2021 NFL Draft Thread

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Rich7sena said:

So you agree investing in pass rush via free agency is a good idea.

I am more confident that the team can draft a legit right tackle than a legit edge rusher at 17. I am fairly certain the team can sign a legit edge rusher in free agency.

I think that we need to address our pass rush in free agency and early in the draft. We ranked 29th in the league in sacks last year with only 21 and as I said before Bradley's system is dependent on being able to consistently generate pressure with a 4 man rush. The Chargers blitzed less than any team in the NFL last season with Bradley's as their defensive coordinator. 

A team like Tampa Bay could afford to invest an early pick into a RT because they had built a good defense through the draft. They had playmakers on all three levels and 8/11 starters on their defense last season were guys they acquired through the draft. The only 3 that weren't were JPP, Suh, and Barrett who they hit the jackpot on. As well as a ton of weapons on the roster that they acquired through the draft with guys like Evans, Miller, Howard, Jones, and Godwin. Plus the Brady effect allowed them to acquire other weapons like Antonio Brown and Leonard Fournette during the season because they were ring chasing. The only hole they really had was at RT and their other 4 starting OL were non first round picks and they drafted 3 of those guys. 

If you look at the guys who ranked in the top 20 in sacks last season only three of them were acquired by their current team via free agency, JPP, Leonard Floyd and Za'Darius Smith and they all went to teams that already had very good defenses. While we've seen guys like Trey Flowers, Preston Smith, Jadeveon Clowney, Dante Fowler, Shaq Lawson, Robert Quinn, and Star Lotuleiel sign deals worth 10M+ APY and fail to produce with their new teams. 

[NYRaider]

24 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

So you agree investing in pass rush via free agency is a good idea.

I am more confident that the team can draft a legit right tackle than a legit edge rusher at 17. I am fairly certain the team can sign a legit edge rusher in free agency.

For perspective TJ Watt (30th pick), Haason Reddick (12th pick), and Brian Burns (16th pick) all had 9+ sacks last season and were picked in the range we'll be picking this year at 17th. Having a pass rusher like that on a rookie deal for 5 years is way more valuable than having a good RT on a rookie deal for 5 years. There's a reason that top flight pass rushers almost never hit free agency, the team that drafted them either pays them or they trade them for a huge haul of picks. 

[NYRaider]

Even when you look at the guys who are considered the top RT's in the league in guys like Trent Brown, Orlando Brown, Taylor Moton, Mitchell Schwartz, Billy Turner, etc. None of those guys were 1st round picks. 

[NYRaider]

As @MrOaktown_56 said it's risky to trust a rookie OT as a starter in the AFC West. Kolton Miller has developed into a player for us but I think that people forget he had arguably the worst rookie season for an OT in NFL history. 

[MrOaktown_56]

5 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

As @MrOaktown_56 said it's risky to trust a rookie OT as a starter in the AFC West. Kolton Miller has developed into a player for us but I think that people forget he had arguably the worst rookie season for an OT in NFL history. 

Yep. 100%.

[roi34]

1 hour ago, Rich7sena said:

Most of the holes can and should be addressed in free agency. This is a great free agent class of edge rushers. Conversely, I do not view the edge class in the draft this year similarly. I think Paye might be the only player to give me pause over someone like Darrisaw or Cosmi at 17.

I would rather sign a premium safety (9-14 million), a semi-premium edge (10-13 million), a guard (4-6 million), a veteran receiver (5-8 million), and a veteran corner (5-10 million) all before a stop gap tackle.

I agree dline isn't stacked in this draft. but OT in free agency also has a lot of depth and quality for RT. 

 

so yeah.. haha. but I'm good either way asking as we fill holes with good players.

 

personally I'd feel better getting a sure fire pass rusher In FA

[NYRaider]

6 minutes ago, roi34 said:

personally I'd feel better getting a sure fire pass rusher In FA

With as bad as our pass rush is I think we need to bring in multiple guys via free agency and the draft. 

