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RpMc

2020 Minnesota Vikings Draft Class

Who was your favorite draft pick from the weekend?  

69 members have voted

  1. 1. Favorite Draft Pick

    • Justin Jefferson WR/LSU
    • Jeff Gladney CB/TCU
    • Ezra Cleveland T/Boise State
    • Cameron Dantzler DB/Mississippi State
    • DJ Wonnum EDGE/South Carolina
    • James Lynch DT/Baylor
    • Troy Dye LB/Oregon
    • Harrison Hand CB/Temple
    • KJ Osborn WR/Miami
      0
    • Blake Brendel T/Oregon State
      0
    • Josh Metellus S/Michigan
      0
    • Kenny Willekes EDGE/Michigan State
    • Nate Stanley QB/Iowa
    • Brian Cole II S/Mississippi State
      0
    • Kyle Hinton G/Washburn
      0


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GM Rick Spielman had one of those drafts that looks almost too good on paper, with value meeting need up and down the draft board. With Everson Griffen a free agent, defensive end is one area the team is thin at for the first time in the Spielman era, so they should look to add a veteran or two after the draft.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001111697/article/2020-nfl-draft-one-thought-for-all-32-teams-looking-forward

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NFL Draft winners & losers 2020

Rounds 4-7

Winner: Vikings' defense  

Minnesota had a high-yield draft that featured 13 Day 3 picks. The Vikings added two solid defensive linemen in the fourth round: Baylor's James Lynch and South Carolina's D.J. Wonnum. They stayed on defense with Oregon linebacker Troy Dye and Temple corner Harrison Hand in the fifth round. Minnesota had one of the more well-rounded drafts this year, complete with Day 3 value. 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-draft-winners-losers-2020-cowboys-packers-eagles-broncos/cjcba43wxkmk1vl8hx49k1jwu

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8 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

GM Rick Spielman had one of those drafts that looks almost too good on paper, with value meeting need up and down the draft board. With Everson Griffen a free agent, defensive end is one area the team is thin at for the first time in the Spielman era, so they should look to add a veteran or two after the draft.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001111697/article/2020-nfl-draft-one-thought-for-all-32-teams-looking-forward

I do not believe there are many veteran DL around worth signing honestly that they can afford.  And with this DL I  would be fine with that, especially if James Lynch can fill in at DE at times which I think he can, and if Hercules takes the next step and can become a rotational player.

 

DE Danielle Hunter/ Kenny Willekes / Jalyn Holmes

DT Shamar Stephen/ James Lynch / Hercules Mata'afa

DT Michael Pierce / Jaleel Johnson

DE Ifeadi Odenigbo / D.J. Wonnum/ Anthony Zettel

 

You get production out of Wonnum, Lynch or Willekes the DL will be pretty solid.  I would be shocked if none of those three produce, all have a high motor and two are absolute demons as competitors.  

 

 

 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, VikeManDan said:

 

that's pretty much what i expected. reiff is still an average tackle and Cleveland ideally needs some time to shore up some of his technique and add some functional strength. those are the same things O'Neill needed time to develop and the Vikings planned on giving him that time until injury forced him into playing early in his rookie year. He rose to the challenge but still had some weak areas. it's not a given Cleveland would have the same success so early. 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I do not believe there are many veteran DL around worth signing honestly that they can afford.  And with this DL I  would be fine with that, especially if James Lynch can fill in at DE at times which I think he can, and if Hercules takes the next step and can become a rotational player.

 

DE Danielle Hunter/ Kenny Willekes / Jalyn Holmes

DT Shamar Stephen/ James Lynch / Hercules Mata'afa

DT Michael Pierce / Jaleel Johnson

DE Ifeadi Odenigbo / D.J. Wonnum/ Anthony Zettel

 

You get production out of Wonnum, Lynch or Willekes the DL will be pretty solid.  I would be shocked if none of those three produce, all have a high motor and two are absolute demons as competitors.  

 

 

 

 

 

Cut Stephen, save $5M, and keep Watts as the backup for Pierce. 
 

Watts/Stephen have a similar ability to be able to play/backup both interior spots. 

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39 minutes ago, RpMc said:

Cut Stephen, save $5M, and keep Watts as the backup for Pierce. 
 

Watts/Stephen have a similar ability to be able to play/backup both interior spots. 

