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Humble_Beast

2021 NFL Draft Thread

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1 hour ago, Humble_Beast said:

I’m working on a list. Give me a little bit 

No way... 😂 JK kinda. 👊🏼

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Jevon Holland and Shaun Wade would be two guys very high on my list at this time. DT's at this time are not that great. Need to see how they do as the college season goes on. 

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1 minute ago, agarcia34 said:

Jevon Holland and Shaun Wade would be two guys very high on my list at this time. DT's at this time are not that great. Need to see how they do as the college season goes on. 

Agreed about the 1st Round DTs. Even Marvin Wilson is super inconsistent. 

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2 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Agreed about the 1st Round DTs. Even Marvin Wilson is super inconsistent. 

Yeah but you're drafting guys based on what they can become not what they are right now. I'm interested to see how Christian Barmore performs this year. If he can be consistent and play like he did in a limited role last year I think he's DT1. Another DT I like later in the draft is Cory Durden. 

I like Wade but I want to see how he plays outside this season. He's an excellent slot corner though but is that really worth a 1st round pick after we've already invested a 1st/2nd into Arnette/Mullen and those two have played pretty well this year? Joyner is probably gone this year but we already have a potential SCB replacement in Robertson. 

I like Holland as well but I would be a little hesitant to pair him with Jonathan Abram. He's a good but not great athlete and I'm not convinced that he has the range to be a FS in the NFL. I think he'll be at his best playing closer to the line of scrimmage where he can cover TE's and play in the slot. Last season at Oregon he played 179 snaps in the box, 591 snaps in the slot, and only 24 snaps in deep coverage as a FS. 

We definitely need an upgrade at FS but ideally you'd find someone with great range who can play in a center fielder type role so Abram can play in the box more often than not. We've limited WR's so far this season and our young CB's have looked better each and every week. We really need to add players that can generate consistent pressure on our DL though, it's really what's holding back our defense. 

Edited by NYRaider
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1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

Yeah but you're drafting guys based on what they can become not what they are right now. I'm interested to see how Christian Barmore performs this year. If he can be consistent and play like he did in a limited role last year I think he's DT1. Another DT I like later in the draft is Cory Durden. 

I like Wade but I want to see how he plays outside this season. He's an excellent slot corner though but is that really worth a 1st round pick after we've already invested a 1st/2nd into Arnette/Mullen and those two have played pretty well this year? Joyner is probably gone this year but we already have a potential SCB replacement in Robertson. 

I like Holland as well but I would be a little hesitant to pair him with Jonathan Abram. He's a good but not great athlete and I'm not convinced that he has the range to be a FS in the NFL. I think he'll be at his best playing closer to the line of scrimmage where he can cover TE's and play in the slot. Last season at Oregon he played 179 snaps in the box, 591 snaps in the slot, and only 24 snaps in deep coverage as a FS. 

By inconsistent, I mean look at Wilsons motor. It’s very hot and cold. I liked him before I looked at about 8-9 games spanning a couple years. The last thing we need is yet another super athlete who is super hot and cold. I think there’s way better DT value in the 2nd. And better DT value in the Late 1st. Wilson in the 12-22 range is not a good value imo. 

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4 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

By inconsistent, I mean look at Wilsons motor. It’s very hot and cold. I liked him before I looked at about 8-9 games spanning a couple years. The last thing we need is yet another super athlete who is super hot and cold. I think there’s way better DT value in the 2nd. And better DT value in the Late 1st. Wilson in the 12-22 range is not a good value imo. 

Wilson has a ton of potential though and you can't teach his physical tools. We heard similar things when Chris Jones was coming out of college as well and the Chiefs got an absolute steal in the second round. We've tried to build a DT rotation with mid-round picks, cast-off veterans, and via free agency but it hasn't worked and we've lacked a good interior pass rush for like a decade now. As we've seen with a team like the 49ers, you can never have too much talent on your DL and Wilson's upside is extremely high. 

