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Recapping the first Las Vegas Raiders Draft


RaidersAreOne

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51 minutes ago, Rolni said:

True!

I would add that to me it is not about the PO. I mean we have to get there, but I also want to really see that they COACH. I want to see them overcoaching the opposition with this roster now. I want to hear them commentators and online professors to rave about their play desings and gameplan.

I agree we need to see outcoaching a good team, beating a clearly better team and being greater than the sum of our parts.

I dont think it's unreasonable to expect some tangible results and rewards however, Gruden took over a 6-10 team 1 year removed from being 12-4 and showing real promise and he's had 3 full drafts and 3 full FA periods plus 2 full seasons. He's had carte blanche to bring in his players, hire his coaches, do it his way. If we finish this season 7-9 we're basically no better off results wise than when we started.

Now, we can say well, have young players, potential, decent cap situation, high character and on and on but ultimately we have to see the progress in the win/loss column, everything else is kind of secondary.  

Edited by Darbsk
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13 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I trust Mayock after the first so far.  I like all of the players he has drafted in the first but I do not think he has received value yet.  Whether the player is a bust or has a Hall of Fame career he has over-drafted players in the 1st.  That is my only issue.  He could have had Ruggs at 14 and at minimum CeeDee or Juedy.  All 3 would be worth the 14th selection and upgraded our offense.  Arnette was one of my favorite prospects but he would have been a reach in the late 2nd.  He fit our scheme but chances are low that he is drafted in the first by another team.  I think all 5 players will have good careers with the team but we could have had better players or more draft picks.

I believe Ruggs would’ve been gone at 13, I also believe Arnette would’ve went in the 20s. Perceived value by fans and media is way different from actual value on draft day. Look at guys like Okwara, Jaylon Johnson, Denzel Mims, many had each of them going in the first round and no one would’ve batted an eye if they had gone in the first, because we follow mock drafts all offseason and believe what these talking heads say, those guys dropped wayyy down the board. But, I chose to believe in Mayock after last years draft and how far we’ve come since he’s gotten here, so even though a couple picks had me scratching my head, I’ll wait until I see it on the field until I thrash any selection. Guys we’re having full on meltdowns in here after claiming they trusted the staff. 

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Some really good posts in this thread!

I personally don’t really have that much of a problem with reaching for need, scheme or both and don’t get too worked up about perceived value - but only if there is a net positive result at the end of it. I won’t look back in a few years and give too much thought about what round someone was picked up in even, as long as they become a good player for us and ideally for a long period of time. 

However, the ‘reach’ or trend of the FO in reaching has to count for something, in that you should at least see a higher percentage of net hits vs misses. If those hits are not always out of the park, that’s okay, but you have to be able to see a tangible benefit from taking that specific player early over trading back and possibly risk missing out on said player but perhaps having to settle for someone graded similarly. 

Case in point - Arnette. I won’t be worried if he doesn’t become a pro bowler, have elite stats or even be the next best CB after Okudah or Henderson from this draft. If he becomes a competent starter opposite Mullen over the next few years, then I’m happy as bust rates are so astronomically high. (Just go to the general forum to see posters grades of the ‘17 draft as evidence!)

I will be disappointed if he performs below the standard of the rest of the second tier of CBs. If most of Fulton, Johnson, Diggs, Gladney etc. perform better than him, then taking him that high and not risking trading down would’ve unquestionably been a mistake.

This draft will be a real indicator as to whether this method of drafting and line of thinking will ultimately pay off as in Ruggs, Arnette, Bowden and Muse arguably the picking early for need/fit/scheme applies.

At the moment, if I had to guess, I would say it will pay off and I do have confidence in Mayock and am in favour of having and drafting for a specific reason ram identity. But then I am always optimistic this time of year and have been wrong more than I’ve been right!

 

Edited by reddevil
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10 hours ago, BayRaider said:

I’m still on the Mayock bandwaggon and like Arnette. I praise Mayock more than anyone, and I’ll never fault Mayock unless the draft picks don’t pan out. However, I think it is really fair to say that he’s coming no where close to maximizing his value. 

Mayock really needs to hope that Ferrell and Arnette pan out. Both were major reaches because they fit into Gunther's scheme when there were better prospects with more upside at the same position still on the board. 

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2 minutes ago, Jerry said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001112246/article/afc-west-draft-grades-broncos-load-up-for-lock-bolts-go-big

Cracks me up. All of a sudden Mayocks draft isnt so bad. They'll change their turn like last year. Suckers.

