Raider 2020 UDFA signings

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, NightTrainLane said:

Doesn't mean anything if he isnt playing like a stud. If he gets outplayed he is toast. period

And Heath and Joyner are the main back up Safteies imo but we'll see how things work out on the field. anyone ca rise or fall.

Meh. Muse was a liability in coverage at safety in the ACC which is why we drafted him as a LB and Javin White is also more of a LB than a safety. Heath is also purely a box player and somewhat of a liability in coverage. I agree that Joyner should be a safety but based on what the staff told Chris Harris Jr it seems like he's going to stay at NCB. Plus I have zero faith that they're going to move him to FS based on the fact that they started Curtis Riley at FS over Joyner last season. 

Harris isn't a great player but he's a good backup safety with some range who has made plays for us the last two seasons. He's also one of our better special teams players and knows Gunther's system which is important due to the lack of OTAs and offseason practices. He'll literally be the only safety on our roster that has actually played in the system plus he's cheap. 

[NYRaider]

7 hours ago, NightTrainLane said:

Erik Harris, Leavitt, Coney, WIlber and Eligwe are all on notice with Muse and this kid in camp.

I also don't think that Harris should be grouped in with these guys. Eligwe and Coney are both practice squad players that didn't even play last season. Leavitt and Wilbur are both strictly special teams guys and only played a combined 98 snaps on defense for us. Harris has played in all 32 games the last two seasons with 18 starts and played 45% of our defensive snaps in 2018 and 85% of our defensive snaps in 2019. 

[jimkelly02]

47 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I also don't think that Harris should be grouped in with these guys. Eligwe and Coney are both practice squad players that didn't even play last season. Leavitt and Wilbur are both strictly special teams guys and only played a combined 98 snaps on defense for us. Harris has played in all 32 games the last two seasons with 18 starts and played 45% of our defensive snaps in 2018 and 85% of our defensive snaps in 2019. 

I agree.  Tanner Muse, a huge reach, was prolly brought in to take Wilber’s job as 5/6th LB and ST ace.  I can’t see Muse and Leavitt+Wilbers making the team together.  Wilber really offers little at LB besides emergencies, Leavitt should never see a snap at S.  we couldn’t possibly take away depth from the LB core by only carrying 1 backup in Morrow.  Muse had zero future at S in the NFL.  

PS: we really should have just taken Malik Harrison who would have been in a strong competition with Lee for the SAM job.  I’m sorry but you don’t spend 3rd rounders on ST coverage guys, you players who can compete at their position on defense AND also project to be STs players.  Harrison or even Terrell Burgess (S) actually have real potential as a future starter on Defense AND are just as good of ST players.  This pick was crazy and I honestly don’t think Tanner Muse is substantially better at ST then any of the other options that were available.  
 

We still really need to bring in a Curtis Riley level Safety to compete in camp but not make the team unless someone gets injured.  We also really need a LB to compete with Lee at SAM.  Right. Me we only have Lee@SAM, Kwiatkowski@MIKE, and Littleton at WILL with only Morrow as a backup.  The rest of the guys are pure camp fodder.  I think we carry those 4 LBs plus Muse and Someone we’ve yet to bring in.   If we don’t we’ll be signing a guy like  Will Compton off the street again midseason to Start.  We can’t do that and be a playoff team.

The only value I see in Muse is he replaces both Wilbers and Leavitt from the 53/55 man roster.  Hopefully we can learn the LB position and bulk up this year.  By ‘21 I’d like to see him in specialized scheme packages.  I don’t see him as a SAM or a WILL in a base defense, although I’d def try to develop him into those roles.  I think he’ll eventually become a decent nickel LB.

He’s going to have to prove he can take on and shed blockers at the LoS, as he’s never had to do that as a S.  Fighting through traffic will need to be learned too.  I hope he turns into a nice LB in a few years but I question it.  He’s made plays in coverage at Clemson but he also showed his hips are stiff and he lacks laterally agility badly, maybe even for a nickel LB in the NFL. I’m going to remain positive for the long term growth of him but also realize he might just be a ST player his whole career.

Edited April 27, 2020 by jimkelly02

[MrOaktown_56]

10 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I agree.  Tanner Muse, a huge reach, was prolly brought in to take Wilber’s job as 5/6th LB and ST ace.  I can’t see Muse and Leavitt+Wilbers making the team together.  Wilber really offers little at LB besides emergencies, Leavitt should never see a snap at S.  we couldn’t possibly take away depth from the LB core by only carrying 1 backup in Morrow.  Muse had zero future at S in the NFL.  

PS: we really should have just taken Malik Harrison who would have been in a strong competition with Lee for the SAM job.  I’m sorry but you don’t spend 3rd rounders on ST coverage guys, you players who can compete at their position on defense AND also project to be STs players.  Harrison or even Terrell Burgess (S) actually have real potential as a future starter on Defense AND are just as good of ST players.  This pick was crazy and I honestly don’t think Tanner Muse is substantially better at ST then any of the other options that were available.  
 