Barmore looks like he's going to be a beast and with a strong year would be good value in the 12-22 range. 

I think taking a chance on a DT in the first with Pro-Bowl potential is better value than taking another corner or another box safety considering we've spent 3 early picks on those positions the last two drafts. Hell, we haven't drafted a DT in the 1st round since 1997. 

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Understanding who will likely be available at DT and S after round one, say we are drafting between 11-15 and Marvin Wilson and Jevon Holland are both there:

Which do you take, why, and who is you're target later? 

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3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Understanding who will likely be available at DT and S after round one, say we are drafting between 11-15 and Marvin Wilson and Jevon Holland are both there:

Which do you take, why, and who is you're target later? 

I run to the podium to take Marvin Wilson and I don't think twice about it. We need to get better on the defensive line and be able to generate pressure with 4 players. And a top quality defensive lineman on a rookie deal is one of the most valuable pieces you can have. I like Holland but he played almost exclusively in the slot or in the box last year and I'd prefer to draft more of a true FS that an play center field and allow us to bring Abram into the box more. 

In the second round I'd target Ar'Darius Washington or Andre Cisco. 

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Posted (edited)
On 9/29/2020 at 2:10 PM, NYRaider said:

Wilson has a ton of potential though and you can't teach his physical tools. We heard similar things when Chris Jones was coming out of college as well and the Chiefs got an absolute steal in the second round. We've tried to build a DT rotation with mid-round picks, cast-off veterans, and via free agency but it hasn't worked and we've lacked a good interior pass rush for like a decade now. As we've seen with a team like the 49ers, you can never have too much talent on your DL and Wilson's upside is extremely high. 

Barmore looks like he's going to be a beast and with a strong year would be good value in the 12-22 range. 

I think taking a chance on a DT in the first with Pro-Bowl potential is better value than taking another corner or another box safety considering we've spent 3 early picks on those positions the last two drafts. Hell, we haven't drafted a DT in the 1st round since 1997. 

That’s funny because I was calling for Chris Jones like crazy at Pick 14 in the draft, loved him. Probably the biggest Jones advocate in this sub. He would always get pressures, just about every play. Always in the backfield. Watch all his tape. He was also leading in pressures across the board on PFF back when I use to follow them and before they went down the toilet, and was their 9th Ranked player in the entire draft. Just never got the sack. Wilson is completely different and doesn’t get that pressure all that often. He’s a complete and utter ghost on many plays. 
 

Edited by BayRaider

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On ‎9‎/‎27‎/‎2020 at 10:13 PM, NYRaider said:

I'd rank our biggest needs as: 

1. Interior DL 

2. Free safety

3. Edge rusher 

4. Linebacker 

So basically defense is the biggest need

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On ‎9‎/‎27‎/‎2020 at 11:52 PM, Humble_Beast said:

Who are your guys favorite Edge, DT, or FS prospects. Still wanted Grant Last year.. I would have got roasted because dude got hurt 

You get roasted anyway :D

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On 9/29/2020 at 4:57 PM, NYRaider said:

Yeah but you're drafting guys based on what they can become not what they are right now. I'm interested to see how Christian Barmore performs this year. If he can be consistent and play like he did in a limited role last year I think he's DT1. Another DT I like later in the draft is Cory Durden. 

I like Wade but I want to see how he plays outside this season. He's an excellent slot corner though but is that really worth a 1st round pick after we've already invested a 1st/2nd into Arnette/Mullen and those two have played pretty well this year? Joyner is probably gone this year but we already have a potential SCB replacement in Robertson. 

I like Holland as well but I would be a little hesitant to pair him with Jonathan Abram. He's a good but not great athlete and I'm not convinced that he has the range to be a FS in the NFL. I think he'll be at his best playing closer to the line of scrimmage where he can cover TE's and play in the slot. Last season at Oregon he played 179 snaps in the box, 591 snaps in the slot, and only 24 snaps in deep coverage as a FS. 

