jimkelly02 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 4 hours ago, BayRaider said: These are all make or break years for Abram, Ferrell, Arnette, and Ruggs. WR's don't need three years to develop, Ruggs needs to ball in 2021. It's a make or break year for Arnette as an Outside Corner, or he goes to the Nickel in 2022. For Ferrell and Abram, it's legit either have a solid season in 2021 or you're a bust, as much as I hate to say it. If 3 of 4 of those players fail, Mayock needs the boot. I agree, however, it is too early to judge. But we cannot give Mayock free passes like we did for McKenzie for a couple years. This team let McKenzie live off the 2014 draft class wayyyy too long. It took three terrible drafts in a row just for people on this board not to bash anyone who criticizes Reggie. 110%.... if Mayock can’t draft first round picks that are worth first round pick after a few years .... let alone find us positive value in the draft .... he’s gotta go. I like him as a person and all by he’s failed a lot. It’s a our results. I mean serious I could have done a much better job scouting off my small screen iPhone 8 and iPad then he has With limitless resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Again.... why is everyone putting this on Mayock?? Gruden has the final say. Gruden wanted Ferrell because he fit what Paul Guenther wanted. Mayock loved Lamb reportedly, Gruden wanted his version of Tyreek Hill so he takes Ruggs. Mark Davis gave him the keys to the franchise. Stop blaming Mayock without also placing blame on the coach whom is calling the final shots. Mayock is a glorified scout. That's it. Is it because Gruden has a 10 year contract that everyone is ignoring the real problem here because it can't be fixed? Is that it? Saying Mayock needs replaced if "this or that happens" is completely ridiculous as another pseudo GM would be brought in to the same powerless role. GRUDEN is the problem with this franchise and the roster construction. Start pointing fingers in the right spot. Exactly what got him run out of Tampa is repeating itself in Vegas from the poor draft picks to favoring veteran players. This franchise is going nowhere with Gruden in control.... if that isn't obvious by now, you simply don't want to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 (edited) If you think everyone is refusing to blame Gruden, you aren't paying attention. Let me know when he's getting any praise for anything though. Edited January 19, 2021 by oakdb36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 10 minutes ago, oakdb36 said: If you think everyone is refusing to blame Gruden, you aren't paying attention. Let me know when he's getting any praise for anything though. I undersstand he's being blamed for the the staff choices and sluggish offensive performance. But consensus in relation to the draft seems placed on Mayock. Going as far as saying "if 3 of 4 of those players fail, he needs the boot" referring to Ferrell, Abram, Arnette and Ruggs. and "we can't give Mayock free passes like we did McKenzie". Or how "Mayock clearly doesn't understand draft pick value". And talking about his "mistakes in the draft" Seems fans want to point fingers at Mayock for how the draft was handled and players that were picked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 He has been blamed for everything since the day he was hired. I'll never understand why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 7 hours ago, BayRaider said: These are all make or break years for Abram, Ferrell, Arnette, and Ruggs. WR's don't need three years to develop, Ruggs needs to ball in 2021. It's a make or break year for Arnette as an Outside Corner, or he goes to the Nickel in 2022. For Ferrell and Abram, it's legit either have a solid season in 2021 or you're a bust, as much as I hate to say it. If 3 of 4 of those players fail, Mayock needs the boot. I agree, however, it is too early to judge. But we cannot give Mayock free passes like we did for McKenzie for a couple years. This team let McKenzie live off the 2014 draft class wayyyy too long. It took three terrible drafts in a row just for people on this board not to bash anyone who criticizes Reggie. Well that 2014 draft was pretty sweet lol. I agree though, Reggie couldn't draft in the second to save his life. As for Mayock though, I don't want to just sit here and say he completely failed, just because of his drafting in the first round. You look at his first draft class and we found Mullen, Crosby, Renfrow, Moreau, Jacobs. Literally 5 starting caliber players in a single draft. Moreau won't start because we have arguably a top 3 TE right now and I consider Renfrow a starter with his production from the slot and at PR. Then you look at this season and we found our #2 CB (he isn't that good but will improve), Ruggs who is a deep threat that did have some pretty good plays for us, John Simpson who should develop into a starting caliber OG, and Bryan Edwards who has the physical traits to be a great WR for us long term, just went down due to injury. I'm not going to write off Mayock as our GM. Not yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jerry said: Well that 2014 draft was pretty sweet lol. I agree though, Reggie couldn't draft in the second to save his life. As for Mayock though, I don't want to just sit here and say he completely failed, just because of his drafting in the first round. You look at his first draft class and we found Mullen, Crosby, Renfrow, Moreau, Jacobs. Literally 5 starting caliber players in a single draft. Moreau won't start because we have arguably a top 3 TE right now and I consider Renfrow a starter with his production from the slot and at PR. Then you look at this season and we found our #2 CB (he isn't that good but will improve), Ruggs who is a deep threat that did have some pretty good plays for us, John Simpson who should develop into a starting caliber OG, and Bryan Edwards who has the physical traits to be a great WR for us long term, just went down due to injury. I'm not going to write off Mayock as our GM. Not yet. After 2 years amongst the 2019 class: Jacobs is 1st in rushing yards and rushing TDs. Renfrow is 5th in receptions, 7th in receiving yards and 12th in receiving TDs (9th for WRs). Moreau is 11th in receiving TDs (3rd for TEs). Mullen is tied for 5th in int. Crosby is 1st in sacks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: Exactly what got him run out of Tampa is repeating itself in Vegas from the poor draft picks to favoring veteran players. This franchise is going nowhere with Gruden in control.... if that isn't obvious by now, you simply don't want to see it. Zay Jones playing more then Bryan Edwards and Jason Witten playing more then Foster Moreau all season proved Gruden is who he is. In fairness to Gruden though I think he's okay as a coach but he definitely has too much control. He shouldn't have final say in personnel decisions and I think he should also bring in another smart young OC to help with play calling duties. Our offense under Gruden has improved every year and took a major leap this season. 