2021 Draft Thread

[mattmanz91]

18 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

People refuse to see the progression Wilson made. Like the kid got better and it’s right in their faces. 

This fan base would have taken Joe Burrow last year and he was literally a 1 year wonder who couldn’t beat out terrible tOSU Quarterbacks. 

They also would have not wanted Justin Herbert because he took a step back his senior season.

Also Zach is a better prospect than Sam. Quicker release, stronger arm, better accuracy, especially on the deep ball. He goes through his progressions faster, shows the ability to read the defense and move defenders off the ball with his eyes. Sam and Zach have the ability to make off script, off platform throws but Zach is still better at it and more accurate while doing so.

Also, I hate the "we should trade down and build the team first" argument. If we trade Sam for a 2nd rounder we still have 5 picks in the top 100 after drafting Wilson. That's plenty to fill out remaining glaring holes especially since we still have guys from last year's draft that will be competing for a job and could take a step forward. 

Zach Wilson

Becton-Clark/draft pick-McGovern-draft pick-Fant

Perine-Coleman-Smith- 4th rounder (Gainwell I hope, I'm high on him)

Davis-Crowder-Mims-Cole-Herndon-draft pick (Moore/Toney?)

If that's how things fall I'm very happy with that and it still leaves two picks in the top 100 to potentially land starters or contributors on defense where we have holes. 

The cherry on top is LaFleur's system should be more QB friendly than Gases which should only help the entire offense. 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by mattmanz91

[KingOfNewYork]

1 minute ago, mattmanz91 said:

Also Zach is a better prospect than Sam. Quicker release, stronger arm, better accuracy, especially on the deep ball. He goes through his progressions faster, shows the ability to read the defense and move defenders off the ball with his eyes. Sam and Zach have ability to make off script, off platform throws bit Zach is still better at it and more accurate while doing so.

Also, I hate the "we should trade down and build the team first" argument. If we trade Sam for a 2nd rounder we still have 5 picks in the top 100 after drafting Wilson. That's plenty to fill out remaining glaring holes especially since we still have guys from last year's draft that will be competing for a job and could take a step forward. 

Zach Wilson

Becton-Clark/draft pick-McGovern-draft pick-Fant

Perine-Coleman-Smith- 4th rounder (Gainwell I hope, I'm high on him)

Davis-Crowder-Mims-Cole-Herndon-draft pick (Moore/Toney?)

If that's how things fall I'm very happy with that and it still leaves two picks in the top 100 to potentially land starters or contributors on defense where we have holes. 

The cherry on top is LaFleur's system should be more QB friendly than Gases which should only help the entire offense. 

 

 

Exactly and it’s only year 1 of this journey. The Bills didn’t breakthrough until year 3, Miami is entering year 3 now, Patriots are a question mark. 

We don’t have to be great this year or even next year but we have to begin making strides. Hopefully 2023 the pieces are in place to make that run. 

[xrade]

28 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

This whole narrative that it’s 100% Sams fault is overblown

Name one person on this site that said it was 100% on Sam. All of us know the crappy situation he was in.  So please stop with we blame Sam for everything fallacy. I could easily blame some for thinking Sam was 0% at fault but I don’t think anyone one this site believes that either.

I will ask the question again that if Sam was in the draft this year and we needed to draft a QB, would you draft Sam at 2 over Wilson?

38 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Theres one argument and one argument alone on why so many want Wilson. And that’s Bc you like him and it’s good to restart the QB salary clock. Anything besides that is trash.

 

The QB salary clock is secondary.  I like the kids talent from what I have seen first and foremost. I can’t speak for others but if the cap becomes more important than talent then you have an Idzik. I don’t fault anyone for liking Sam to see if he can be salvaged with a new O and weapons. I don’t think it is the right choice but I would never call that thinking trash. 

[KingOfNewYork]

13 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Joe burrow had the best college season ever in the best conference in football. There’s quite a difference.

As I’ve said if we draft Wilson I’ll be a huge fan. But this narrative that he’s incredible is overblown right now. Darnold was an incredible prospect with his only flaw being fumbles. Which he hasn’t struggled with. So let’s look at more realistically 

Mac Jones just had a similar season, would you pick him?

You comparing these players on a 1 to 1 basis. They’re all different. You’re placing Sam’s struggles transition from college to pros on Zach.

