carr has shown that he can get great production out of guys like Crabtree, Agholor and Renfrow, none of which are elite WRs so I think that gives me hope that we don't need a star-studded receiving core, to me Adams, Renfrow plus some value support pieces will be just fine if we can improve our Oline a bit with a draft pick and maybe a decent value FA. Waller and Jacobs are important decisions to make as we do need some new pieces on Dline and at DB on the defensive side. I think it's important to acknowledge that no team is 'complete' with no weaknesses as the salary cap is very prohibitive of that but if we can add one or two good draft picks and a few value FAs then I think we'll be fine moving forward as the cap goes up and Carrs cap hit will probably be moved about. Or we have the 'out' this year with Carr so that is another big decision to add to Waller and Jacobs. An awful lot of potentially moving pieces this offseason.

 

[big_palooka]

3 hours ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Great post. This is what i think most dont understand and its maddening when the defense is solely blamed for our failures over the years as a team. No Carr is not the biggest problem on this team but hes a good but limited QB who needs alot around him. And that creates a very difficult long term formula to come up with to support him and his limitations and also have a well rounded team. 

Look at how the team has continuously been structured throughout the years to support a good but non elite QB in Carr.

2017 we were 2nd in total spending on Offense, 2018 we were 2nd as well. 2019 we were 6th. 2020 we were 2nd. 

Now we gave Carr his money, DA is like the highest paid WR in the league and deservedly so, Waller got paid, so did Renfrow and now we are most likely going to have to find a way to pay Jacobs top money to keep him because Carr hasnt shown to be able to play well this year when forced to be a pass first offense. But yet in every game day thread we are whining about Patrick Graham and why he can’t get borderline NFL players like Amik Robertson and Abram to play well…

It's not difficult if you draft well. The problem with the defense can be directly linked to the failure to draft quality players on that side of the ball. 

[true2form]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

It's not difficult if you draft well. The problem with the defense can be directly linked to the failure to draft quality players on that side of the ball. 

This is where I struggle to agree with that argument as well.  We've thrown countless draft picks and free agent contracts at the defense and it has pretty much all failed.  That has nothing to do with Carr or the offense.  If we had good young defensive players we were not resigning because we couldn't afford them, that would be different.  Crosby got paid, cant think of anyone else deserving.

In our last 5 drafts we picked 16 guys for offense, 20 for defense, and a punter. 15 total of those picks are actually contributing to this years team in some way. 5 of those are from this years class.

 

[BackinBlack]

15 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

He is not a bad player and not our biggest problem.  You can even argue he is a net positive.  My problem with Carr is the cost the next couple years.  A QB making that much can not just be a decent to good player.  If you are going to financial restrict the team from bringing in better players you need your play on the field to elevate lesser players to justify your contract.  A $40 million a year QB should not need receivers that average $50 million and then add on a $10 a year RB if we resign Jacobs.  We would be spending close to 45% of our cap on those 5 players.  People can defend Carr if they chose but do not bash the defense if we go this route because we will not have enough money to bring in the needed players.  For anyone saying our defense sucks I wonder why we rank 25th-30th on defense while ranking 30th in spending on defense.  In 2023 and 2024 we are ranked 29th.

Honestly, yes at 40 mil, the QB 100% needs to step the F up. No doubt about that, but also, at 40 Mil . . .
You cannot afford to have 40 mil in dead cap space either haha. We have 46 mil dead space this season. 
That is so Fn much. Wayyyyyyy bigger issue that Carrs money this season. 

Next year its 23mil, and cap at 225m. Makes things a lot more manageable, essentially 200m to build a team vs 160m this year. 

[SilverNBlackFan]

Just like it didn't surprise me with Carr playing very well the last 3 weeks, his absolute stinker of a performance tonight didn't surprise me. First game in a while that Jacobs wasn't able to run absolutely wild, and Carr looks like crap. Why cant he make plays in the redzone? 

 But hey at least he put up some stats and we swept the Broncos. 

 

[bucksavage1]

11 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Just like it didn't surprise me with Carr playing very well the last 3 weeks, his absolute stinker of a performance tonight didn't surprise me. First game in a while that Jacobs wasn't able to run absolutely wild, and Carr looks like crap. Why cant he make plays in the redzone? 

 But hey at least he put up some stats and we swept the Broncos. 

 

+Add in DA was shadowed by Ramsey. It was time for Carr to step up instead…

 

 

 

 

[RaiderX]

Carr threw the same number of picks as days Baker was on the friggin team. Unspeakably embarrassing to watch.

[NickButera]

I'm ready to move on from Carr. The problem is, at this point if we get rid of him, we will be unquestionably worse of a team. Right now his potential is the Stafford surrounded by a great team. But nothing about McDaniels says he can coach up a team to play well. We need to get lucky and have a great QB prospect drop into our laps in the draft because we're probably not drafting in the top 5. Or we need to get lucky with a trade/free agent.   If none of those situations present themselves then we're left to rely on Josh McD fixing this team's mistake prone nature next year. And so far that's a recipe for disaster

 

At this point I'm starting to see McDaniels in the same light as Carr. He's going to have some bright spots but he's mediocre at best and needs elite players to lift him up, and he's going to fart the bed sometimes. Carr needs an elite team/coach. But our coach needs an elite QB. Puke.