We still really need to bring in a Curtis Riley level Safety to compete in camp but not make the team unless someone gets injured.  We also really need a LB to compete with Lee at SAM.  Right. Me we only have Lee@SAM, Kwiatkowski@MIKE, and Littleton at WILL with only Morrow as a backup.  The rest of the guys are pure camp fodder.  I think we carry those 4 LBs plus Muse and Someone we’ve yet to bring in.   If we don’t we’ll be signing a guy like  Will Compton off the street again midseason to Start.  We can’t do that and be a playoff team.

The only value I see in Muse is he replaces both Wilbers and Leavitt from the 53/55 man roster.  Hopefully we can learn the LB position and bulk up this year.  By ‘21 I’d like to see him in specialized scheme packages.  I don’t see him as a SAM or a WILL in a base defense, although I’d def try to develop him into those roles.  I think he’ll eventually become a decent nickel LB.

He’s going to have to prove he can take on and shed blockers at the LoS, as he’s never had to do that as a S.  Fighting through traffic will need to be learned too.  I hope he turns into a nice LB in a few years but I question it.  He’s made plays in coverage at Clemson but he also showed his hips are stiff and he lacks laterally agility badly, maybe even for a nickel LB in the NFL. I’m going to remain positive for the long term growth of him but also realize he might just be a ST player his whole career.

He moves pretty well for a LB considering he was playing safety. He did have some good coverage reps. I don't think he's super stiff, he just hesitates in coverage sometimes and gets frozen.

Harrison is a thumper, but will never really be able to cover so I understand why you avoid him. It's not like SAM is a super important position on a nickel heavy team anyways.

I liked Burgess a lot, but I think Randall is going to get a serious shot at the job and the possibility of an extension if he balls out. Same goes at DT, where Collins is going to get a true audition for the 3 tech spot long term. If not, S and DT rise dramatically as far as needs next year and as some have suggested, we can shed Jackson/Joyner/Williams potentially with substantial savings, as we already have their "replacements" in theory in Simpson/Robertson/Edwards. Not all 3 of them will be cut, but I think Joyner will be. I'm not expecting much from him after how abysmal he was last year.

[NYRaider]

24 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

He moves pretty well for a LB considering he was playing safety. He did have some good coverage reps. I don't think he's super stiff, he just hesitates in coverage sometimes and gets frozen.

Muse was excellent in coverage when he played in the box. But he's just pretty damn stiff in his movement. I wanted him but as a 5th round pick. I'll just consider Robertson our third 3rd rounder though and look at Muse as a late 4th to make myself feel better. Athletically his numbers are almost identical to Devin White's at the combine last year so that's a plus. 

[jimkelly02]

41 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

He moves pretty well for a LB considering he was playing safety. He did have some good coverage reps. I don't think he's super stiff, he just hesitates in coverage sometimes and gets frozen.

Harrison is a thumper, but will never really be able to cover so I understand why you avoid him. It's not like SAM is a super important position on a nickel heavy team anyways.

I liked Burgess a lot, but I think Randall is going to get a serious shot at the job and the possibility of an extension if he balls out. Same goes at DT, where Collins is going to get a true audition for the 3 tech spot long term. If not, S and DT rise dramatically as far as needs next year and as some have suggested, we can shed Jackson/Joyner/Williams potentially with substantial savings, as we already have their "replacements" in theory in Simpson/Robertson/Edwards. Not all 3 of them will be cut, but I think Joyner will be. I'm not expecting much from him after how abysmal he was last year.

Unless Joyner plays near pro bowl level he’s gonna after this year.  Jackson will really need to play at a pro bowl level to stay around too.  I wouldn’t necessarily saw Simpson will be Jackson’s replacement (I’m not saying you said that he would, just a general comment im making).  Simpson played LG at Clemson but should be able to play RG too. He actually profiles as a typical RG.  He could Stay at LG and be Incognito’s replacement in either ‘21 of ‘22.  While we had some nice depth pieces im glad we got Simpson because Devey+Kush were never long term options or even starters.  We can develop Simpson into a starter in the next few years.

I think Randall is more of a stop gap than anything unless he really plays at a high level.  Collins though seems like a guy who  we’d resign before FA If we plays well enough to be long term starter.  I like the fact we didn’t over commit to either player and kept open the option to upgrade from them next year if we so choose.

We’ve both talked a good amount about Edwards.  As I’ve said before I like him but didn’t put him in the same category as Pittman and Mims.  I had him grouped in with Claypool and Shenault.  As we’ve spoke about before he was significantly held back by his offense and team.  I don’t think “RAW” is the correct term for him.  He’s actually rather skilled at getting off the line for instance.  Idk the word for it but he needs time to develop into a complete WR and run a NFL route tree.  It was outright wasteful how he was used at SC.  More than half his catches were screens.  He’s got top pick talent plus freak playmaking skills. I think he can be a high end starting xWR, but it’s going to take some time.  Short term the guy can get a decent amount of reps.  
 

