roi34 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 11 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: Can't we also sign young defensive talent? at premium my point is RT way cheaper agree or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: The lack of sacks in 2016 had more to do with Carr than with the line. Carr got the ball out extremely quickly that year. The line was a much better run blocking line than pass blocking line. And I wrote then that the 2016 roster was not a sustainable winner because Penn was aging and the defensive playmaking was not something we could count on year-to-year. Plus, the Raiders got the long end of the stick more times that we could count on in close games. Instead of looking back at what was really an okay roster, I would rather emulate teams that consistently win year-to-year. Those teams have very good tackle play. When we paid Trent Brown 4 yr/$66M to play RT it was considered an overpay by almost everyone in the media. In 2016 when the Chiefs paid Mitchell Schwartz a 5 yr/$33M contract it was one of the biggest contracts in NFL history for a RT. Carr gets the ball out quick now as well and we've had success with older, cheaper guys playing RT. How well did giving Brown that massive contract to play RT work out for us? If you look at the 4 teams that made the AFC/NFC championship games last season. The Bills RT was Daryl Williams who had a $2.5M cap hit, the Chiefs RT was Mike Remmers who had a $1.8M cap hit, the Packers RT was Billy Turner who had a $7M cap hit, and the Buccaneers RT was Tristian Wirfs who had a $4.5M cap hit although he was a 1st round rookie. Hell if you look at the rest of the teams that even made the playoffs: Titans RT - Ty Sambrailo: $1.6M cap hit Ravens RT - DJ Fluker: $1.0M cap hit Steelers RT - Chukwuma Okorafor: $950k cap hit Browns RT - Jack Crocklin: $14M cap hit Saints RT - Ryan Ramczyk: $2.2M cap hit Bears RT - Bobby Massie: $10.9M cap hit Seahawks RT - Cedric Ogbuehi: $2.2M cap hit Rams RT - Rob Havenstein: $9.4M cap hit Edited March 11, 2021 by NYRaider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 (edited) No team that paid their RT more than $10M even won a playoff game last season. Edited March 11, 2021 by NYRaider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 6 minutes ago, NYRaider said: No team that paid their RT more than $10M even won a playoff game last season. Which is why drafting one in the first round makes so much sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 19 minutes ago, roi34 said: at premium my point is RT way cheaper agree or no? A good one is not way cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Rich7sena said: Which is why drafting one in the first round makes so much sense. I think it makes more sense to sign a veteran stop gap guy and bring in an OT in round 3/4 to develop behind him. We have so many holes on defense, taking a RT in the first round would be pretty bad value, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Rich7sena said: A good one is not way cheaper. We can probably sign a decent starting RT for $5-8M in free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-offseason-questions-value-is-the-issue-for-bills-at-right-tackle/article_88ad8eb4-779f-11eb-a2a3-6b6935158158.html This is what winning teams are saying about how to address their RT situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 I'd personally prefer to sign a guy like Daryl Williams at $8M APY or Beachum at $6M APY and then draft a developmental RT in round 3/4 then spend a 1st round pick on a RT. Adding another pass rusher in our front 7 at #17 would be a much better value than a RT, IMO. If we're going to try and sign pass rushers in free agency they're going to cost a lot more and almost every pass rusher on the market comes with major question marks and is a pretty big gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I think it makes more sense to sign a veteran stop gap guy and bring in an OT in round 3/4 to develop behind him. We have so many holes on defense, taking a RT in the first round would be pretty bad value, IMO. Most of the holes can and should be addressed in free agency. This is a great free agent class of edge rushers. Conversely, I do not view the edge class in the draft this year similarly. I think Paye might be the only player to give me pause over someone like Darrisaw or Cosmi at 17. 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: We can probably sign a decent starting RT for $5-8M in free agency. I would rather sign a premium safety (9-14 million), a semi-premium edge (10-13 million), a guard (4-6 million), a veteran receiver (5-8 million), and a veteran corner (5-10 million) all before a stop gap tackle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 13 minutes ago, NYRaider said: https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-offseason-questions-value-is-the-issue-for-bills-at-right-tackle/article_88ad8eb4-779f-11eb-a2a3-6b6935158158.html This is what winning teams are saying about how to address their RT situation. Cool, what did the Superbowl winning team do? And the issue isn't about spending, it's about performance. If I could get Daryl Williams-level performance for cheap, that would be great--but that's not the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: Cool, what did the Superbowl winning team do? And the issue isn't about spending, it's about performance. If I could get Daryl Williams-level performance for cheap, that would be great--but that's not the point. The Super Bowl winning team was also able to acquire the greatest quarterback and arguably the greatest TE in NFL history in free agency. As well as bring in Fournette and Antonio Brown on cheap deals because they were ring chasing. And had an elite defense and pass rush because they had drafted well and invested into their defense via free agency with guys like Barrett, Suh, JPP, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: I would rather sign a premium safety (9-14 million), a semi-premium edge (10-13 million), a guard (4-6 million), a veteran receiver (5-8 million), and a veteran corner (5-10 million) all before a stop gap tackle. Having a legit pass rusher on a rookie deal for the next 4-5 years is way more valuable than having a good RT on a rookie deal for the same time span. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 We had 21 sacks as a team last year and allowed 389 ypg and 30 ppg. Conversely we only allowed 26 sacks with a revolving door at multiple positions across the offensive line. When you look at the teams that have made the Super Bowl over the past few years what's one thing that they've all had in common? Stacked defensive lines that could consistently generate pressure with a 4 man rush. Bradley's system is almost entirely dependent on being able to create pressure without blitzing and we were one of the worst pass rushing teams in the league last season. In free agency you're going to have to overpay for a pass rusher and it will be a guy that has only had 1-2 years of production, is coming off of an injury, or has only ever had okay production. While you can find an average starting RT for pretty damn cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, NYRaider said: The Super Bowl winning team was also able to acquire the greatest quarterback and arguably the greatest TE in NFL history in free agency. As well as bring in Fournette and Antonio Brown on cheap deals because they were ring chasing. And had an elite defense and pass rush because they had drafted well and invested into their defense via free agency with guys like Barrett, Suh, JPP, etc. So you agree investing in pass rush via free agency is a good idea. 7 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Having a legit pass rusher on a rookie deal for the next 4-5 years is way more valuable than having a good RT on a rookie deal for the same time span. I am more confident that the team can draft a legit right tackle than a legit edge rusher at 17. I am fairly certain the team can sign a legit edge rusher in free agency. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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