2021 Draft Thread

[Jag68Sid87]

15 hours ago, xrade said:

So you just don’t want a QB at 2 or top 5. Unfortunately, if you think Wilson or Fields will be the best QB’s in this draft they won’t last past 4 or 8. So if we are sold on one of them, we would probably have to take one at 2. Now, I believe they are the 2 best prospects outside of Lawrence. Jones and Lance can be had a little later but most likely not at 23.

If JD feels Jones can work in our system, great trade down a little and draft him. I think he could work in the right system unlike every other bama QB in recent history. But it would require a trade down and that brings risk of him not being there anymore or someone jumping us.

Maybe it would be helpful for me to understand who you would want at QB next year and when we draft him. And do you really believe any FA QB will fill the role?

 

I would be OK with drafting a QB at No. 2 if he does not start Week 1. However, there would be too much pressure from the media for him NOT to start, and that is where the problems start.

Looking back, can anyone argue that starting Darnold right away was the absolute wrong decision? Some of us were arguing for Teddy Bridgewater to start for us that year, but we decided to do the stupid thing of trading Bridgewater to clear the path for Darnold, who had no clue yet on how to be a professional NFL quarterback (some would argue that he still does not).

If we're drafting Zach Wilson at No. 2, and we're sitting him in favor of someone like an Alex Smith (just as an example), I would be OK with that decision. But again, do we really want our new rookie head coach to have that kind of firestorm of a QB controversy right away?

Basically, so long as we learn from the Darnold debacle, I will be happy. If we start the No. 2 pick in Week 1, it means we haven't learned a damn thing...despite all new people making these critical decisions.

Which, in the end, would be very typically Jets.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

18 hours ago, jetfuel34 said:

June Jones has T Law as qb 3. He has Wilson 1 and Jones 2. He made a very good point about deep throws over 20 yards. T Law tends to watch the ball on the throw instead of the WR. This makes for low %. 

June Jones? Give me a break.

 

I would love it if Jacksonville would be one of these so-called teams that do not believe Trevor Lawrence is the absolute best player in this draft. If there was a lucky franchise pitching second overall, you can be sure that the Jaguars would pass on Lawrence. But since we are No. 2, naturally the Jags will be smart about it.

I find it laughable how these experts come out of the woodwork a few months before the draft because they want exposure, traffic for their websites, etc. and decide to make these bold statements. Nobody has played a snap since the National Championship game, and yet they decide to say these things now. What a joke! 

As far as I'm concerned, anybody who truly believes Lawrence is not the No. 1 pick is using paralysis by analysis at this point. 

[GangGreen420]

3 minutes ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

 

I would be OK with drafting a QB at No. 2 if he does not start Week 1. However, there would be too much pressure from the media for him NOT to start, and that is where the problems start.

Looking back, can anyone argue that starting Darnold right away was the absolute wrong decision? Some of us were arguing for Teddy Bridgewater to start for us that year, but we decided to do the stupid thing of trading Bridgewater to clear the path for Darnold, who had no clue yet on how to be a professional NFL quarterback (some would argue that he still does not).

If we're drafting Zach Wilson at No. 2, and we're sitting him in favor of someone like an Alex Smith (just as an example), I would be OK with that decision. But again, do we really want our new rookie head coach to have that kind of firestorm of a QB controversy right away?

Basically, so long as we learn from the Darnold debacle, I will be happy. If we start the No. 2 pick in Week 1, it means we haven't learned a damn thing...despite all new people making these critical decisions.

Which, in the end, would be very typically Jets.

 

I agree with this 100%. Wilson nor Fields are ready to step in and start with the offensive roster as currently constructed. 
 

spare me the argument that we are going to sign Thuney, Robinson, and Godwin also because these unrealistic mocks everyone makes almost never happens.

If we draft one of them at 2 I’m cool with it, but they need to sit behind a vet for a little while. No more Sanchez/Darnold recipes.

[Bobby816]

I think Fields is more pro ready than Wilson. So he could start right away IMO. But Wilson might not be able to start right away. Quite a drastic level of competition difference for him. As well as he hasn’t had the level of coaching as Fields as well. This isn’t me saying Fields is better than Wilson. It’s just that he’s more pro ready IMO.

 

Although if I had to draft a QB at 2 now. I would take Fields over Wilson. And I don’t dislike Wilson (in comparison I HATED mayfield the year we were in need of a QB). I’d be happy with Wilson. I just think Fields is better and is less of a risk.

[xrade]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

 

I think it’s important to not reach on picks at 23 and 34. The value in these spots is on offense

 

I tend to agree. IMO, there are only three CB’s worthy of a FRP and they will be long gone by 23. I also agree that there is not a worthy EDGE at 23. But what about OLB?  We do not talk much about them. My guess is because before we knew we were transitioning to a 4-3, we thought we were OK there or would be after FA. But OLB at 23 is a reasonable possibility. Does anyone have some opinions on OLB at 23?  I do not. 

Since I do not believe we will pick a RB or WR at 23, we could also look at iOL. There will be several that are worthy:  Davis and Dickerson (if they are medically cleared), Humphrey, Myers, Smith.

However, unless someone falls, a trade down into round 2 is a possibility. With 2 picks in the second, we could target WR, CB, iOL, maybe EDGE, DE. Better value.

[KingOfNewYork]

31 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I think Fields is more pro ready than Wilson.

Why?

[xrade]

57 minutes ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

would be OK with drafting a QB at No. 2 if he does not start Week 1. However, there would be too much pressure from the media for him NOT to start, and that is where the problems start.

I am right there with you. I believe all QB’s should sit and learn before being thrust into the game. How long depends on how quickly he develops. Geno was supposed to sit but then that inexplicable determination to play him in the 4th Q of a preseason game ended that idea.

