The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[ronjon1990]

12 minutes ago, jpaulthe1st said:

So you’d keep Carr over Herbert, Burrow, Lamar, Watson, and Trevor Lawrence? 
 

I think you’ve finally replaced Frankie as Carr’s #1 fan. Remind me to never respond to any of your takes ever again. 

 

 

Weird, I never asked for your opinion to begin with, and certainly had not intention to given how utterly worthless it has proven to be. 

And yet your self-importance just couldn't help but make it out as though it was some great loss. Go figure. 

Hallelujah. Christmas came early for me. 

[jpaulthe1st]

Just now, ronjon1990 said:

Weird, I never asked for your opinion to begin with, and certainly had not intention to given how utterly worthless it has proven to be. 

And yet your self-importance just couldn't help but make it out as though it was some great loss. Go figure. 

Hallelujah. Christmas came early for me. 

How could I not get that impression given that you follow me around from thread to thread begging for my attention with long diatribes and lame potshots. 
 

 

[NickButera]

12 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

@jpaulthe1st Give me your list of QB's who are without question an upgrade over Carr. 

To be fair, he already made his opinion pretty clear. He would get rid of Carr for the purpose of tanking the next 2 years, for the purpose of building a better foundation. I disagree with that route, but it is a logical route if it works out. 

 

[NickButera]

16 hours ago, big_palooka said:

What type team do you need to assemble to actually knock KC off in the division? Can you build that with Carr? That is really my questions. 

There are 7 players eating 58% of the cap. Save Crosby and Adams who've earned it, these contracts that stick at out as problematic next year:

Carr - 35 mil

Jones - 19,400

Miller - 17,600

Refrow - 13,800

Waller - $12,600

 The FO is going to need to get creative financially and hit on some picks to balance things out. The secondary, iDline, LBs and Oline all need an overhaul of talent. Lot of work to do and will be interesting to see how they navigate it

 

 

Thinking about this again, if we had a competent GM/HC combo and had drafted well, we would probably have that team by now without even thinking about the cap because we'd have so many guys on rookie contracts that are performing. Right now we have, 1 of those guy? Hobbs?

[Frankie2Gunz]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

 

Still waiting @Frankie2Gunz

And I'll add this stat for you:

This season, Carr has a 39.6% completion rating in red zone and a 71.5% rating. 2nd lowest to Wilson. He also has Devante Adams at WR. 

And to illustrate it's a career long issues for him..... Carr is tied for the most red zone INTs (14) since entering the league in 2014.

I'll wait......

 

I'll answer your question but have stated the RZ woes of this team over the last decade have to do with many factors, not just one like you try to pump on here.  

Some of the main issues with our RZ woes....  Having limited weapons thus becoming one dimensional.  Before this season having zero run game in the RZ and either zero or one legit RZ threat in the passing game that the D can focus on shutting down which forces a QB to throw to less than ideal targets in less that ideal situations. 

Terrible and conservative play calling.  Bad Oline play and also the play of Carr.  Carr has to shoulder some of the blame, what percentage is pure speculation and utter nonsense.  Our RZ woes is not a zero sum game as you try to make it appear to be.  There are many obvious factors that contribute to our issues there and not just one like you try to pump on here to fit your narrative.  I am not surprised you cherry pick one area to focus on with your obviously limited football knowledge or that your stance is that our RZ woes is 100 percent Carr's fault.  

Now it's time for your list of QB who are without question better than Carr.  You'll never answer the question because everyone on here knows you're a total fraud that spews nonsense with zero substance to it.  

[Frankie2Gunz]

36 minutes ago, NickButera said:

To be fair, he already made his opinion pretty clear. He would get rid of Carr for the purpose of tanking the next 2 years, for the purpose of building a better foundation. I disagree with that route, but it is a logical route if it works out. 

 

So what?  He can'T post a list showing how many QB's he thinks are without question better than Carr?  He wont because he know's the list is much shorter than the narrative he is trying to pump on here.  He posts nonsense all day and can't back it up when the simplest of questions is posed to him. 

[big_palooka]

52 minutes ago, NickButera said:

Thinking about this again, if we had a competent GM/HC combo and had drafted well, we would probably have that team by now without even thinking about the cap because we'd have so many guys on rookie contracts that are performing. Right now we have, 1 of those guy? Hobbs?

Agreed. The amount high draft picks wasted in the Gruden 2.0 era really is astounding. They had all the resources to build something special around a decent QB and missed terribly. 