Lets say we sign someone like Beachum on like a 2 yr/$12M deal and bring back Good/Richie for a combined $10M. 

Miller - Incognito - Hudson - Good - Beachum 

That's a solid offensive line and would only have a cap hit of $31M for all 5 guys combined. 

[CaliforniaKid7]

8 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

With as bad as our pass rush is I think we need to bring in multiple guys via free agency and the draft. 

Lets say we sign someone like Beachum on like a 2 yr/$12M deal and bring back Good/Richie for a combined $10M. 

Miller - Incognito - Hudson - Good - Beachum 

That's a solid offensive line and would only have a cap hit of $31M for all 5 guys combined. 

I’ve got us signing Beachum in the mock off season I’m working on. It really like the 5 OL you posted above if we draft an RTotf in the 2/3rd to play behind Beachum. Gives us the rookie OT, Miller, and Simpson as young and promising OL pieces moving forward. 

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, CaliforniaKid7 said:

I’ve got us signing Beachum in the mock off season I’m working on. It really like the 5 OL you posted above if we draft an RTotf in the 2/3rd to play behind Beachum. Gives us the rookie OT, Miller, and Simpson as young and promising OL pieces moving forward. 

Spencer Brown at #80 would be an excellent developmental tackle that fits the mold of guys that Cable seems to like as a big, long, athletic guy. At the combine Kolton Miller was 6'8" 309 with 34.5" arms, an 82.5" wingspan, and 10.75" hands. At the Senior Bowl Brown came in at 6'8" 315 with 34" arms, an 82" wingspan,, and 10.5" hands. 

 

[Rich7sena]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

I think that we need to address our pass rush in free agency and early in the draft. We ranked 29th in the league in sacks last year with only 21 and as I said before Bradley's system is dependent on being able to consistently generate pressure with a 4 man rush. The Chargers blitzed less than any team in the NFL last season with Bradley's as their defensive coordinator. 

A team like Tampa Bay could afford to invest an early pick into a RT because they had built a good defense through the draft. They had playmakers on all three levels and 8/11 starters on their defense last season were guys they acquired through the draft. The only 3 that weren't were JPP, Suh, and Barrett who they hit the jackpot on. As well as a ton of weapons on the roster that they acquired through the draft with guys like Evans, Miller, Howard, Jones, and Godwin. Plus the Brady effect allowed them to acquire other weapons like Antonio Brown and Leonard Fournette during the season because they were ring chasing. The only hole they really had was at RT and their other 4 starting OL were non first round picks and they drafted 3 of those guys. 

If you look at the guys who ranked in the top 20 in sacks last season only three of them were acquired by their current team via free agency, JPP, Leonard Floyd and Za'Darius Smith and they all went to teams that already had very good defenses. While we've seen guys like Trey Flowers, Preston Smith, Jadeveon Clowney, Dante Fowler, Shaq Lawson, Robert Quinn, and Star Lotuleiel sign deals worth 10M+ APY and fail to produce with their new teams. 

There's a lot wrong with your argument here, but I won't distract you from my ultimate point: I anticipate the disparity between tackle at 17 and 48 to be more stark than the difference between edge rusher at 17 and 48. Further, I don't think the Raiders are likely to take a stand-up rusher at 17 because Gruden has recently stated that he wants "four bigs" up front. That means probably the only guys in the running at 17 are Rousseau and Paye (for the record, I do not think Ojulari or any other edge prospect are better players). As I've said before, Paye would give me pause versus Darrisaw or Cosmi, but I would probably take the tackles over him if edge is addressed in free agency. And, ultimately, it comes down to names. You're arguing at a 30,000 foot level. One of the reasons I like tackle so much at 17 is because I really like the tackles at 17. I also like the edge players at 48 more than the tackles at 48.

I would like to sign Romeo Okwara in free agency, draft Darrisaw or Cosmi at 17, and draft Jones II, Roche, Perkins, Tryon, Oweh, or Ossai at 48. All of them won't be there but two of them will. And I included stand-up rushers in the second round because I think a situational pass rusher is worth it in round 2.

