Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
RaidersAreOne

Everything Offseason Programs (OTA's and more)

Recommended Posts

defense is better than it's been in while in depth and youth mixed. with that said, that's also because how bad it's been over the years. next year they'll add more to d-line and other areas. this is a decent foundation though. 

 

the offense is what needs to make a big leap. Defense at #17 in league makes big difference. offense needs to be top 10. we will see if gruden can use the weapons right and Carr delivers. 

 

9/10 wins should be obtainable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, roi34 said:

defense is better than it's been in while in depth and youth mixed. with that said, that's also because how bad it's been over the years. next year they'll add more to d-line and other areas. this is a decent foundation though. 

 

the offense is what needs to make a big leap. Defense at #17 in league makes big difference. offense needs to be top 10. we will see if gruden can use the weapons right and Carr delivers. 

 

9/10 wins should be obtainable.

I dont know how others feel about this results wise but Gruden has had 3 years this upcoming season with almost infinite control, 6 no. 1st round draft choices and 7 no. In rounds 2 and 3 with plenty of capital in FA and having taken over a team that went 18-14 in the preceding 2 years. If we cant get at least 9 wins after that then I fear there is something amiss. We really should be at a minimum in the playoff hunt until the very last week and I personally would be disappointed and feel we under achieved if we failed to make the playoffs. I dont think your 9 or 10 wins is unreasonable at all to expect 😀  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, roi34 said:

defense is better than it's been in while in depth and youth mixed. with that said, that's also because how bad it's been over the years. next year they'll add more to d-line and other areas. this is a decent foundation though. 

 

the offense is what needs to make a big leap. Defense at #17 in league makes big difference. offense needs to be top 10. we will see if gruden can use the weapons right and Carr delivers. 

 

9/10 wins should be obtainable.

9 wins is my floor, 8 wins if the injury bug hits key positions.

Carr and Williams have something to prove on Offense. Toss in Waller, Ag, Ruggs, Edwards, Renfrow, and Jacobs, our playmakers have the best look we've had in years. Certainly more talent than the Carr, Crabtree, Cooper, Murray, Roberts,  Rivera/Walford lineup from 2016. 

Defensive is where it matters though. Our offense has usually been at least adequate under Gruden, held back mostly by the terrible state of the D. Hard to win when we can't stop people from scoring and always playing 10pt deficits  I'd go out on a limb and say our O is deep playoff push quality. The D? 

We've invested so much in the D, particularly following the Mack trade. If our D playmakers we've heavily invested in don't start panning out, we're in trouble. Our LB corps is paper thin, we're still taking reaches at LB and CB, and our DT situation is a joke considering the investments made on Hall, Hurst, and Vanderdoes in recent years. I'm not interested in the same personnel mistakes being made by a new regime, but so far that's basically what we've seen on D. It's definitely put up or shut up time for the D and the decision makers. 

We should be in the WC hunt late, we shouldn't be taking embarrassing losses, and we should be sniffing 11 wins, not hoping for 9 in week 15. If we are, I'm calling it a failure barring mitigating circumstances. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Darbsk said:

I dont know how others feel about this results wise but Gruden has had 3 years this upcoming season with almost infinite control, 6 no. 1st round draft choices and 7 no. In rounds 2 and 3 with plenty of capital in FA and having taken over a team that went 18-14 in the preceding 2 years. If we cant get at least 9 wins after that then I fear there is something amiss. We really should be at a minimum in the playoff hunt until the very last week and I personally would be disappointed and feel we under achieved if we failed to make the playoffs. I dont think your 9 or 10 wins is unreasonable at all to expect 😀  

yeah but mayock has only had 2 drafts including this one. this is grudens 3rd year, this is a bigger year. but you can't look at roster and tell me this isn't the most talent we've had on offense in years  even defense is better on paper. 

in 2 years mayock and gruden have done a nice job given the time. ON paper. we shall see on the field.

people also discrediting the fact Carr is in system for 3 years now. first time ever that's been the case with the coaching carrousel we had prior.