Muse got “stuck” in coverage a good amount.  I think that’s from a combination of things including:  stiff hips and his feet aren’t fast enough for his eyes when he’s in the secondary.  I’d much rather have a nice run stuffing SAM who can blitz but only drop to a spot in zone (Harrison) than this absolute project of a LB (Muse).  I don’t see a new age hybrid player.  I see a guy who can’t be a NFL S and one that think will only be a situational LB.  if this was a 5th round pick I’d be praising it but 3rd round is ridiculous.  Imagine if weren’t able to land Simpson and Robertson.... we’d all be very upset at Mayock.

[jimkelly02]

47 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Athletically his numbers are almost identical to Devin White's at the combine last year so that's a plus. 

Muse should be a freak athlete like his numbers indicate.  Idk what is but he’s so “straightline” only.  I don’t see him moving laterally at a high level, and that’s really important for a LB.  

[oakdb36]

Harrison was picked 2 spots before. Maybe we would have picked him, we'll never know. Davion Taylor and Davis Gaither were available though.

[oakdb36]

9 hours ago, Mr Raider said:

Running back is really the only position I see on offense where making signing an undrafted guy a priority to have a crack at being the second or third RB. And mainly that's because that's one position with a higher success rate at finding that. Jacobs is going to be fed early and often. Keeping him fresh and healthy will be important, but I think we have a genuine star in Jacobs at tail back. The team obviously see something they love in Bowden. He's going to get opportunities. Richard is a really good 3rd back. And there's always a handful of older vets capable of coming in to give Jacobs a breather. 

They gave Stanback 100K guaranteed. That's what you'd give to a high priority UDFA. Tells me they think he has a shot.

[oakdb36]

Scouting report on Panasiuk.

Quote

PROS: NFL-ready size and technique for an interior defender. Powerful throughout, with a broad upper body and wide base to occupy two-gaps as a run defender. Excels to a near-elite level as a head-up run defender in one- or two-gap responsibilities: regularly wins control of opponent with initial strike, can leverage and re-leverage hands and hips to cross face while tracking ball carrier, through traffic, and has significant stopping power in the hole. Not overly explosive but can win against zone flow and reach blocks, and often disrupts as a pursuit player. Heady player who rarely is caught out of position on misdirection plays or against pullers.

CONS: Pass-rush simply doesn’t exist. Sits on blocks in pass protection and doesn’t make any effort to disengage to a half-man relationship or even compromise pocket depth with a bull-rush. Content to remain at pocket depth and read QB, hoping for cleanup opportunities or to stop scrambles in a spy-like role. Is not lacking in physical tools to generate pass rush, which makes lack of production therein a bit less concerning.

 

[NightTrainLane]

9 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Meh. Muse was a liability in coverage at safety in the ACC which is why we drafted him as a LB and Javin White is also more of a LB than a safety. Heath is also purely a box player and somewhat of a liability in coverage. I agree that Joyner should be a safety but based on what the staff told Chris Harris Jr it seems like he's going to stay at NCB. Plus I have zero faith that they're going to move him to FS based on the fact that they started Curtis Riley at FS over Joyner last season. 

Harris isn't a great player but he's a good backup safety with some range who has made plays for us the last two seasons. He's also one of our better special teams players and knows Gunther's system which is important due to the lack of OTAs and offseason practices. He'll literally be the only safety on our roster that has actually played in the system plus he's cheap. 

Meh. I disagree and we'll definitely see.

Edited April 27, 2020 by NightTrainLane

[NightTrainLane]

9 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I also don't think that Harris should be grouped in with these guys. Eligwe and Coney are both practice squad players that didn't even play last season. Leavitt and Wilbur are both strictly special teams guys and only played a combined 98 snaps on defense for us. Harris has played in all 32 games the last two seasons with 18 starts and played 45% of our defensive snaps in 2018 and 85% of our defensive snaps in 2019. 

Meh. I do. The only guys in the LB or Safety rooms that have roster positions saved are Abrams, Randall, Heath, Joyner, Littleton, Kwi and Morrow. Lee is a maybe. Everyone else is fight for a job and anyone can get surprised and supplanted expect probably Littleton and Abrams.

[Bitty 2.0]

18 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

 

And he's not as good. Why all the hate on a 3 year starter at Clemson who only gave up 3 TDs in 3 years?

 

 

[massraider]

Reading they signed Nick Bowers, TE Penn State.

https://www.blackshoediaries.com/2020/4/14/21220317/so-you-drafted-penn-state-nittany-lions-football-te-nick-bowers-nfl-draft-2020

Big, athletic, had injuries. Lucky if he makes the PS, but fits athletic profile of a two way TE.

[Humble_Beast]

I seen we signed that guard, he looks like a good convert from tackle. Man started a lot of games in college. That’s the thing about UDFA, it’s not just the 53, good teams have capable players on their practice squads. Injuries hit every team hard during the season.