2021 NFL Draft Thread

[Frankie2Gunz]

4 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

There isn’t going to be a lockdown corner on the board at 17. I’m telling you right now. That term is thrown around too much.

There are guys in this draft who have that pedigree and potential.  Surtain and Horn have the physical skills to be a shutdown #1, who knows if they'll pan out but the skillset is there. 

If one of them is on the board at 17 they should be in consideration if our front office believes they can be a shutdown #1.  Certainly the drafting of Arnette last year should not detour them from going CB if they feel an elite player is there and that is my point.  It's apparent Arnette is not worthy of a top 20 selection let alone a 1st round selection and this team is missing a ture elite CB. 

[MrOaktown_56]

35 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

There are guys in this draft who have that pedigree and potential.  Surtain and Horn have the physical skills to be a shutdown #1, who knows if they'll pan out but the skillset is there. 

If one of them is on the board at 17 they should be in consideration if our front office believes they can be a shutdown #1.  Certainly the drafting of Arnette last year should not detour them from going CB if they feel an elite player is there and that is my point.  It's apparent Arnette is not worthy of a top 20 selection let alone a 1st round selection and this team is missing a ture elite CB. 

Agree with the logic that you pick player over position. Both of those guys are good but not perfect prospects. Arnette was a reach but you can also see the talent. Giving up on him too early would be a mistake. Which is why I think adding a vet is smart.

I won’t be mad with either guy, I just think the resources could go toward a position of bigger need with similarly good if not better players, like right tackle, safety, defensive line, etc.

Our biggest corner need is nickel back if Amik doesn’t pan out. That can easily be addressed on day 2.

[Rich7sena]

10 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Agree with the logic that you pick player over position. Both of those guys are good but not perfect prospects. Arnette was a reach but you can also see the talent. Giving up on him too early would be a mistake. Which is why I think adding a vet is smart.

I won’t be mad with either guy, I just think the resources could go toward a position of bigger need with similarly good if not better players, like right tackle, safety, defensive line, etc.

Our biggest corner need is nickel back if Amik doesn’t pan out. That can easily be addressed on day 2.

I would like to see Arnette bump inside in nickel. I think he's the best slot corner on the roster.

[BayRaider]

3 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

I would like to see Arnette bump inside in nickel. I think he's the best slot corner on the roster.

100%. Nickel Corner isn’t a need.... Outside Corner is. I’m willing to give Arnette another shot on the outside this year if we don’t draft an Outside Corner, but I’m not expecting him to succeed in that role. However, I would fully expect him to be one of the best Nickels in the game. Perfect size and technique to play that role. 

[Humble_Beast]

that be another wasted pick in Amik, who seemed like a solid nickel prospect. stupid to draft a strictly Nickel corner at 19. horrible pick

[101Raider]

Isn’t Bradley’s defense heavily screwed towards a cover 3?

wouldn’t that mean that having a true “shut  down” corner would be more of a luxury?  

I’d imagine having a FS capable of playing single high at an elite level (what I’d say is the equivalent of a “shut down” corner) would be more important no? 

Honestly asking...

Edited April 8, 2021 by 101Raider

[Frankie2Gunz]

30 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

100%. Nickel Corner isn’t a need.... Outside Corner is. I’m willing to give Arnette another shot on the outside this year if we don’t draft an Outside Corner, but I’m not expecting him to succeed in that role. However, I would fully expect him to be one of the best Nickels in the game. Perfect size and technique to play that role. 

I completely agree, we need an outside CB and not a NB.  It's a shame that we drafted Arnette at 19 overall, it's pathetic actually but I still believe he can bring solid value to this team as a NB.  He was absolutely terrible value at 19 but terrible value is what Grudock has been all about since they arrived.  I am sick and tried of our front office making mistakes then trying to force a round peg into a square hole.  

Horn and Surtain (most likely gone by 17) appear to be studs who should thrive on the outside and my point for months has been Arnette should not detour us from drafting one of them at 17 if they are BPA and still available.  Move Arnette into the Nickel and let's turn a weakness on this team into a strength and also provides us more depth at a critical position where we are devoid of proven talent.   

[Forge]

5 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

There isn’t going to be a lockdown corner on the board at 17. I’m telling you right now. That term is thrown around too much.

Farley could be. He wouldn't be lock down right away, but eventually maybe. 