If Wilson busts he’s not going to bust because “Sam was an incredible prospect” or “He couldn’t beat Coastal Carolina” or “Look at his competition” because other incredible prospects thrived, prospects who beat Coastal Carolina thrived, prospects who played against non-NFL players thrived.

Where Wilson stands today is incredible and that’s something no one can disagree with. He took huge strides after getting healthy and the hope is he can take even more. He isn’t a flawless prospect but the pros far outweighs the cons.

[Bobby816]

Just now, KingOfNewYork said:

Mac Jones just had a similar season, would you pick him?

You comparing these players on a 1 to 1 basis. They’re all different. You’re placing Sam’s struggles transition from college to pros on Zach.

If Wilson busts he’s not going to bust because “Sam was an incredible prospect” or “He couldn’t beat Coastal Carolina” or “Look at his competition” because other incredible prospects thrived, prospects who beat Coastal Carolina thrived, prospects who played against non-NFL players thrived.

Where Wilson stands today is incredible and that’s something no one can disagree with. He took huge strides after getting healthy and the hope is he can take even more. He isn’t a flawless prospect but the pros far outweighs the cons.

Yes I actually really like Mac Jones in this class and have no clue why some have him rated so low. So that angle isn’t going to work with me.

[KingOfNewYork]

5 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Yes I actually really like Mac Jones in this class and have no clue why some have him rated so low. So that angle isn’t going to work with me.

At #2, you wouldn't draft him at #2

[Dr.O]

4 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Yes I actually really like Mac Jones in this class and have no clue why some have him rated so low. So that angle isn’t going to work with me.

Cause of the amount of talent around him, lack of athleticism, and only 1 year of playing time

[Bobby816]

13 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

At #2, you wouldn't draft him at #2

You guys are missing the point. I don’t think any QB outside of TLaw is a can’t miss. So throw Wilson, Jones and Fields in the same boat for me. And my argument is that it doesn’t matter who’s QB for us if we don’t make what’s around the QB better. Using the 2nd pick on a Qab obviously doesn’t allow us to get a top talent elsewhere. Where we could trade back and possibly get a haul for that 2nd pick and still add a top talent on the OL or at WR early and use other picks on other things to help a QB.

 

My point being... I don’t see Wilson better than Darnold as a prospect. IMO it’s people just wanting change. Where I’d rather see change elsewhere on the roster and see what we already have with Darnold with that new talent group and coaching. Rather than using the 2nd pick on a QB and still not having good OG play, no one at RB and WR less than impressive.

[KingOfNewYork]

8 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

You guys are missing the point. I don’t think any QB outside of TLaw is a can’t miss. So throw Wilson, Jones and Fields in the same boat for me. And my argument is that it doesn’t matter who’s QB for us if we don’t make what’s around the QB better. Using the 2nd pick on a Qab obviously doesn’t allow us to get a top talent elsewhere. Where we could trade back and possibly get a haul for that 2nd pick and still add a top talent on the OL or at WR early and use other picks on other things to help a QB.

 

My point being... I don’t see Wilson better than Darnold as a prospect. IMO it’s people just wanting change. Where I’d rather see change elsewhere on the roster and see what we already have with Darnold with that new talent group and coaching. Rather than using the 2nd pick on a QB and still not having good OG play, no one at RB and WR less than impressive.

We know what we have in Darnold at this point. 

We have draft picks to add Guards and talent elsewhere

Running Back isn't difficult to fill as long as the OL is good so back to that point. 

Our WR core is really good on paper. Davis is good and fits the offense, Crowder is one of the best slot receivers and can make plays in different areas, Mims is young guy with size, speed and the ability to catch in traffic and Cole can play all 2 spots and has shown he's effective as well. TE is the only question mark in terms of skill guys. 

[Dr.O]

Yeah on paper we actually do have a nice WR Core, liked to add a rookie to that group but Davis, Mims, Crowder, Cole, Vyn Smith, Rookie, Berrios is a really solid group. All eyes need to be on that OL and CB group

[Bobby816]

4 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

We know what we have in Darnold at this point. 

We have draft picks to add Guards and talent elsewhere

Running Back isn't difficult to fill as long as the OL is good so back to that point. 