[big_palooka]

26 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I'll answer your question but have stated the RZ woes of this team over the last decade have to do with many factors, not just one like you try to pump on here.  

Some of the main issues with our RZ woes....  Having limited weapons thus becoming one dimensional.  Before this season having zero run game in the RZ and either zero or one legit RZ threat in the passing game that the D can focus on shutting down which forces a QB to throw to less than ideal targets in less that ideal situations. 

Terrible and conservative play calling.  Bad Oline play and also the play of Carr.  Carr has to shoulder some of the blame, what percentage is pure speculation and utter nonsense.  Our RZ woes is not a zero sum game as you try to make it appear to be.  There are many obvious factors that contribute to our issues there and not just one like you try to pump on here to fit your narrative.  I am not surprised you cherry pick one area to focus on with your obviously limited football knowledge or that your stance is that our RZ woes is 100 percent Carr's fault.  

Now it's time for your list of QB who are without question better than Carr.  You'll never answer the question because everyone on here knows you're a total fraud that spews nonsense with zero substance to it.  

You are talking in circles here.

In Carr's career, he had a top 5 Oline for a stretch. He's had a top end TE. He's currently has a top 3 WR. Yet, despite all the coaching changes, play callers, etc. he's statistically among the worst red zone QBs since 2014. Again, tied for the lead with 14 INTs in the red zone.  

Currently a 39.6% completion rate in the red zone! With Devante Adams as your #1 target. There is zero excuse to be that poor.

 

[big_palooka]

31 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Now it's time for your list of QB who are without question better than Carr.  You'll never answer the question because everyone on here knows you're a total fraud that spews nonsense with zero substance to it.  

That's not the argument I'm making. I'm talking about play in the Red Zone where Carr has struggled his entire career.

You want a list of every QB who is an upgrade over Carr in the Red Zone this season? It's already out there.... everyone except Russell Wilson. Take your pick.

I've never argued Carr is not a good QB and has moments where he is great. Problem has been and always will be consistency. It's always 2 steps forward, 1 back with him. And red zone woes.

He's being paid next season top 8 next season. Do you believe he's a top 8 QB in the game?

[big_palooka]

9 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

The list of QBs the Carr haters would give him up for but don't have the balls to be challenged on it because the arguments for doing so would be extremely weak and rely almost entirely on the unquantifiable notion of "potential" yet to be proven:

1. Lamar

2. Herbert

3. Burrow

4. Lawrence

I don't think there is much of an argument that the Raiders record is better today with any of these 4. Save maybe Lawrence who is starting to turn the corner.

Feel free to challenge me on this in comparison to Carr:

Lamar - Leadership in spades. Rare speed and creativity for the position. Downgrade in accuracy, pure passing. Upgrade in off script big play potential. 

Herbert - Plus ARM strength, ability to throw to any spot. Can play off schedule  and have to respect him as a runner.

Burrow - Moxie. Poise. Comparable accuracy. Better deep passer. Doesn't flinch in the pocket. Gamer who will put team on his shoulders.

Lawrence - + Arm talent. +Athleticism. Accurate pass, poise and only 23 years old. 

All 4 are young and at this stage age is a factor with Carr. 

 

[bucksavage1]

10 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Clear upgrades over Carr:

1. A short list of guys who will not be available for any reason whatsoever so they're barely worth mentioning (Mahomes, Allen, Hurts)

2. Rodgers for a year tops.

3. Brady for about 3 weeks

 tops. 

4. Goff. I'd trade Carr for Goff due to Goff having a few more years left, and I really like Goff. 

 

The list of QBs the Carr haters would give him up for:

.......

 

The list of QBs the Carr haters would give him up for but don't have the balls to be challenged on it because the arguments for doing so would be extremely weak and rely almost entirely on the unquantifiable notion of "potential" yet to be proven:

1. Lamar

2. Herbert

3. Burrow

4. Lawrence

5. Watson 

6. Some rookie that has never actually proven a single thing on an NFL field, would be a massive investment for the sake of appeasing the Carr haters, and would be more likely to set the team 3-5 years back.

 

The list of QBs I've seen people who just want to be rid of Carr pound the table for, but can no longer be found pounding that table as if it never happened:

1. Spencer Rattler at number 1 overall in 2022. 

2. Tua

3. Mayfield

4. Russ

5. Z Wilson

6 Sam Darnold

7. Fields

8 Murray

Bro even David Carr would take Burrow over Derek Carr.

