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2021 NCAA/Draft Prospect Thread

Kiltman

By Kiltman
in Philadelphia Eagles

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Scalamania

Scalamania

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6 minutes ago, IrishHooligan00 said:

We can Agree to Disagree on the Corners. Neither are Elite IMO. I'd rather take Adebo in the 2nd

Surtain - 4 INT, 25 PD, in 3 Years (Not Elite)

Farley - 6 INT, 19 PD in 2 Years. (Needs to stay IMO)

End of 1st/2nd Round Options:

Wade - 6 INT, 18 PD in 3 Years. 

Adebo - 8 INT, 27 PD in Tech 2 Years 

Love the box score scouting. Surtain and Farley are both well above any other CB in this draft. 

The fact that you want to try to use Shaun Wade, who has been absolute garbage this year as a point to why we shouldn't take a CB tells me all I need to know. 

and yes, we can agree to disagree. 

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Kiltman

Kiltman

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50 minutes ago, Scalamania said:

A non-pass rushing linebacker is not worth a top 5 pick and the draft history over the past 10 years shows that. If we end up picking between 8-10 then Parsons is fine, if we end up in the top 5 then absolutely not. 

I agree, but Parsons doesn’t really fit that category with how good he is getting to and beyond the LOS. He gives you a pretty great ability to pass rush. With his long arms he does a good job targeting the ball too. Like if you let him spy these quick moving QBs he helps negate the effect they can have on games and really help how bad we can be at contain.  Like our DEs don’t contain (according to Chris Long they aren’t really supposed to?) and our LBs show constantly the lack of ability to fill a gap. Parsons come in and fixes that. He lets you stay nickel and dime more and not sacrifice a lot underneath.

58 minutes ago, Scalamania said:

I can't imagine how you (not specifically you) can watch our WRs play and think to yourself that taking a WR is a luxury pick. We don't have a single WR that can win a route, we don't have a single WR that can separate, we don't have a single WR that is a good route runner, we don't have a single WR that can consistently catch the ball and we don't have a single WR that can win at the point of the ball. 

Ha I know. It’s just like how many guys can we throw on the heap and expect it to be any different? How much of it is on the scheme and QB? Because Reagor could do it in college, these other young guys could do it in college. Fulgham could do it for a couple weeks then they forgot to do anything with him. Like they all can’t be this bad.

When I look at the 2021 ahead of us, I see Howie here and as well as Doug. Nothing has changed and we have Hurts and/or Wentz doing the same limited stuff back there. Chase not getting the separation he did in college and everyone clamoring to draft another one in 2022. I’d love to have the the top WRs in this draft, they immediately become #1 on this depth chart. But I can’t say I see it affecting us a ton as is. I know we don’t draft for one year, and whatever rookie QB we draft in 2022 will be glad to have them. That’s why I kinda bend the value between them and Parsons to be basically equal. Blanket statements, yeah don’t draft a LB there. But maybe draft the best prospect who will be an enormous upgrade and is one of the best of the class and try to get the offense sorted out fundamentally.

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ninjapirate

ninjapirate

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Just did a quick 5 round mock where I traded down.

 

21. Eric Stoke CB Georgia

37. Kyle Pitts, TE Florida ( i dont know why he fell but he did)

57. Jabril Cox Lb LSU

69. Quincy Roche DE Miami

73. Marvin Wilson DT FSU

107. Budda Bolden S Miami

132. Kenneth Gainwell RB Memphis

149. Kolby Harvell-Peel S OKSU

151. Jordan Smith DE UAB

162. Ihmir Smith Marsette WR Iowa]

 

As you can tell i really think our defense sucks.

 

 

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Scalamania

Scalamania

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1 minute ago, Kiltman said:

I agree, but Parsons doesn’t really fit that category with how good he is getting to and beyond the LOS. He gives you a pretty great ability to pass rush. With his long arms he does a good job targeting the ball too. Like if you let him spy these quick moving QBs he helps negate the effect they can have on games and really help how bad we can be at contain.  Like our DEs don’t contain (according to Chris Long they aren’t really supposed to?) and our LBs show constantly the lack of ability to fill a gap. Parsons come in and fixes that. He lets you stay nickel and dime more and not sacrifice a lot underneath.