Edited by roi34

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, roi34 said:

yeah but mayock has only had 2 drafts including this one. this is grudens 3rd year, this is a bigger year. but you can't look at roster and tell me this isn't the most talent we've had on offense in years  even defense is better on paper. 

in 2 years mayock and gruden have done a nice job given the time. ON paper. we shall see on the field.

people also discrediting the fact Carr is in system for 3 years now. first time ever that's been the case with the coaching carrousel we had prior.

I agree, on paper this seems to be the most talented roster we have had in a long while. We are relying on a number of 2nd year players to step up but it is a results game. With the capital we've invested in both draft and FA we do need to start seeing results.

Gruden took over a 6-10 team one year removed from going 12-4 and the playoffs so it wasnt like we were the 0-16 Lions or the Browns he inherited, we had potential clearly. He's on the largest contract ever for a coach so we simply cant go 7-9 this year with flashes, we need to start seeing results. Mark Davis has done a terrific job with the stadium and off the field and given Gruden everything he needs. 

Mayock has only had 2 drafts, true, but Gruden has run the show for 3 plus 3 periods of FA. Its time now to start seeing the dividends IMO.

Edited by Darbsk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we can become a good team this year with the potential to become great with some aggressive offseason moves next year. Let's see. I'm optimistic.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Darbsk said:

I agree, on paper this seems to be the most talented roster we have had in a long while. We are relying on a number of 2nd year players to step up but it is a results game. With the capital we've invested in both draft and FA we do need to start seeing results.

Gruden took over a 6-10 team one year removed from going 12-4 and the playoffs so it wasnt like we were the 0-16 Lions or the Browns he inherited, we had potential clearly. He's on the largest contract ever for a coach so we simply cant go 7-9 this year with flashes, we need to start seeing results. Mark Davis has done a terrific job with the stadium and off the field and given Gruden everything he needs. 

Mayock has only had 2 drafts, true, but Gruden has run the show for 3 plus 3 periods of FA. Its time now to start seeing the dividends IMO.

I agree this year we need results, first two years were trimming the fat and bringing in his guys. so now he has them. time to put up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I think we can become a good team this year with the potential to become great with some aggressive offseason moves next year. Let's see. I'm optimistic.

I’m optimistic as well that we can be a 9-7 playoff team.... but I think that’s going to require some acquisitions.  While Lee and Hall weren’t anything special, we still just lost 2 starters/contributors to the defense.  It’s not their loss that concerns me as much as whose going to make the team now: Daniel Ross and Bryce Hager/???.

Right now Daniel Ross is the 4th DT.... and would have to play a lot of run downs because Collins nor Hurst is very good versus the run.  I don’t buy this Maleik Mania that Grudens spouting.  I went back and watched 4 full games of Collins.... the top 4 most productive games from his stat sheet: philly week 7, NYG week 9, NE week 11, and Detroit week 10.  
I was hoping to see someone who was better against the run than his 21 combined (solo and assisted) tackles a year average would indicate.

Well, I came away thinking we need a DT to stuff the run more than ever.  Collins is pretty below average as a run defender.   And to be honest.... wasn’t inspired by his pass rush either.  I bought into the hype of those flashy twitter videos from when we signed him, but when I watched the tape I was very disappointed.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CollMa00.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/8/2020 at 12:00 AM, Darbsk said:

I dont think its particularly the starters we're worried about, moreso a lack of depth at DE, DL and LB. Now, I really like Nassib and think he can have a big role but guys like Ross, Key, Wilbur haven't proven to be even average starters thus far and the likelihood is that at least one of our starters will go down with injury or illness for at least a few games. How do you fancy our chances if, say, Crosby and Kwiatkoski were to miss 10 games between them?

I like the starting look but think we're 2 or 3 instances of misfortune away from being a patchwork quilt in D. 😬 I think that is the issue most have with the current roster makeup.

ThAnk you!  I’ve never said our starters stink.  I said our depth is incredibly weak and it’s crazy to think Daniel Ross and Vickers/Panasuik are in line to be our 8th and 9th DLmen on the active roster..... in a year when it’s inevitably that injuries or Covid takes starters out of the lineup.