You have to be trolling

Edited December 13, 2022 by bucksavage1

[raidr4life]

8 hours ago, big_palooka said:

I don't think there is much of an argument that the Raiders record is better today with any of these 4. Save maybe Lawrence who is starting to turn the corner.

Feel free to challenge me on this in comparison to Carr:

Lamar - Leadership in spades. Rare speed and creativity for the position. Downgrade in accuracy, pure passing. Upgrade in off script big play potential. 

Herbert - Plus ARM strength, ability to throw to any spot. Can play off schedule  and have to respect him as a runner.

Burrow - Moxie. Poise. Comparable accuracy. Better deep passer. Doesn't flinch in the pocket. Gamer who will put team on his shoulders.

Lawrence - + Arm talent. +Athleticism. Accurate pass, poise and only 23 years old. 

All 4 are young and at this stage age is a factor with Carr. 

 

In all honesty with what we have on offense i would take any of these QB's over Carr rightnow.

Goff

Lamar

Allen

Prescott

Rodgers

Herbert

Cousins

Hurst

G. Smith

Burrow

Lawrence

i'd even consider 

Daniel Jones and Tua at this point.

Carr's redzone flaws and lack of scrambling ability directly correlate with why we kick so many fieldgoals. When I started to sour on Carr 2-3 years ago I said he leaves too many points on the field.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by raidr4life

[Steins Gate]

9 hours ago, Nightmare said:

Out of interest, why would you not take Lawrence over Carr going forward?

I can see the arguments against Lamar (playing style =/= durability) and Watson (primarily non-football reasons), but give me Lawrence over Carr as a QB for the future all day long.

Lawrence has shown improvement this year. But I still think he is slightly overrated. Maybe next year he does enough to win me over.

[G]

7 hours ago, NickButera said:

To be fair, he already made his opinion pretty clear. He would get rid of Carr for the purpose of tanking the next 2 years, for the purpose of building a better foundation. I disagree with that route, but it is a logical route if it works out. 

 

Yeah I wouldn't have a problem tanking a lost season but to intentionally tank multiple seasons really rubs me wrong. 

In other news...Maroita quitting on his team also bugs me. Carr has his flaws but the guy loves the Raiders and so he has my support. Best 20 to 20 hash player there is...Red zone mehhhh not so much. I'm keeping him another season as his contract/pay next season is still bearable even with his flaws. Which also means our 3 year window is now next year or FIRE SALE!!! Which means even our only pass rusher Mad Maxx. So how about we win and keep it rolling for another two seasons after this one. Then PURGE!!! Like a drunken gambler stumbling down the strip with a drink in their hand using the fountians at Ceasers to wash away the filth. 

PS I've seen that a few times in 2022. NASTY!!!

[Darbsk]

On 12/12/2022 at 5:18 PM, jpaulthe1st said:

So if we fail at upgrading the roster (which has been the case for 20ish years) because we continue to perform at a mediocre level and pick mid 1st round do we just continue to roll with Carr?
Why not allow the team to bottom out (a la NY Jets, Miami Dolphins, etc.) for 1-2 years and use the premium draft picks to acquire game changing playmakers? I’m totally willing to sacrifice 2 years in the name of upgrading our roster with premium draft talent in the top 5-6 picks of each round. Last time we did that we got a Top 3 defensive player (Mack) , a 9-year starting QB (Carr), and a #1 WR (Cooper). 

This is a non sequitur, we failed because we drafted poorly not because we didn’t ‘bottom out’ the evidence is abundant in the Me v Mayock and Bigboard threads. Also, didn’t we bottom out in 2013 and 2018? Gruden had 7 first round picks, 3 second round picks and 7 third round picks in 3 years and failed miserably. Inexcusable really.

If we’d had myself drafting we’d have TJ Watt, Andrew Billings, Aaron Donald, Montez Sweat, Jaelen Phillips, DK Metcalf, Ceedee Lamb, Orlando Brown, Derwin James, Hunter Renfrow and a few others I can’t recall, and many others were better than me here, @NCOUGHMAN absolutely nailed the 2020 draft class and a number of other posters would have awesome teams too. We were literally head and shoulders above the abominations that our draft classes turned out to be.

Also, the Browns, Jets, Dolphins, Jags, Panthers, Giants, Texans, Lions, Cardinals haven’t won anything after bottoming out, they’ve mostly had the odd season like we did in 2016 or 2021 where they surprised or just been average to still bad. Maybe there’s one, but I can’t really recall a team that bottomed out and won a Super Bowl or had a run of success a few years directly after?