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2021 NFL Draft Thread


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3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

What players do we have on the roster that have the bend/speed to consistently beat OT's to the outside? Also I think AO is a plug and play guy just like Brian Burns was for the Panthers, he's not completely useless or to weak/small to hold up in run support. Khalil Mack came into the league at 6'3" 251 and was one of the most dominant run defenders in the NFL as a rookie playing strictly as a 4-3 edge. 

I made a typo and corrected it immediately after.  I often submit the post then Proof read it because I’ve typed countless long posts And hit submit And lost them.  So I type fast, submit, and then go back and edit.

Auto Correct took away the “no”.... but if your reading the message it’s obvious what was meant, not to Mention I’ve said like 1000x.

 

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2 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

You made my point here for me.  You take an elitely talented prospect with ability to play multiple positions and toss him in at a position AND Scheme/Role he isn’t suited for and not have success.  But then that player can become successful immediately if used in a favorable scenario.

Was Simmons as a rookie with no OTA, no preseason, and no training camp supposed to beat out Chandler Jones (All-Pro) or Hasson Reddick (Former top 15 pick that was starting to figure it out) to start at OLB? Or was he supposed to beat out Budda Baker (All-Pro, highest paid SS in the NFL) to be their SS? The pick was weird because they already had good players in positions that he would thrive in. 

AO is a pass rushing edge and would be coming to the worst pass rushing team in the league, lol. 

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9 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I made a typo and corrected it immediately after.  I often submit the post then Proof read it because I’ve typed countless long posts And hit submit And lost them.  So I type fast, submit, and then go back and edit.

Auto Correct took away the “no”.... but if your reading the message it’s obvious what was meant, not to Mention I’ve said like 1000x.

I personally think AO has the ability to be a plug and play 4-3 edge. He needs to get bigger/stronger but he'll likely be 6'3' 245-250 when his rookie season starts which is the exact same size as Khalil Mack was as a rookie and he was a dominant edge defender. I love AO because I think he has the burst/bend to develop into a premier pass rusher and that's why I'd want him at #17. 

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13 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I personally think AO has the ability to be a plug and play 4-3 edge. He needs to get bigger/stronger but he'll likely be 6'3' 245-250 when his rookie season starts which is the exact same size as Khalil Mack was as a rookie and he was a dominant edge defender. I love AO because I think he has the burst/bend to develop into a premier pass rusher and that's why I'd want him at #17. 

I majorly disagree.  If you just move Ferrell over to LDE and move AO to RDE and make no changes your run defense will suffer and he’s going to not be fresh in the 4Q.  Teams will Exploit him.... they’ll put a TE on that side and ChipBlock him right off the ball.  He’s going to need TIME AND added strength before he’s a full time RDE.

Furthermore, playing him at SAM on early downs will let him play in space move, which is where he’s at his best AND get him favorable matchups on TEs and RTs.  Also, we really could use a blitzes on favorable 2nd downs.... and he’d be perfect for that role.

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35 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I'd be happy with one of AO/Horn in the 1st and Barmore in the 2nd. If we take Horn in the 1st, move Arnette inside to NCB. 

I'd like Horn in the 1st as our #1 in the future.  I think that would be good value for him and you're right, stick Arnette as our NCB.  It's a shame we took him in the middle of the first and not having him be a #1 or #2 but that's par for the course with our drafting abilities.

I haven't seen much on Baramore but why do you prefer him over Wilson?  I know Bama has cranked out some good DL over the last few years but I haven't watched any film on him.  

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6 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I majorly disagree.  If you just move Ferrell over to LDE and move AO to RDE and make no changes your run defense will suffer

We had the 24th best rush defense in the league this year with Ferrell and supposedly good run stopping DL on the edge. I'd take my chance with AO and again he held up well in run support in the SEC and at 20 years old he should only to continue to fill out/get stronger. Watch Judon's play from yesterday he's about the same size as AO and was setting the edge with ease as the Ravens completely locked down Henry. 

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4 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I haven't seen much on Baramore but why do you prefer him over Wilson?  I know Bama has cranked out some good DL over the last few years but I haven't watched any film on him.  

I think he has a much higher ceiling than Wilson because he's younger, longer, more athletic, and quicker off of the ball. Barmore got stuck down the depth chart at Alabama as a RS Freshman but flashed whenever he saw the field. Coming into this year he dealt with some injuries but he has played really well as the year has gone on and he has gotten healthy. Over Alabama's last 5 games he has 18 tackles, 5 sacks, 5 TFL, and 2 FF. Wilson to me seems like a guy that has already peaked, he doesn't have elite physical tools and won in college with technique and even then he didn't have great pass rush production at Florida State. Barmore on the other hand is still pretty raw from a technical standpoint and has things to clean up but has still shown flashes of dominance this season. I'd prefer to take the guy with the tools to be elite in Barmore over a guy like Wilson who I think will be good but never great in the NFL. 