Listen - I don't disagree that Parsons is talented. His best fit in the NFL is at MLB, right? You don't take a MLB in the top 5/6 range. You don't get the positional value that you spent in that pick back. The draft history over the last 10ish years proves that if you're not strictly a pass rushing linebacker, which Parsons is not, then you're not going to be drafted that high. Being able to stay in nickel and dime doesn't matter when you don't have anyone in the secondary who can't cover worth a lick. With the holes this team currently has (and maybe they're addressed through FA), you absolutely can not take a non pass rushing LB at a premium draft spot. 

If you're a team like the Dolphins, who have a high pick from a trade and you already have a pretty decent core of players, then you can take someone like Parsons. 

5 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

Ha I know. It’s just like how many guys can we throw on the heap and expect it to be any different?

To me, this is a no brainer. Chase is a can't miss guy, there's no guessing involved with him and the success that Jefferson is having only makes me think that Chase is that much better. 

5 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

How much of it is on the scheme and QB?

Scheme may very well be an issue, no argument from me there. However, as a WR in the NFL you have to be able to separate and/or run great routes, we don't have a single WR who can do that consistently. 

6 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

Because Reagor could do it in college, these other young guys could do it in college.

Disagree - Reagor wasn't very good in college either. At least not relative to his draft spot. 

8 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

When I look at the 2021 ahead of us, I see Howie here and as well as Doug. Nothing has changed and we have Hurts and/or Wentz doing the same limited stuff back there. Chase not getting the separation he did in college and everyone clamoring to draft another one in 2022. I’d love to have the the top WRs in this draft, they immediately become #1 on this depth chart. But I can’t say I see it affecting us a ton as is. I know we don’t draft for one year, and whatever rookie QB we draft in 2022 will be glad to have them. That’s why I kinda bend the value between them and Parsons to be basically equal. Blanket statements, yeah don’t draft a LB there. But maybe draft the best prospect who will be an enormous upgrade and is one of the best of the class and try to get the offense sorted out fundamentally.

Who's to say that taking someone like Chase doesn't turn our offense completely around? Getting a WR in here who can win the battles on the outside, can make the contested catch, can run the great routes is paramount, IMO. 

At the end of the day, the point still remains. You don't draft a linebacker that high, it just doesn't happen. 

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Kiltman

Kiltman

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6 minutes ago, Danger said:

If Sewell isn't there, I can definitely see us trading down a couple spots for a team that wants a QB.

Yeah if we are in that 3–5 spot and get offered a 2nd+ to move down towards 9 you have to at least think about it. Like if 3 QBs go top 5 along with Sewell... one of Chase, D.Smith, Parsons, Surtain, Farley will be there.

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Kiltman

Kiltman

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7 minutes ago, Scalamania said:

To me, this is a no brainer. Chase is a can't miss guy, there's no guessing involved with him and the success that Jefferson is having only makes me think that Chase is that much better. 

I sure hope so. I feel like people are gonna be down on him a bit. Especially with Smith’s year and him not being like an eye-popping physical/athletic prospect. Like he’s just damn good at playing WR and will probably get better, but always a recipe for people to undervalue him. 
 

11 minutes ago, Scalamania said:

Scheme may very well be an issue, no argument from me there. However, as a WR in the NFL you have to be able to separate and/or run great routes, we don't have a single WR who can do that consistently. 

I agree it doesn’t look like that we do, but then I do question what WR can show separation in this environment anyway? Like they happen on tape, but Carson wouldn’t throw it, or Doug called plays that are low percentage and leave them blanketed. Will a guy like Chase overcome that? It’s just a thought I have, I 100% don’t feel like we should avoid one....our WRs suck. 