54 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

For perspective TJ Watt (30th pick), Haason Reddick (12th pick), and Brian Burns (16th pick) all had 9+ sacks last season and were picked in the range we'll be picking this year at 17th. Having a pass rusher like that on a rookie deal for 5 years is way more valuable than having a good RT on a rookie deal for 5 years. There's a reason that top flight pass rushers almost never hit free agency, the team that drafted them either pays them or they trade them for a huge haul of picks. 

Again, see above. You're arguing the Raiders pick a certain position at 17 because of other players who ended up being good (notwithstanding Reddick was not productive until last year) in three different drafts. Not all draft classes are created equal. Ultimately, you have name some names.

50 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Even when you look at the guys who are considered the top RT's in the league in guys like Trent Brown, Orlando Brown, Taylor Moton, Mitchell Schwartz, Billy Turner, etc. None of those guys were 1st round picks. 

Any particular reason why you left out Tristan Wirfs, Ryan Ramczyk, Jack Conklin, or Lane Johnson?

33 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

As @MrOaktown_56 said it's risky to trust a rookie OT as a starter in the AFC West. Kolton Miller has developed into a player for us but I think that people forget he had arguably the worst rookie season for an OT in NFL history. 

I don't think it's risky with certain prospects. I think a veteran OT whose performance fluctuates heavily form year-to-year is riskier. Speaking of 2018, didn't the Raiders draft a developmental right tackle that year? How is that going? And Kolton Miller was a developmental OT prospect who actually played pretty well before he got hurt during his rookie year.

12 minutes ago, roi34 said:

I agree dline isn't stacked in this draft. but OT in free agency also has a lot of depth and quality for RT. 

 

so yeah.. haha. but I'm good either way asking as we fill holes with good players.

 

personally I'd feel better getting a sure fire pass rusher In FA

I disagree that OT is free agency has a lot of quality depth.

[NYRaider]

You're right we should draft RT in the first round. Defense isn't important as we've seen the first 3 years of the Gruden regime. Offense is all that matters. 

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

Speaking of 2018, didn't the Raiders draft a developmental right tackle that year? How is that going? And Kolton Miller was a developmental OT prospect who actually played pretty well before he got hurt during his rookie year.

Drafted a developmental LT who struggled as a rookie and got better. We played Good/Young at RT last year which was one of our best years in the last two decades and played Austin Howard at RT during our only winning season in recent memory. 

Jared Veldheer is one of the better offensive linemen we've drafted in the last decade. And Tom Cable was actually our head coach when we made the pick. We acquired him in the third round. I'd prefer a veteran like Daryl Williams or Kevin Beachum in free agency and to draft a guy like Spencer Brown at #80 who compares pretty closely to guys like Kolton Miller and Veldheer. 

[Rich7sena]

6 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

You're right we should draft RT in the first round. Defense isn't important as we've seen the first 3 years of the Gruden regime. Offense is all that matters. 

I won.

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Rich7sena said:

I won.

You did. For a team that's in win now mode with a ton of pressure to make the playoffs next season, it definitely makes sense to draft an OT early because of the recent success we've had drafting tackles early. I mean look at Kolton Miller we took him in the 1st round and he only gave up 17 sacks and had the worst run blocking grade in PFF history as a rookie. Or Brandon Parker who has never really showed anything through his first three seasons here. We also can't forget about Menelik Watson who we spent an early second round pick on, dude was a stud here. 

As Gruden and Mayock both feel the pressure to win and have a quarterback that needs great protection to thrive, the best thing we can do is draft a RT in the first round and slot him in as a starter. It has been a proven strategy for success here. 

[KlenlyKenny]

Right tackle is a tough position to fill, a lot of players coming out of college are LT or listed left tackle. The fumbles Carr had last year were ridiculous, I think they need a RT in the draft. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by KlenlyKenny