But that injury history and outlook is legit scary

[Humble_Beast]

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

Farley could be. He wouldn't be lock down right away, but eventually maybe. 

But that injury history and outlook is legit scary

Farley or Parsons and I wouldn't think twice. I'll be pissed if we pass on them for a need. RT Jenkins who looked great in a conference notorious for not playing defense. 

[BayRaider]

12 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I completely agree, we need an outside CB and not a NB.  It's a shame that we drafted Arnette at 19 overall, it's pathetic actually but I still believe he can bring solid value to this team as a NB.  He was absolutely terrible value at 19 but terrible value is what Grudock has been all about since they arrived.  I am sick and tried of our front office making mistakes then trying to force a round peg into a square hole.  

Horn and Surtain (most likely gone by 17) appear to be studs who should thrive on the outside and my point for months has been Arnette should not detour us from drafting one of them at 17 if they are BPA and still available.  Move Arnette into the Nickel and let's turn a weakness on this team into a strength and also provides us more depth at a critical position where we are devoid of proven talent.   

Yes it’s not Arnette’s fault, and might as well use him, he can be a stud Nickel. Heck, Denver’s 3 Headed CB Monster in 2015 was a huge reason they won the SB. 
 

However, I’m not as high on Horn or Surtain as you are. I think the three projected first round corners have a ton of risk this year, way more than the usual first round corner class. The only one who I think can become a lockdown corner is Farley, but his injury history is definitely a big gamble. He’s my 9th player in the whole draft, but I’m not even sure I’d pick him at 17 with the injuries. 
 

10 minutes ago, Forge said:

Farley could be. He wouldn't be lock down right away, but eventually maybe. 

But that injury history and outlook is legit scary

Agree totally about Farley. He is super smooth and should be a great cover corner at the next level, but taking a gamble on the injuries. Someone might get a heck of a great deal on Farley if he falls to the Late Teens or 20’s and he overcomes the injury stuff. That’s a big scary if though. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by BayRaider

[Mr Raider]

I agree with BP on taking a tackle at 17 100%. It just doesn't seem extremely logical with the moves that have been made this off season, and I don't believe that's great value for the position. If I am taking a tackle in round 1, I am taking a guy I am marking it at LT. I'm not reaching for need so far to the point I am taking a guy to play that position, and if I am taking a guy worthy of a first round selection he should be talented and productive enough that he is seen as a pro bowl caliber LT. If I'm taking a guy that's slated to be a RT in the first it's likely because he has some serious flaws in his game that makes him seem like a RT prospect because guys getting drafted in the first round likely played LT in college for the most part, that isn't good enough value for me personally. Not to mention I truly don't believe it's as easy as some do to take a guy that has played LT his entire life and flip him over to RT and have it been a 100% sure fire transition.

Essentially you're doubling the projection from is this guy good enough to be a pro bowl caliber player (if you are taking anyone in the first this is what you should believe) overall, AND can I flip him from the spot he has played for years and make everything backwards and have him transition and still be that pro bowl caliber player. Even if you factor in the typical rookie lumps and say he'll be able to make the switch to RT you're adding another variable to whether that player pans out. Especially because while RT might be more important in todays NFL than it was in the past the reason for that is because in todays NFL we see better pass rushers regularly and you see multiple good ones on teams and even the elite guys don't play RDE exclusively.

The league is filled with a lot of talented RTs. Teams win consistently without an elite one that they required taking a guy in the first. And a lot of drafts are pretty deep at tackle, this one is, and if you wait until the second or third and take one you might be taking the 5th-10th best tackle in the draft, but if you're drafting him to play RT specifically you could still be easily getting your pick of the top RT prospect that has played and produced on that side because most of the top tackles drafted will be drafted to be a LT first. 

Until the defense is at least solid, I am not sure that we can justify putting our BESTA resources into a more luxury selection. There are multiple free agents we could sign to man the RT and play at a solid level, Good could even kick over there for the first 6-8 games if you want to take a second or third round prospect slow. I am much more confident in Gruden ability to engineer an offense that is top 12ish with what we have and a third round OT than I am Gruden putting together a defense currently capable of being top 16 if we don't use at least our most valuable draft pick on an impact defender (at literally any position). In this draft I am taking Parsons if he falls because I believe he is the top defensive prospect in the entire draft personally. I'll find a way to make him, Littelton and Kwit work, because those guys aren't good enough fkr me to skip a blue chipper and in theory could turn a weakness for as long as I can remember into a real strength. If Parsons isn't there, give me Ojulari, Paye, Oweh, or take Moehrig if you believe he is head and shoulders above the rest of the safeties in this class. Phillips I like as a prospect but I would be too scared of the medical stuff, but I still would prefer him to a RT in all honesty. 

