Mr Raider Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 On the topic of Azeez Ojulari, I have seen every snap he's played over the last 3 years (really only 2 essentially), he's one of those guys you draft and he's going to find a way to make a big impact. I agree with BP with the Brian Burns comparison, though I actually think Ojulari is better holding up at the point of attack against the run, and a little more disciplined overall than Burns, but agree with the overall point of the comparison. AO is a guy we draft and he'll IMMEDIATELY be our best pure pass rusher, even as a rookie year one. He needs some solid guidance under a big league strength and conditioning program, but even as a rookie with the way the NFL is such a passing league he could easily play DE essentially full time and be fine. I assure you with as bad as this defense has been recently AO playing DE full time would not be our biggest issue. He might not be the best run defending DE but he's very disciplined and he has been far from a weak link in the SEC in terms of rush defense (and he played a fair amount with his hand in the dirt). I get what is being said with the idea of needing a plan and not just drafting players without any idea of how they will be used and just looking at overall talent, but I feel like in the current NFL landscape that train of thought should be applied to players outside of pass rushers. Look at this season, or the past couple seasons for example. We have seen guys like Burns, Josh Allen, TJ Watt, Aaron Donald, Leonard Floyd, Hasson Riddick, Devin White, Jamal Adams, Shaquil Barrett, Yannick Ngakoue, all of those guys have been consistently some of the best pass rushers in the game over the past year or two. And I would argue most of those guys coming out were seen as guys that were questionable fits in this scheme or that scheme due to their weight, length, size overall. My point is, in today's NFL I don't worry so much about my edge player being 6'3" 240 pounds, especially right out of college. Almost all of those guys will pack on an additional 10-15 pounds over their first season or two. I worry about how twitchy they are, how strong they are for their size, if they show good flexibility and bend, and if they're winning with their traits and not winning by jumping the snap count primarily in college. If they are twitchy, explosive, and have good bend, they're going to get in the backfield in today's NFL. The idea of 3-4 or 4-3 is an outdated one. Almost every defense spends 65-70 percent of their time in a nickel or dime defense. On average an NFL team is going to play their base defense only about 25% of the time. I'm not drafting pass rushers worrying mainly about where they will line up in the defense we play the least amount of snaps in. I'm drafting a pass rusher specifically based around the idea of how big of an impact he can make in the nickel, how much of a game changer can he be for our defense on the money downs. And a guy like AO will have a huge place in the current NFL. You draft a guy like him expecting him to earn his money by terrorizing QBs on pass rushing downs. You also draft him with an added boost because of his flexibility. He has the skill set to play some 4-3 SLB, he can play OLB in a 3-4 front, or he can play with his hand in the dirt in the nickel and dime and in "nascar" packages. Bottom line, if you can't easily come up with a plan for using a guy like AO in todays NFL, if that's a super complicated problem you don't believe you can crack you don't belong in 2020's NFL football. That coordinator would clearly be a guy that is stuck in an antiquated line of thinking. You draft him and let him pin his ears back and get to the QB immediately in any and every front, and you can let him hit the weight room to become an every down type of player, and if you want to add in some wrinkles of him playing SLB on 20 percent of the snaps go ahead. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 35 minutes ago, Mr Raider said: Bottom line, if you can't easily come up with a plan for using a guy like AO in todays NFL, if that's a super complicated problem you don't believe you can crack you don't belong in 2020's NFL football. That coordinator would clearly be a guy that is stuck in an antiquated line of thinking. And that was the Guenther's biggest problem, he needed guys that "fit the scheme" so we went after guys that supposedly did and passed on more talented players. Like taking Ferrell over Brian Burns because he supposedly fit the scheme better as a guy that could set the edge in the run game. This year Burns (9 sacks, 9 QB hits, 17 hurries) severely outplayed Ferrell (2 sacks, 7 QB hits, 10 hurries) and the Panthers defense was better than ours against the run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agarcia34 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Definitely think this Bradley hire does give the team a greater chance of going DE with the 17th pick. Gimmie Phillips at 17 and let’s get to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 3 hours ago, NYRaider said: He has the size, length, athleticism, strength, and quickness to be a dominant 3T both in run support and as a pass rusher. Yeah... why you think I’ve advocated for him so much. He’s the complete 3Tech in a class full of specialists. how long have I screamed for a length 3T with size to stop the run? two things can be correct at the same time. Barmore has all the assets of a top 3Tech and is clearly just At the beginning of his rise as a player. But he’s RAW!!! And doesn’t win a lot of pure 1v1s, there’s a lot of gap shooting and twists/stunts.... which is fine... it’s great that he can do those things.... but he needs to refine his pass Rushing moves quickly when he hits the NFL. you do realize even great prospects have areas them Need to improve, right? that’s all we were doing. Some people actually want to Fully analyze the prospects instead of just