We definitely need an upgrade at FS but ideally you'd find someone with great range who can play in a center fielder type role so Abram can play in the box more often than not. We've limited WR's so far this season and our young CB's have looked better each and every week. We really need to add players that can generate consistent pressure on our DL though, it's really what's holding back our defense. 

I’m not saying I want Corey Durden, FSU, DT In round 2.... but I’m very intrigued by the idea.  He’s only 1 game into his 4th year Jr season and had a better R-Fresh year than R-Soph.... so they’re are questions he’s got to answer..... but if he does well this year he could be a nice 2nd round option. 
 

Btw just because Holland was used in the role he was used last year doesn’t mean he can’t play FS.... he might now have ideal world class deep range but it’s pretty solid.     Plus there’s a lot of value in Safeties that can cover in the slot and are so multi-dimensional in coverage.

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8 hours ago, BayRaider said:

That’s funny because I was calling for Chris Jones like crazy at Pick 14 in the draft, loved him. Probably the biggest Jones advocate in this sub. He would always get pressures, just about every play. Always in the backfield. Watch all his tape. He was also leading in pressures across the board on PFF back when I use to follow them and before they went down the toilet, and was their 9th Ranked player in the entire draft. Just never got the sack. Wilson is completely different and doesn’t get that pressure all that often. He’s a complete and utter ghost on many plays. 
 

Just thinking about this past draft.  Knowing what you know now would you have been willing to take Kinlaw over Ruggs.  Kinlaw was one of the players I was hoping could fall to 19 but I also know WR was a huge need.  Do you take Kinlaw and hope a WR falls to you.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Just thinking about this past draft.  Knowing what you know now would you have been willing to take Kinlaw over Ruggs.  Kinlaw was one of the players I was hoping could fall to 19 but I also know WR was a huge need.  Do you take Kinlaw and hope a WR falls to you.

I wouldn’t take Kinlaw at 12, 19 absolutely. I basically 65% wanted Jeudy and 35% wanted Ruggs III. Wanted nothing to do with Lamb. 
 

Hopefully Ruggs delivers. The nice thing about Ruggs is teams literally have to play their entire defense differently every play cause of Ruggs, because of his speed. 

Edited by BayRaider

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Just thinking about this past draft.  Knowing what you know now would you have been willing to take Kinlaw over Ruggs.  Kinlaw was one of the players I was hoping could fall to 19 but I also know WR was a huge need.  Do you take Kinlaw and hope a WR falls to you.

Tough question because you never know how the order shakes out. I'll swap Ruggs and Kinlaw and go based on who was available the next picks we made. SF also going WR with Aiyuk makes it a bit easier. 

Let's swap Kinlaw and Ruggs. I love Ruggs now and I like what we've seen, but for the heck of it, let's see:

Assuming the next picks went the same, I would have grabbed Aiyuk at 19. I would have thought about Justin Jefferson, but I know I would have gone with Aiyuk. 

It gets tricky after that though. We still needed a CB. In 3, I would've probably jumped on Julian Blackmon (S) at 80 and used 81 on a CB (probably Darnay Holmes). Problem there is that we don't take Edwards and he's probably gone by 100 so I'm likely taking Gabriel Davis or LB (Preferred Dye) there. 

Kinlaw, Aiyuk, Blackmon, Holmes, Davis

Or 

Ruggs, Arnette, Bowden, Edwards, Muse

I know the first option appeals to me more as far as hindsight, but with how things shook out, I don't see us winding up with Ruggs and Edwards without taking Ruggs at 12. You could argue that both were 1st round caliber WRs. It's always fun to re-draft, but I don't think I'd give up both Edwards and Ruggs for Kinlaw, even without the Bowden whiff and the Muse ?'s. Once you start fiddling with a pick, your whole draft order likely changes. 

Edited by ronjon1990

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