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14 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I think that would be good value for him and you're right, stick Arnette as our NCB.  It's a shame we took him in the middle of the first and not having him be a #1 or #2 but that's par for the course with our drafting abilities.

Even in college Arnette was at his best when he played NCB with two elite CB's on the outside in Latimore/Ward. And his physical profile always translated more towards an inside CB due to his lack of speed/length. I tried to be optimistic about the pick but yeah we definitely blew that one. 

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6 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I think he has a much higher ceiling than Wilson because he's younger, longer, more athletic, and quicker off of the ball. Barmore got stuck down the depth chart at Alabama as a RS Freshman but flashed whenever he saw the field. Coming into this year he dealt with some injuries but he has played really well as the year has gone on and he has gotten healthy. Over Alabama's last 5 games he has 18 tackles, 5 sacks, 5 TFL, and 2 FF. Wilson to me seems like a guy that has already peaked, he doesn't have elite physical tools and won in college with technique and even then he didn't have great pass rush production at Florida State. Barmore on the other hand is still pretty raw from a technical standpoint and has things to clean up but has still shown flashes of dominance this season. I'd prefer to take the guy with the tools to be elite in Barmore over a guy like Wilson who I think will be good but never great in the NFL. 

The end of the season numbers you posted regarding Barmore are quite impressive but like I said I have to watch film on him before I can make a determination.

I have watched a bit fo Wilson and he looks the part.  I would disagree that Wilson doesn't have the physical tools, he was a 5 star recruit and according to the Draft Network Wilson is very physical, plays with a high motor and has all the tools to be a disruptor at the next level.  Also Wilson is 22 and Barmore is 21 so not a huge gap in age.  The Draft Network has Wilson ranked higher than Barmore, for whatever that is worth.  I doubt both will be there in the 2nd and hopefully we can land one and the one we land turns out to be an All Pro :)

I also think Nixon 3t from Iowa looks very good from the limited film I have seen.  I will have to watch more from him but I like what I have seen. He could be in play too.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/marvin-wilson/NH8GPFLSmZ

Edited by Frankie2Gunz
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5 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Even in college Arnette was at his best when he played NCB with two elite CB's on the outside in Latimore/Ward. And his physical profile always translated more towards an inside CB due to his lack of speed/length. I tried to be optimistic about the pick but yeah we definitely blew that one. 

I cringed when we made that pick.  Arnette was a reach, he's 24 with average speed and length.  I wanted AJ Terrell just like Gruden and Mayock but their inability to audible once he was picked ahead of us and force a pick based on need rather than going BPA on a team devoid of talent was equally alarming.  Hopefully this year we can nail the draft....

If Arnette can turn into a top end NCB it will lighten he blow but when you pick a CB in the top 20 you expect a shutdown #1 which Arnette will never be. 

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5 hours ago, NYRaider said:

We had the 24th best rush defense in the league this year with Ferrell and supposedly good run stopping DL on the edge. I'd take my chance with AO and again he held up well in run support in the SEC and at 20 years old he should only to continue to fill out/get stronger. Watch Judon's play from yesterday he's about the same size as AO and was setting the edge with ease as the Ravens completely locked down Henry. 

He held up against the run as a 34OLB who played DE on passing downs for the most part.   I wouldn’t call him Stout vs the run.  He’s decent.  but what he’s very good at is lowering his Shoulder to deliver the hit to the OT first and getting off the block and set the edge.  When he lined up as a DE his only responsibility was setting the edge and rarely had any other responsibility.  He always attacks the outside shoulder of the OT to set the edge and makes no attempt to make a play on an inside run.... mainly because Georgia schemes it that way and 2 gaps the DT next to him.  But in the NFL teams will run right to the inside of him and he’ll get blown off the ball.  He definitely couldn’t handle a down blocking TE chipping him.

Judon is 20-25 pounds heavier and much stronger than AO.  Just because Judon can do something doesn’t mean AO can.  This is another example of you having a belief and finding evidence to support it.... instead of 

AO is also many times better rushing in space as a OLB and rushing wide as a DE. He can be stopped in his tracks easily the few times he rushes inside.  If you can’t mix it up OTs can shut you down much easier in the NFL.

AO actually was used in coverage a decent Amount too.  It was mostly zone but he showed be cap get deep drops and has the speed and athleticism to stay with people.

Everything on tape lends to AO projecting as 34OLB first but with the ability I play SAM and 3rd down DE in a 43.

 

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2 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

He held up against the run as a 34OLB who played DE on passing downs for the most part.

Mack came into the league at 23 years old and was 6'3" 251 and was fine as a full time edge player as a rookie and dominated in run support. IIRC AO is 20 years old and will likely show up to the combine at 6'3" 245-250. 

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