gloating over them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said: Yeah... why you think I’ve advocated for him so much. He’s the complete 3Tech in a class full of specialists. how long have I screamed for a length 3T with size to stop the run? two things can be correct at the same time. Barmore has all the assets of a top 3Tech and is clearly just At the beginning of his rise as a player. But he’s RAW!!! And doesn’t win a lot of pure 1v1s, there’s a lot of gap shooting and twists/stunts.... which is fine... it’s great that he can do those things.... but he needs to refine his pass Rushing moves quickly when he hits the NFL. you do realize even great prospects have areas them Need to improve, right? I've literally said that why I like Barmore so much is because he has shown flashes of dominance while still being raw and having a lot of room for growth from a technical standpoint. He has been able to dominate using his physical gifts this year, if he gets proper coaching the sky is the limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaKid7 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Great write up on AO Mr. Raider thank you. Really like him and would be super happy if he’s a raider come draft day. Also Zaven Collins is a bad man. I really like Phillips too and he could be the best edge out of this class when it’s all said and done but he could also be a huge whiff. It’s a tough pick for a team like us who cannot afford to miss on another 1st round pick. I’d totally support the pick if MM is cool with his medicals and lack of production/rough start to career but it’s risky no doubt. I just hope our first 3 picks are Edge, IDL, and FS in that order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Mr Raider said: On the topic of Azeez Ojulari, I have seen every snap he's played over the last 3 years (really only 2 essentially), he's one of those guys you draft and he's going to find a way to make a big impact. I agree with BP with the Brian Burns comparison, though I actually think Ojulari is better holding up at the point of attack against the run, and a little more disciplined overall than Burns, but agree with the overall point of the comparison. AO is a guy we draft and he'll IMMEDIATELY be our best pure pass rusher, even as a rookie year one. He needs some solid guidance under a big league strength and conditioning program, but even as a rookie with the way the NFL is such a passing league he could easily play DE essentially full time and be fine. I assure you with as bad as this defense has been recently AO playing DE full time would not be our biggest issue. He might not be the best run defending DE but he's very disciplined and he has been far from a weak link in the SEC in terms of rush defense (and he played a fair amount with his hand in the dirt). I get what is being said with the idea of needing a plan and not just drafting players without any idea of how they will be used and just looking at overall talent, but I feel like in the current NFL landscape that train of thought should be applied to players outside of pass rushers. Look at this season, or the past couple seasons for example. We have seen guys like Burns, Josh Allen, TJ Watt, Aaron Donald, Leonard Floyd, Hasson Riddick, Devin White, Jamal Adams, Shaquil Barrett, Yannick Ngakoue, all of those guys have been consistently some of the best pass rushers in the game over the past year or two. And I would argue most of those guys coming out were seen as guys that were questionable fits in this scheme or that scheme due to their weight, length, size overall. My point is, in today's NFL I don't worry so much about my edge player being 6'3" 240 pounds, especially right out of college. Almost all of those guys will pack on an additional 10-15 pounds over their first season or two. I worry about how twitchy they are, how strong they are for their size, if they show good flexibility and bend, and if they're winning with their traits and not winning by jumping the snap count primarily in college. If they are twitchy, explosive, and have good bend, they're going to get in the backfield in today's NFL. The idea of 3-4 or 4-3 is an outdated one. Almost every defense spends 65-70 percent of their time in a nickel or dime defense. On average an NFL team is going to play their base defense only about 25% of the time. I'm not drafting pass rushers worrying mainly about where they will line up in the defense we play the least amount of snaps in. I'm drafting a pass rusher specifically based around the idea of how big of an impact he can make in the nickel, how much of a game changer can he be for our defense on the money downs. And a guy like AO will have a huge place in the current NFL. You draft a guy like him expecting him to earn his money by terrorizing QBs on pass rushing downs. You also draft him with an added boost because of his flexibility. He has the skill set to play some 4-3 SLB, he can play OLB in a 3-4 front, or he can play with his hand in the dirt in the nickel and dime and in "nascar" packages. Bottom line, if you can't easily come up with a plan for using a guy like AO in todays NFL, if that's a super complicated problem you don't believe you can crack you don't belong in 2020's NFL football. That coordinator would clearly be a guy that is stuck in an antiquated line of thinking. You draft him and let him pin his ears back and get to the QB immediately in any and every front, and you can let him hit the weight room to become an every down type of player, and if you want to add in some wrinkles of him playing SLB on 20 percent of the snaps go ahead. Ojulari is a flat out baller. The bend burst and moves off the edge are something we badly need. And he's far from soft. You can never have enough pass rushers. If we sign Melvin Ingram, I do think it's possible we go with Barmore or "reach" on another IDL, but as long as we bolster the line I'm good with anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted January 13, 2021 Author Share Posted January 13, 2021 44 minutes ago, CaliforniaKid7 said: Great write up on AO Mr. Raider thank you. Really like him and would be super happy if he’s a raider come draft day. Also Zaven Collins is a bad man. I really like Phillips too and he could be the best edge out of this class when it’s all said and done but he could also be a huge whiff. It’s a tough pick for a team like us who cannot afford to miss on another 1st round pick. I’d totally support the pick if MM is cool with his medicals and lack of production/rough start to career but it’s risky no doubt. I just hope our first 3 picks are Edge, IDL, and FS in that order. A lot of solid options at 17. Too bad some of these options weren’t there in 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Watching bama Ohio st hate me if you want but the coach in me hates baremores stance wtf is that but what position do y’all see him at realistically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) Bama og #65 young Nate Newton Edited January 13, 2021 by NCOUGHMAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 On 12/31/2020 at 2:51 AM, jimkelly02 said: A lot of people seem to want a 2nd round DT due to the talent in this class not having a top 15/20 DT.... at the moment. my question is.... if we go DT in round 2 would we also have to sign a veteran DT to act as a stop gap starter? we relied on Maliek Collins and when he failed we paid dearly. Expecting a 2nd round player to start is never a great idea plus we don’t just need a starter, we need seriously improved play. Anyone we draft (IMO) must have height and range. I said this all TC: we need a DT with length and range! also, do we resign Hankins to start at NT? Personally, I’d like to resign Hankins plus draft his backup/successor. I said in TC we need a 2nd NT/run stuffing DT and was absolutely Right! That said I’d like to double up on DT and sign/draft a 3T and then draft a NT in the 4-6th. I really wish we got to see David Irving play, and hope we resigning him if he’s proven to have his act together and his play was good in practice. He’s the perfect type of player to fight for a 9th DL spot on the team in camp.he’s got the length and range we need. with the large number of underclass man already declaring and more expecting to declare plus the increased likeliness of prospects being Boom/bust due to the COVID season limiting players playing (and thus scouting) ..... I’m a massive believer in trying to trade down. I don’t see a elite edge prospect falling to us at 14-17 (I have my doubt about Kwity Paye as a rusher.... he’s too much like Ferrell in that he lacks bend, burst, and ability to run the arc) and thus we should try to trade down. Hopefully we could a few more pics in rounds 2-5. The more picks the more chances to hit. This is the absolute year to spread out risk and increase chances to hit. ideally though i really really really want to sign Leonard Williams.... and would over pay to get him. That’s if and a big if he hits the market. But if he doesn’t Dalvin Tomlinson would be a good 2nd option. Idk if they can resign both. Totally agree here, you know I want to draft a DT every year but I'd probably draft at least 2 this year!!! I'd look to re-sign Hankins and try and get a bigger run stuffing DT in the later rounds who can get his feet wet and learn behind Hankins plus I'd also try and draft a penetrating, more pass rushing DT too. Nixon looks good to me but he might need some seasoning and a really good point you made was needing that immediate impact. I do like Leonard Williams but I don't think I'd try and sign him to a big contract and draft a 1nd round DT, either/or. I'd probably look to bring in a 'bridge' type player like Collins (but obviously better) to play for a year on a prove it deal and hope the high draft pick could learn year 1 and take over year 2. Tomlinson I really like as the bigger DT/NT if we can't get a deal with Hankins done, guys who I'd look at as 1 year bridge players could be guys like Shelby Harris, Jack Crawford, Hassan Ridgeway maybe Larry Ogunjobi if he doesn't get the good deal he's looking for. I'd also give Irving, Hurst and Vickers a shot too and being that guy. We've failed at DT for far too long, time we got this position sorted out as the fulcrum of our D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 On 1/1/2021 at 4:11 AM, Frankie2Gunz said: I agree on doubling up on the DT's, that has been a glaring weakness on this team as long as I can remember. Everyone loves a sexy O but what I love is a nasty D and we haven't had on for as long as I can remember. It all starts up front as and our interior Dline is straight garbage. We have players starting on our interior that should be depth pieces. If we can be stout against the run and get interior pressure this D will take a step forward. I too feel your angst 😁😀 I am absolutely fed up with our D being such a laughing stock, being so soft and pathetic............ when I was growing up the Raiders D was nasty, aggressive, turnover hungry and intimidating to play against. They were dirty and mean but most of all Good, we literally have none of those qualities now. We are the punching bags of the NFL in defence and we must start by making the front better, as you say it all trickle effects from there. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 6 hours ago, Darbsk said: Totally agree here, you know I want to draft a DT every year but I'd probably draft at least 2 this year!!! I'd literally cry if we somehow ended up with Leonard Williams in free agency and Christian Barmore in the draft. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 All I know is if I hear any excuses for picks based on scheme fits, I'm gonna puke. 🤞 we never pass up transcendent talent in the 1st for "scheme fit" ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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