 

16 minutes ago, Scalamania said:

Disagree - Reagor wasn't very good in college either. At least not relative to his draft spot. 

He showed it plenty though that it should’ve happen more this year, as well as him being able to get deep. He was a reach for a need though, a painful one at that.

18 minutes ago, Scalamania said:

Who's to say that taking someone like Chase doesn't turn our offense completely around? Getting a WR in here who can win the battles on the outside, can make the contested catch, can run the great routes is paramount, IMO. 

At the end of the day, the point still remains. You don't draft a linebacker that high, it just doesn't happen. 

It certainly could help, but with the current scheme it’s like what does that do? We get some more of those 7 yard low yac catches as completions? I’m just feeling extraordinarily pessimistic about this staff and QB room. It’s like everything they touch is overcome by the rot. Hard to imagine a world where that isn’t the case, let alone one WR ushering in that change. But I sure as hell am hopeful it can happen.

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Kiltman

Kiltman

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1 hour ago, ninjapirate said:

A.J. Terrell was one of the better rookie corners this year. He was embarrassed by Chase last year. I mean Chase might be a sure thing right?

Glad he’s doing well, only thing I’d heard of him this year was he got COVID kinda early, right. Liked him last draft.

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IrishHooligan00

IrishHooligan00

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22 hours ago, Scalamania said:

Love the box score scouting. Surtain and Farley are both well above any other CB in this draft. 

The fact that you want to try to use Shaun Wade, who has been absolute garbage this year as a point to why we shouldn't take a CB tells me all I need to know. 

and yes, we can agree to disagree. 

All I'm saying is how similar stat wise they all are against similar comp. None are ELITE and a gamechanger for there team. So I cannot personally justify a top pick for them.

 

Also Surtain I cant Justify in the top 10 Especially when Alabama constantly has top Corners but they never correlate well to the NFL. 

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Scalamania

Scalamania

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1 hour ago, IrishHooligan00 said:

Also Surtain I cant Justify in the top 10 Especially when Alabama constantly has top Corners but they never correlate well to the NFL. 

You're right - Mikah Fitzpatrick and Marlon Humphrey aren't two of the top defensive backs in the NFL. 

1 hour ago, IrishHooligan00 said:

All I'm saying is how similar stat wise they all are against similar comp. None are ELITE and a gamechanger for there team. So I cannot personally justify a top pick for them.

 

Also right - Shaun Wade (he sucks btw) going against all those big play B10 WRs and Adebo going against all those big play P12 WRs. 

If you're argument is going to be that the competition that Surtain is/has gone against is similar to Wade and Adebo that it seems like you're just throwing random stuff out to support your (wrong) argument. 

Quote

"Personnel-wise, for me, it starts with No. 2 [Surtain], probably as good a corner as I've seen in college football any year, to be honest with you," said offensive coordinator Tommy Rees.

Quote

"I think it starts with his feet; he has really good feet, able to mirror routes," Skowronek explained. "But when you combine that with his length and overall athleticism, that's going to make him a top cornerback prospect for the upcoming NFL draft. He has all the tangibles. I'm excited to go out there on Friday and compete against him."

Quote

Lane Kiffin didn’t need his inside knowledge of the cornerback. Ole Miss had a lot of success against the still-developing Alabama defense on Oct. 10, but had only one completion with Surtain in coverage — and it was on a low-risk play with the receiver breaking off his route.

Quote

Then No. 3-Georgia? The Bulldogs looked six times in his direction and only managed a paltry two completions for five total yards along with an interception by safety Daniel Wright.

Quote

But the game that may have best demonstrated what Surtain means to the 2020 Crimson Tide defense was Mississippi State. Even through Bulldogs head coach Mike Leach seemed to have no interest in trying to challenge the Alabama cornerback, his quarterbacks did twice. The first was batted down at the line of scrimmage, the other resulted in a touchdown going the other way.

Saying that Surtain is not elite is as stupid as those people that said Jefferson was only a slot receiver. 

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