Cut Stephen and use that money to re-sign Everson Griffen and we’re set. I have absolutely no idea why Stephen is still on the roster. He only had like 6 QB pressures last year. THE WHOLE YEAR! Why is he still on the roster? Let alone pencilled in as a starter... This is the only thing I don’t like about the Zimmer regime. He holds onto underachievers for too long. Did the same thing with Rhodes and Waynes last year. Rhodes was getting burned every game and yet he was still the number 1 CB when he had clearly lost a step or two. Stephen might be the weakest link on our defense and has no business being a starter. If Armon Watts is not the starting DT next to Pierce I’m gonna be pissed. 
 

Hunter/ Wonnum

Watts/ Lynch/ Mata’afa

Pierce/ Johnson/ Holmes

Odenigbo/ Griffen/ Willekes 

 

Now this D-Line would be super solid. 🙏

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6 hours ago, RpMc said:

4.117 - DJ Wonnum EDGE/South Carolina - #19 Edge Rusher
4.130 - James Lynch DT/Baylor - #3 5-Technique Defensive Lineman
4.132 - Troy Dye LB/Oregon - #10 Off-Ball Linebacker
5.169 - Harrison Hand CB/Temple - #20 Cornerback
5.176 - KJ Osborn WR/Miami
6.203 - Blake Brandel T/Oregon State
6.205 - Josh Metellus S/Michigan - #19 Safety
7.225 - Kenny Willekes EDGE/Michigan State - #15 Edge Rusher
7.244 - Nate Stanley QB/Iowa - #11 Quarterback
7.249 - Brian Cole II S/Mississippi State -  #21 Safety
7.253 - Kyle Hinton G/Washburn

So looking just at today's picks (wow there's a lot of them), the guys I feel the best about are the three defensive linemen. I think Lynch is going to make an impact as a rookie and Willekes might too.

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What a draft!  15 picks and 1st, 2nd, 2 3rds, 3 4ths,  2 5ths,  2 6ths, and 1 7th next year speilman always makes it fun.  I love fliping a 5th for a 4th next year as well as 6th for a 5th next year.  I remember GM Rick saying getting as many picks keeps your team young...Maybe next year trade up?  Lets all remember they are rookies so time will tell and certain guys will take time to adjust.   Just wow once again.  

WR Jefferson a great pick didn't think he would fall to us.  Gladney love the pick seems like a competitor.  Cleveland needs to get stronger but seems a good fit in ZBS and shouldn't be forced to start right away?  Dantzler ran slow at the combine but looks decent with a lot of swag.  Wonnum don't know too much about but could be Hunter(lite) from what I hear.  Lynch could be a steal 3 Tech or base D end, Big motor so no need to rush him either.  LB Dye could be a steal again with Wilson and Gedeaon as FA's next year he could develop into a 3 rd LB position.  CB Hand I don't know to much about but the old adage is you can never have to many CB's because when they drop they drop like flies.  WR/PR Osborn guy has Punt Return skills and might make the team because of it but also seems to have some developmental WR traits.  Brandel I think they might want to move to guard or maybe swing Tackel in the ZBS.  S Metellus seems like a physical S as well as Brian Cole ll maybe one sticks on in special teams or practice squad.  Willekes a dark horse guy who has been since walking on at Mich St.  If he doesn't make the 53 man roster someone will probably pick him up?   Stanley QB I can't remember the last time we drafted a QB so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.  G Hinton they were impressed enough to draft him so lets go.   Skol Vikes!!!

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2 hours ago, Purplepride323 said:

I have absolutely no idea why Stephen is still on the roster. He only had like 6 QB pressures last year. THE WHOLE YEAR! Why is he still on the roster? Let alone pencilled in as a starter.

Stephen’s job isn’t to rush the passer. They want the 3-tech to play like a 5-tech or nose on early downs: control the LOS, hold up double teams, keep the LBs clean.

 Zimmer likes to play with a light box. They play a lot of nickel. They don’t blitz much on early downs, and they mostly play zone (but unpredictably, so they’re using different zone patterns from a variety of formations).

Having a couple of big DTs who tie up the LOS means they can get away with 6 in the box instead of 7.

It’s not all up to the DTs: Zimmer also asks the DEs to play the run on the way to the QB. The overall approach on early downs is like an old fashioned 3-4 (but with 4 DL) — make the LOS a stalemate and let the LBs and safeties clean up.