2018: 336 ypg, 18.1 ppg 2019: 363 ypg, 19.8 ppg 2020: 383 ypg (most in franchise history), 27.1 ppg (5th most in franchise history) Our defensive personnel decisions and him trusting Guenther has been his down fall thus far. I would've preferred Kris Richard at DC but I am just praying that Bradley is an upgrade over Paulie G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 47 minutes ago, oakdb36 said: After 2 years amongst the 2019 class: Jacobs is 1st in rushing yards and rushing TDs. Renfrow is 5th in receptions, 7th in receiving yards and 12th in receiving TDs (9th for WRs). Moreau is 11th in receiving TDs (3rd for TEs). Mullen is tied for 5th in int. Crosby is 1st in sacks. In fairness it's way too early to judge our 2020 class as well considering they had no OTA, no preseason, a limited training camp and their rookie year took place during the weirdest and probably most difficult year in NFL history. 11. Ruggs - Missed 3 games due to Covid/Injury and dealt with injuries even in the games he was on the field. When he flashed he looked like a guy with the potential to be a big time WR and we've seen a lot of rookie WR's have okay debuts and then break out in year 2. IIRC there was a stat posted that he led all rookie WR in yards of separation per route and Ted Nguyen who does great film work said Ruggs was getting open consistently, it'll be on Gruden/Carr to get him involved more going forward instead of only targeting him on deep throws. 19. Arnette - Missed 7 games due to a broken wrist, concussion, and covid but when he was on the field he graded out as one of the worst CB's in the NFL. Personally I'd like to sign or draft a starting outside CB and move him inside but regardless not all hope is lost with him. 81. Edwards - Missed 3 games due to injury and seemed to be dealing with injury issues all year. That last game against Denver flashed what kind of ability he has though so going into year 2 if he can stay healthy I think he can be a player for us. 100. Muse - Couldn't even make the roster with one of the least talented LB groups in the league which is concerning because the pick was a head scratcher at the time. But he was transitioning into a new position with very little offseason time and he has some tools so maybe he can at least develop in a special teams war daddy. 109. Simpson - Struggled in limited action at OG but I still think he has the tools to be a good back up and potentially a starting OG in year 2/3. 139. Robertson - Only played 35 snaps all year and when he was on the field I remember him getting burnt a couple of times. In college he was a baller though so ideally he'll be able to contribute in the slot for us in year 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: Zay Jones playing more then Bryan Edwards and Jason Witten playing more then Foster Moreau all season proved Gruden is who he is. In fairness to Gruden though I think he's okay as a coach but he definitely has too much control. He shouldn't have final say in personnel decisions and I think he should also bring in another smart young OC to help with play calling duties. Our offense under Gruden has improved every year and took a major leap this season. 2018: 336 ypg, 18.1 ppg 2019: 363 ypg, 19.8 ppg 2020: 383 ypg (most in franchise history), 27.1 ppg (5th most in franchise history) Our defensive personnel decisions and him trusting Guenther has been his down fall thus far. I would've preferred Kris Richard at DC but I am just praying that Bradley is an upgrade over Paulie G. NFL scoring is also up league wide too. Perhaps it just the team rising with the league average Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Gruden is the biggest problem with the Raiders IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: NFL scoring is also up league wide too. Perhaps it just the team rising with the league average Our offense wasn't the problem. Again in wins our opponents scored 23.6 ppg, in our losses our opponents scored 36.1 ppg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Our offense wasn't the problem. Again in wins our opponents scored 23.6 ppg, in our losses our opponents scored 36.1 ppg. Stats don't tell the entire story of games. Carr lost 8 fumbles this year which led to points off TOs. Colts Bills and Bucs Losses they piled late TDs after the offense quit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 11 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: NFL scoring is also up league wide too. Perhaps it just the team rising with the league average Perhaps you could have looked it up yourself but they went from 24th to 10th in scoring. So no, it has nothing to do with the league average rising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: Stats don't tell the entire story of games. Carr lost 8 fumbles this year which led to points off TOs. Colts Bills and Bucs Losses they piled late TDs after the offense quit Football really is a game of inches though. On one end we were Vic Fangio/Greg Williams meltdowns away from losing 7 straight and finishing 6-10. And on the other hand we were a play away from beating the Chiefs, Chargers, and Dolphins and could've easily been 11-5 and snuck into the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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