The jury is still out on last years draft class as well though. Ferrell didn't play well and Abram missed the whole season and projects as a box safety. Ruggs was also kind of a risky pick with Lamb/Jeudy still on the board. So there realistically are big question marks on 4/5 of the first round picks he has taken. 

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19 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

The jury is still out on last years draft class as well though. Ferrell didn't play well and Abram missed the whole season and projects as a box safety. Ruggs was also kind of a risky pick with Lamb/Jeudy still on the board. So there realistically are big question marks on 4/5 of the first round picks he has taken. 

Well IMO, Crosby, Mullen, Jacobs, Renfrow all look like home run hits in terms of production and the rounds they were drafted.  So I'd say it looks pretty successful so far.  Even Ferrell's 4 sacks seem promising, and Abram, If he can stop throwing his entire existence at WR's and TE's, he's going to be a good one too IMO.

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17 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

I'm not a huge fan of the pick but i really don't understand how we know that.

You can not know it for sure but with that reasoning why not trade up to to grab everyone of our targets.  If Arnette is drafted at 18 do we just trade out of the first because he was our only option?  Of course not.  I think the chances are small that he does not last until 30 and if he is gone I have contingency plans that still give me more value when combined with the extra picks.

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10 hours ago, Geezy said:

I believe Ruggs would’ve been gone at 13, I also believe Arnette would’ve went in the 20s. Perceived value by fans and media is way different from actual value on draft day. Look at guys like Okwara, Jaylon Johnson, Denzel Mims, many had each of them going in the first round and no one would’ve batted an eye if they had gone in the first, because we follow mock drafts all offseason and believe what these talking heads say, those guys dropped wayyy down the board. But, I chose to believe in Mayock after last years draft and how far we’ve come since he’s gotten here, so even though a couple picks had me scratching my head, I’ll wait until I see it on the field until I thrash any selection. Guys we’re having full on meltdowns in here after claiming they trusted the staff. 

Juedy or CeeDee + extra picks is worth more to me than Ruggs.  It was a very low risk trade down.  Same thing with Arnette trading down from 19 would have netted even more.  With the 2 trade downs we could have recouped the value of our lost 2nd plus a little more.  

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On 4/29/2020 at 2:59 AM, Darbsk said:

 

If they can't make chicken soup out of chicken then they should be on a hot seat. The coaches were hand picked and ultimately Gruden has to be accoubtable and deliver the goods. We should be expecting playoffs with the resources we've invested IMO.    

With the new playoff set up I 100% expect playoffs and a win if the talent is coached up as I think they will be. Rod is a top DL coach. We should get more sacks with this talent. Buck was a good coach but don't know if how much more he could elevate them. Offensive coaches have zero excuses and overall we need to play all 4 quarters and make adjustments. Two seasons of poor adjustments has been noticeable. That 'rust' should be knocked off by now. 

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11 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Juedy or CeeDee + extra picks is worth more to me than Ruggs.  It was a very low risk trade down.  Same thing with Arnette trading down from 19 would have netted even more.  With the 2 trade downs we could have recouped the value of our lost 2nd plus a little more.  

it wasn't low-risk if they valued Ruggs that much more than the others. To me, they wanted to add speed to open up the offense and Ruggs has that in spades. Also, the fact that Ruggs is known as a hard worker and is ultra-competitive fits exactly what Gruden and Mayock are looking for. If they were just looking to add one of the top WRs, then yes, trade back, grab an extra pick, but if you wanted Ruggs, you needed to get him at 12, because he was gone at 13, imo. As far as Arnette, Mayock said he felt he was in the 25-40 range. I feel like we valued Arnette significantly more than the rest of the CBs available. At that point, the risk was too high and I believe you go get your guy. Trust me, I love draft picks and would like to hoard as much capital as anyone, but at some point you have to go get your guys. Also, with our roster being a lot deeper than in seasons past, and especially with the restrictions the pandemic has caused, I think the focus was more on quality than quantity, especially in the later rounds. 

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2 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

https://www.raidersbeat.com/king-buccaneers-tried-to-trade-with-raiders-for-pick-12-mayock-wasnt-interested/

This may have been posted already, but sounds like the Bucs were trying super hard to get to 12 and MM wasn't having any of it. Thoughts are it was for Ruggs.

I think Tampa wanted to secure their OT, I think the concern for the Raiders was that SF would take him at 13. 

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