 

where did I ever say we’ll be 3-13?  I said we have the depth of a team that drafts at the top of the first round.  Good teams have depth.... that’s why the win!  Sorry that wasn’t directed at you... more so the *** posters who took one little line in my comment and misconstrued what I actually said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Btw... I went back and watched Maleik Collins top 4 games (statistically) of ‘19.

the guy only averages 21 combined tackles a year.... and plays a lot of snaps..... but i was shocked at how poor against the run he was.

he gets little to no penetration on running plays.  He’s often blown off the ball.  There’s no way he should be used on obvious run downs.  I don’t guy the hype that everyone made when we signed him.  He‘s a good DT for a pass rusher, but as a run defender he’s a small liability as well as very good inactive.

Im sorry if that offends anyone here who wants to blindly believe he’s the future star DT For us.  But go watch the tape (NFL gamepass is totally free still) and you’ll see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/6/2020 at 2:10 AM, drfrey13 said:

We have players at other positions that could be borderline starters for other teams that might not see the field this year on our team.  We do have some chips if we want to go after some needs from other teams.   We have DBs, Gs, and TE's.  We might even be able to get something out of a non starting WR.  I can not remember who said this but it makes sense that teams will value vets over rookies with such a small window to evaluate.  Not that I think we can get a lot for them but hat gives Agholor, Jones, and Carrier a lot more value.  If I am Mayock I would at least see if I could make some depth trades or signings.  To put it into perspective we have more SS in camp than DEs.

I totally agree we have almost excess quality depth at G/C, WR, CB, etc

hopefully we can make some trades to fill in some of the holes on the front 7.  
 

I think the issues I laid out are very fixable.... it’s not doomsday.  If we added a DT to play run downs with Hankins, a “9th DLmen”, “Starting” SAM LB, plus a few guys here and there to fill in depth on the defense we’ll be a playoff team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/7/2020 at 10:18 PM, OG_C2X said:

Brandon Thorn, who is top flight when it comes to the trenches, has said the Raiders DL are his favorite up and coming unit in the NFL. 

Littleton is an allpro beast and Kwiatkowski flashed as very good in his time as a starter in Chicago, definitely improvements over last year. Morrow and Muse can split the 15-20 snaps we are talking about as the 3rd LB in base. 

No part of this roster is that of a 3 win team. Baring major injury 9 wins is the floor for this team in 2020.

I think we go 13-3 and take the AFC West and the Gruden offense that was set to take the league by storm last year with AB will finally ve revealed. 

I like Thorn a lot.... very good analysis from him.  But I’d disagree with his statement.  We have very good quality in the front 7 but very very poor depth.  
 

I watched a ton of Maleik Collin’s game tape and he’s a very poor run defender.  Not only is he a poor defender he’s highly inactive.  Collins and Hurst should only be used as pass rushers.  Then I went back and watched Daniel Ross’s game tape and wasn’t impressed at all.  I think we really need a run stuffing DT to play alongside Hankins.  
 

I love Littleton and am high on Kwiatkoski..... but he can’t be so nieve to disregard the possibility that he might have benefitted from that Chicago DLine in front of him.  While I think he’s going to be good we should at least have decent depth behind him in case of injury.

When did i say 3 wins? Never.  I said the our front 7 looks like a team draft I top 5 (or something like that).  
Currently, Daniel Ross, Vickers/Panasuik, Usher/Phillips/White, and Leavitt would be making the team.  Those guys are some scrubs.... and only teams that pick high in the draft have scrubs like that on the team.  And especially this year we can’t seriously go into the season with such low quality players on the active roster because it’s inevitable those guys would be eventually playing major minutes at some point in the  year.

 

Everyones got their Raiders preseason glasses On and only seeing the hype.  Yes there’s a lot to be happy about but what is Nassib doesn’t take that next step and is only the borderline starter quality player he’s been the last 2 years?  What is Key doesn’t take the next step?  His only claim to fame is missing a ton of possible sacks..... plus he’s yet to add any bulk to his frame and for a 235lb DE he isn’t exactly a speed rusher.  
 