The approach allows him to keep an extra guy in coverage, which makes the pass defense better, even aside from the quality of the coverage players themselves.

Even better, a lot of teams will check to a run against a light box (Rodgers does this religiously — always runs against light fronts, never against heavy, which is a major reason the Packers have a good run offense every year). If the Vikings DL is stout against the run, and Barr, Kendricks and Smith make plays, they can usually limit the damage enough to bring up a 3rd down.

And then on 3rd downs in passing situations, Zimmer completely changes his defense. Now he’s got all kinds of exotic fronts, stunts and blitzes, and he wants the DTs to be shooting through gaps as pass rushers. He often has completely different DTs for 3rd down than early downs, usually a DE moved inside plus a backup DT who’s primarily a pass rusher (like Tom Johnson was originally). The coverage stays complicated, lots of rotation from the safeties and guys dropping into short zones to take away quick throws, which gives the pass rush time to get home.

This explains a lot about how the Vikings have approached their DT personnel under Zimmer:

Their two biggest additions were run stopping NTs: Joseph and now Pierce, who’ve been some of the higher paid run stopper DTs in the league.

They haven’t put a priority on finding a star 3-tech DT, despite that being a premium position for most of the league. Remember, Sharrif Floyd was drafted the year before Zimmer took over.

Their biggest investment since Floyd’s injury was one year of Sheldon Richardson, who they took on a prove it cheaper deal, and then didn’t try to re-sign. Instead, they gave Stephen a cheap contract to replace him. Their only other investments in that position under Zimmer have been day 3 picks like Holmes, Jaleel Johnson and now Lynch. I’m sure Zimmer would be happy to have a Kinlaw-level talent at 3T if possible, but acquiring a player like that doesn’t seem to be a priority.

I think Lynch actually has a decent chance of playing as a more complete 3T — on early downs as well as 3rd down pass rushing — at least well enough that they can use him rotationally with Stephen and move on from Jaleel Johnson (who hasn’t been good). Lynch played all over the line for Baylor, including inside and head-up over tackles in a 3-4 front. His highlights show he’s not just a gap shooter but someone who can win a fight with his hands.  Hopefully that will translate to the NFL.

 

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Posted (edited)

Love your take on the Defense Krauser.  Pretty much every one in the league is looking for that elusive pass rushing 3Tech.  Problem is these guys just don't exist apart from the top ones.  Your take seems fitting with the bend but don't break 1-2 down on defense.  Then use exotic packages. Double A gap packages on 3rd down? / Big Nickle.  But it really comes down to match up's week to week?

Edited by Taylor0026
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7 hours ago, RpMc said:

Cut Stephen, save $5M, and keep Watts as the backup for Pierce. 
 

Watts/Stephen have a similar ability to be able to play/backup both interior spots. 

True I forgot about Watts, I agree and would be totally fine with cutting Stephen who was not even as productive as Johnson was last year.

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7 hours ago, RpMc said:

Cut Stephen, save $5M,

Cutting Shamar doesn’t save $5M. It would only save $1.25M

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33 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

True I forgot about Watts, I agree and would be totally fine with cutting Stephen who was not even as productive as Johnson was last year.

How do you measure a DL's effectiveness?  Apparently, Stephen is an aberation per the usual, simple 'flashy stats' of pressures and sacks.

How many downs does a typical DL play per year?  There are about 60 plays offensive from scrimmage each game for each team, and 16 games played would make 960 plays if each DL were in on every down.  Of course, there are injuries and plays where subs come in, so let's cut the 960 plays down to 700.... or less.  

A typical, top level DL will record about 10 sacks per season.  Using 700 downs played, or 44 plays per game, that translates to about 1 sack every 70 plays or 1.6 games.   Now, consider pressures and do the same math as above.   Those two exercises suggest tackles and TFL are also a vital consideration by pro coaches of the value of DL to a team.  Finally, consider Krausers' explanation of the scheme employed by Zimmer; i.e. some players are not going to record 'flashy stats' because they are playing a specific role that is important, but isn't reflected in simplistic measures of performance.

Better: use a teams' depth charts for OL and DL to see what their pro coaches perceive as a fair, but not perfect measure of the value each player contributes to their unit or offense/ defense.

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