I would not mind resigning Flacco and have him start until the rookie is ready. It will depend on JD and Saleh, though. Some coaches believe game play is the best learning tool. As for the media, JD does not strike me as someone who will bow to media pressure. Same for Saleh.

[Bobby816]

21 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Why?

His level of competition has been better. He’s been doing it at a high level for 2 years. And has had better coaching.

[Bobby816]

37 minutes ago, xrade said:

I tend to agree. IMO, there are only three CB’s worthy of a FRP and they will be long gone by 23. I also agree that there is not a worthy EDGE at 23. But what about OLB?  We do not talk much about them. My guess is because before we knew we were transitioning to a 4-3, we thought we were OK there or would be after FA. But OLB at 23 is a reasonable possibility. Does anyone have some opinions on OLB at 23?  I do not. 

Since I do not believe we will pick a RB or WR at 23, we could also look at iOL. There will be several that are worthy:  Davis and Dickerson (if they are medically cleared), Humphrey, Myers, Smith.

However, unless someone falls, a trade down into round 2 is a possibility. With 2 picks in the second, we could target WR, CB, iOL, maybe EDGE, DE. Better value.

I don’t think LB is worth spending high picks on. Much like most don’t like spending high picks on RB. I pretty much feel this way with LB unless it’s a guy like Parsons who can change a game. I think you can get good LBs in mid rounds. I’m also not as down on our LB crew as most as well. I think we bring back a couple guys that are good depth. And draft a guy in the mid rounds.

 

Ideally though for me we target OL, RB and WR with valuable picks. It all depends how FA goes. We resign Elf and sign Thuney. Then cross OG off for me early in the draft. We sign a legit WR as our 1. Then cross WR off that list.

[mattmanz91]

3 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Did you not read my post? Where’s the stats of the other QBs with little talent around them? The ones I mentioned all had good seasons as well. But are all “conveniently” left off this chart. Find that odd? I don’t. Bc it would show that Wilson was about on par with those guys. And if you love Wilson like this guy who did the chart does... it wouldn’t show it as much. It would show other smaller school QBs were nearly as good as him with not good talent. 

Yes, I read it.

Maybe the other QBs you mentioned would be similar. I don't know, I didn't make the chart but that's not the point of the chart. The chart shows that Wilson played at a higher level against teams with talent that is equal to or better than the talent he has around him. Fields and Lawrence didn't play as well against equal to or lesser talent while also havimg equal to or better talent on their own teams. 

The reason Wilson stands out among QBs with similar stats is his skill set. The kid is special. He goes through progressions quickly, reads the defense, feels pressure well, has a quick release, scrambles to extend plays while keeping his eyes down field. He has the highest rating in PFF history on tight window throws. I don't care what college he played for and the talent level. The tape shows a special player who has the potential to be as good as Mahomes. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by mattmanz91

[KingOfNewYork]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

His level of competition has been better. He’s been doing it at a high level for 2 years. And has had better coaching.

Level of competition isn't an indictment on whether or not someone can play right away. Wentz came from 1-AA and played.

He's been playing with better players for two years, has faced minimal adversity during his college career. What happens when he goes to a team that isn't more talented than every opponent. 

One thing I noticed about Fields is his eyes aren't great when it comes to misdirection and moving guys. I think he sees the field well enough to make the throws he needs to but I never see him freezing Safety or forcing a LB to bite down and open up the seams. 

The issue with the film for any prospect is that most of them dont run the offenses they're going to run in the pros, I think thats why Wilson has gained so much traction at 2 because we've seen him excel with the concepts our new offense will apply. 

[KingOfNewYork]

19 minutes ago, mattmanz91 said:

Yes, I read it.

Maybe the other QBs you mentioned would be similar. I don't know, I didn't make the chart but that's not the point of the chart. The chart shows that Wilson played at a higher level against teams with talent that is equal to or better than the talent he has around him. Fields and Lawrence didn't play as well against equal to or lesser talent while also havimg equal to or better talent on their own teams. 

The reason Wilson stands out among QBs with similar stats is his skill set. The kid is special. He goes through progressions quickly, reads the defense, feels pressure well, has a quick release, scrambles to extend plays while keeping his eyes down field. He has the highest rating in PFF history on tight window throws. I don't care what college he played for and the talent level. The tape shows a special player who has the potential to be as good as Mahomes. 

I think the key is throwing the stats out the window and just seeing the things they can do on the field. Wilson is special as is Fields but in different ways. 

With Wilson the arm talent(strength and quickness of the release), ability to throw from different angles, his eyes, mobility and he's shown he can work through progressions. If he puts it all together as a pro he's going to be very good for a very long time. 

[xrade]

I would happy with either, but I do lean towards Wilson more. The way I approach it, is what if they switched teams? I think Wilson could very well be talked about as the first pick over Lawrence. Some hacks are already doing that. I think OSU with Wilson would be better than OSU with Fields. Conversely, BYU would not have been as good with Fields vs. Wilson.  In essence, that is what the chart is suggesting. 

[xrade]

With the BS talk of Wilson being viewed as better than Lawrence, what does everyone think as far as Wilson going #1?  Personally, I think the odds of that happening are 2%. 1% because I rarely deal in absolutes and 1% because Jax has Meyers and he may be a wild card. 

[Bobby816]

1 hour ago, KingOfNewYork said:

I think the key is throwing the stats out the window and just seeing the things they can do on the field. Wilson is special as is Fields but in different ways. 

With Wilson the arm talent(strength and quickness of the release), ability to throw from different angles, his eyes, mobility and he's shown he can work through progressions. If he puts it all together as a pro he's going to be very good for a very long time. 

Or he could be the QB from his 2 previous years in college. When has Fields really ever just looked bad for any stretch in his life?