I’ve got great optimism that Marinelli can improve these guys.... but marinelli also has question marks as of late.  Yes he’s a DL legend but he failed recently to develop the IDL in Dallas.  But he did get Quinn back to being a beast.  I’m not saying he isn’t good I’m saying he isn’t guaranteed to turn every player into a star.  
 

lastly.... I dare anyone to go back and watch M.Collins ‘19 tape and tell me his a stud run defender.  And that was under Marinelli.

Edited by jimkelly02

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/5/2020 at 11:59 AM, OG_C2X said:

The bolded is one of tbe most assine thing i have read in a long long time my man. 

Are we improved from last year? Did we pick in the top 3? 

Case closed goodnight.

Collins is better that played DT for us last year. He is the clear cut starting 3T. He played more snaps than anyone else on the Dallas defense last year.

Hankins is a servicable starting 1T that is excellent against the run and can occasionally push the pocket.

Hurst is a really good rotational 3rd DT who will benefit like crazy from having Rod Marinelli. 

Crosby and Ferrell are our starters and will improve from being in year 2 of the NFL and having Rod Marinelli as their positional coach. 

Nassib is an improvement as a 3rd DE over both Mayowa and Jordan. 

If Key can stay healthy he has potential to be a good situational pass rusher.

Littleton and Kwiatkowski are better than anyone that has played in our LB corps in years. SAM LB will play 40% of Snaps. Between Muse and Morrow we will just fine. 

Personnel wise we have improved on the DL and LB and coaching we have improved at DL bringing in Marinelli. 

Come on chicken little the sky isn't falling because we didn't sign Jordan. He probably doesn't make the niners final roster.

Nice try.... if you think our DL currently is up to The level of a playoff team, especially in year when the league expects so many players to be inactive ion game day they expanded the PS roster and rules, your the asinine one.

1.  I didn’t say were a 3 win team or going to win a few games.... try reading again.... several other posters were able to correctly read and understand what I said..:.. unfortunately you couldn’t.

I said the DL+LBs we have are comparable to some of the worst teams in the league.    Sure Littleton+Crosby are a studs and there’s some good players like Kwiatkoski, Hankins, etc.  

but inevitably we’d currently see CFL players like Daniel Ross and Vickers playing a decent Amount of snaps.  
 

Even Crosby.... a lot his sacks came versus Very bad competition.... like Versus Cincy when he had 4 going against a bum backup RG playing LT for some idiotic reason.  Now I know you love taking what I said and blowing it out of proportion so I’ll be very direct here:  yes I think Crosby is going to be a stud DE for us..... but it’s a great leap of faith to think he’s going to get the same production or better than last year.... unless he massively improves.  He’s going from being the guy who a team felt comfortable blocking with a backup RG playing LT (And a 6’5 345 immobile roadgrader at that) to the player teams will  concentrate on and chip and gameplay for.

my point isn’t that I don’t like Crosby it’s that people on this board are assuming every player will hit high expectations..... and that isn’t going to happen.  Their not all gonna bust either..... it’s likely to be they land somewhere in the middle.

 

2.  Littleton is a stud and Kwiatkoski is likely to be a be high end starter.  But take off the silver and black hype lenses and you see a LB who has some question marks too.  Maybe he overcomes those but The questions are still valid.  
 

3.  Our Front 7 depth is horrible and that’s what i was mainly talking about.  
I only was high on Jordan because he played good for us and if we didn’t want to spend money on a DE we could resign him for the veteran minimum.... as there is an unused cap credit for resigning your own players up to something like 2.3M and they only cost the veteran minimum...... that’s why I was so high on Jordan.  For the money he would have been one of the better values to cost FA DEs available.  And I’m not sold on Key being a quality DPR..... he’s still 235ish and lacking the hulk needed to play DE and his only production is missing a ton of sacks..... maybe he fulfills his draft potential but it’s looking less likely everyday.

 

Yes, i still love the quality of our front 7 and think many of the questions and concerns of the players will end up bringing invalid, as they will develop nicely..... but even then our depth sucks.

 

and nice little chicken little reference.... but no the sky isn’t falling.  We just need to make a few additions to the front 7 if we want to be a playoff team.

Edited by jimkelly02

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...