Even with signing Yannick I would be doing everything in my power to turn the pass rush into our biggest strength on defense because it covers up a lot of flaws everywhere else. A deep rotation of guys that can get to the QB makes EVERYONE on defense look better. I mean how much improvement will we really see on this team even if we draft a RT in the first and he's solid to pretty good? We have questions at C and some at guard with Richie so if the interior takes a step back the RT alone will only do so much. If Richie stays healthy and James is what they think, a RT that is just serviceable will be more than good enough. We have seen the OL play at a decent level with a mixture of all sorts of guys inside and at RT. We have yet to see the defense even approach average. Fix that and even a little step back from the offense overall will translate to more wins. 

Every time I do a mock draft I try to force myself to take a tackle in the first and I don't end up loving how it comes out because thats just another resource I believe the defense needs most and because I find guys in the third round I feel like could be solid at RT for us even if not immediately but I don't find many edge rushers in that range I believe can be a confident starter level because pass rushers fly off the board and projected RTs (not OTs that are pegged as LTs) tend to slide a little bit. To me in this draft Parsons would be the perfect situation but isn't as likely so one of the edge guys or Moehrig make the most sense followed by DT if Nixon, Onwuzurike, or Barmore are there in the second. And then using the back to back thirds to take a RT and S like Cisco. And then after the draft sign a couple guys that can be a stop gap at safety and RT. I truly believe front seven in the first two rounds is where the best value and biggest impact on the team is in this draft. Even if they aren't our biggest needs they'll have the biggest impact long term and if they hit like I think would make it much easier to get by for a year without a highly invested in S or whatever. 

I salivate at the idea of Yannick, Ojulari/Paye, Ferrell, Crosby as our top 4 edge rushers and an inside mix of young high picks, decent depth, and high upside on some guys that were former high picks or pro bowl caliber players at DT with something like Onwuzurike/Nixon/Barmore, Jefferson, Hankins, Thomas, Irvin on the interior. That DL is deep, has some super high upside youth, some proven producers, and some high upside veterans that could find new life with a fresh start playing next to a bunch of versatile talented guys around them. Ojulari makes the most sense to me because I see him as a guy more than talented enough to play SLB in base and play with his hand in the dirt in pass rushing situarions. You can draft him and find a way to get a ton out of him while still letting Crosby, Yannick, and Ferrell get on the field and probably helps all of them play better. The other edges I would take simply because I believe they would have a bigger impact even in a rotation but Ojulari seems like a little bit of a smoother fit. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Mr Raider

[MrOaktown_56]

47 minutes ago, Forge said:

Farley could be. He wouldn't be lock down right away, but eventually maybe. 

But that injury history and outlook is legit scary

That's what I'm saying. If you make it to 17, hard to imagine that you're a clean prospect. And we need a clean prospect who can come in and make an impact right away.

[MrOaktown_56]

For the record, if we take a 1st round edge (I don't think we will), I won't be against it if it's Paye/Ojulari/Phillips. Stacking the DL is never bad. I do like a lot of the devy day 2 edge guys. DT is another position where I'm not opposed to a surprise pick because I do like Barmore/Onwuzurike, but more late 1st/early 2nd than at 17. 

JOK if he's being used as the big nickel I'm also fine with because aside from Morrow maybe, I don't think anyone on the roster can play that position.

[BayRaider]

After watching Thorn’s breakdowns, and more tape of Darrisaw and Jenkins, I still prefer Darrisaw. But I certainly see the argument for Jenkins and wouldn’t be mad at the pick 

[Humble_Beast]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

For the record, if we take a 1st round edge (I don't think we will), I won't be against it if it's Paye/Ojulari/Phillips. Stacking the DL is never bad. I do like a lot of the devy day 2 edge guys. DT is another position where I'm not opposed to a surprise pick because I do like Barmore/Onwuzurike, but more late 1st/early 2nd than at 17. 

JOK if he's being used as the big nickel I'm also fine with because aside from Morrow maybe, I don't think anyone on the roster can play that position.

Pare, Phillips, Ojulari, Horn, Farley, Parsons, Collins -  so many studs that can be there