Our WR core is really good on paper. Davis is good and fits the offense, Crowder is one of the best slot receivers and can make plays in different areas, Mims is young guy with size, speed and the ability to catch in traffic and Cole can play all 2 spots and has shown he's effective as well. TE is the only question mark in terms of skill guys. 

1. We don’t. He’s never been given talent or good coaching.

2. This is a guess. We very easily could go edge and CB at 23 and 34. We getting guys in Round 3 or later that are great starters at OG? Even if we did go OG at those picks it’s no guarantee they’ll start.

3. Our RB room right now is awful. It needs help big time.

4. Our 1-5 WRs are better than they’ve been in years past. Yes I will say that. But it’s a lot of question marks. Davis I like. But he’s not a year in year out performer. He carries consistency issues. Mims is like as well. But didn’t do enough to slate him into that for sure starter for us. Crowder is our only proven WR. Cole is a good #4 but offers little to excite you. And Doctson has upside as the 5th guy probably. Then there’s a bunch of guys that shouldn’t even be on the roster in the Smiths. Berrios is fine. But I could take him or leave him.

 

My point being... Wilson if drafted is getting better coaching and a better WR group. After that it’s not much. So he’s getting out in a better situation immediately better than Darnold. Darnold was never given anything close to this. The staff and weapons are better than what he ever had in 3 years.

[Jag68Sid87]

If the plan is to not take phone calls on No. 2 and just draft Wilson (even before all the top QB prospects have their own pro days, I might add), and then take whatever you get for Darnold, all we are doing is hoping this new guy can save the franchise instead of the old guy. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

People are trying to tell me that just because Zach Wilson would be picked second, that he would not automatically start Week 1. Give me a break. If they are not taking offers for No. 2, this is their guy. They are going to take him, start him without any competition (just like Darnold) and Week 1 he is the guy...just like Darnold was. 

I swear, this organization is never ever going to figure it out. 

And then of course, many of you are going to start complaining that Wilson has not been given a fair shake, that he is getting murdered out there because the offensive line sucks, that he has no running game to support him, etc. 

 

The good news is I don't think it is etched in stone that WE are taking Wilson second overall. Oh he might be the consensus No. 2 pick now, but that does not mean we have to take him. Far from it. I still maintain that the regime will look at the entirety of the roster and realize we need a lot more help elsewhere. 

Do they want to win, or do they want headlines? Because Wilson is a headline grabber, nothing more. Just like Sam Darnold was four years ago.

[SDotNova]

1 hour ago, mattmanz91 said:

Also Zach is a better prospect than Sam. Quicker release, stronger arm, better accuracy, especially on the deep ball. He goes through his progressions faster, shows the ability to read the defense and move defenders off the ball with his eyes. Sam and Zach have the ability to make off script, off platform throws but Zach is still better at it and more accurate while doing so.

 

Pretty sums it up. Darnold and Wilson are similar types of players. It’s just that Zach Wilson does pretty much everything better than Darnold. And in the case of throwing the ball deep, Wilson is a lot better.

Im pumped about Wilson. We’re lucky to be in position to draft him.

Feel bad for Darnold. Macc did him dirty. I think he’ll prove to be good as long as he goes to a good situation. Hoping he goes to Denver.

 The only question is what do we get in return. Denver 2nd sounds good to me.

Edited March 27, 2021 by SDotNova

[Jag68Sid87]

Just now, SDotNova said:

Pretty sums it up. Darnold and Wilson are similar types of players. It’s just that Zach Wilson does pretty much everything better than Darnold. And in the case of throwing the ball deep, Wilson is a lot better.

Im pumped about Wilson. We’re lucky to be in position to draft him.

Feel bad for Darnold. Macc did him dirty. I think he’ll prove to be good as long as he goes to a good situation. Hoping he goes to Denver. 

This is nonsense. We don't know anything about this guy, other than he can put on a show without pads on and in a controlled environment.

None of that describes the game of football, the National Football League or New York City.

 

[SDotNova]

5 minutes ago, Jag68Sid87 said:

This is nonsense. We don't know anything about this guy, other than he can put on a show without pads on and in a controlled environment.

None of that describes the game of football, the National Football League or New York City.

 

He does the same thing in games. So he’s definitely not just a guy who’s just good in shorts.

Edited March 27, 2021 by SDotNova