2021 Draft Thread

[Bobby816]

1 hour ago, NJC33 said:

I'd be shocked if we don't come away with a starting guard in the draft -- the new scheme should help a lot, but Douglas isn't trotting out the same group he did last season. Would expect GVR/Clark to battle it out at LG and a rookie to slide in at RG. 

Clark 'redshirting' last season garners way more attention than it should on here. 'Building through the draft', doesn't necessarily equate to instant gratification, by way of immediate production. The idea is to draft in hope of facilitating that next man up mentality when the time is right. Circumstances dictated a bigger role for Hall/Davis last season, but that wasn't exactly by design given the state of our roster when the picks were made.

... I think we'd all appreciate Jetskiids insight this time of year, lol.

I can see that. And I sure do hope Clarke can win a spot. Just hard to think it will happen with him not even taking a snap last year. But hopefully he’s healthy and ready to compete this offseason.

 

jetskiid was very knowledgeable. Just had no clue how to talk to people without talking down to them. Webmaster had enough of him as well as me. So he’s banned. And Bc he can’t seem to control himself. Every time he tries to make

a new account it’s so easy to detect him Bc he immediately almost starts his same ways. So I don’t think he has a future on this forum unless he has a personality change. 

[KimuraGod]

- just watch and rejoice boys!! 
 

Quick questions; 

*Will Wilson pick #1 like in college? Is is too early to order the jersey? 
*Will we be interested in Dax Milne with a late round pick? 

[Bobby816]

5 hours ago, xenajets said:

- just watch and rejoice boys!! 
 

Quick questions; 

*Will Wilson pick #1 like in college? Is is too early to order the jersey? 
*Will we be interested in Dax Milne with a late round pick? 

I do think he will be #1

Wait... I thought he had poor players around him?

But seriously the argument some of you have had that he's gone against weak players and have said he had weak players around him is poor. I think his OL graded out as the best OL in the nation (this is my biggest worry with him). And Mline is no scrub. So I never understood the defense in saying what he was playing with was poor, in an answer to how bad the competition he played against.

[xrade]

59 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I think his OL graded out as the best OL in the nation (this is my biggest worry with him

It ranked high up there. But here is where the lower level competition comes in. How do you think the BYU OL would fare against an SEC opponent?  How much of the BYU OL’s success is due to Zack’s ability to avoid the pressure?  Let’s be real, a good OL will make any QB look better and vice versa.  Hence all of our desire to fix ours.  OSU’s OL was pretty damn good as well.  Probably better than BYU’s OL but may have graded out a little lower because they played a stronger schedule.

I am one to claim the competition he played against us somewhat negated by the talent around him. I reality, that is all secondary when evaluating a QB, IMO. Zack made the guys around him better. He made passes into tight windows or placed the ball where only his guy could get it. All that had nothing to do with the talent of the opponent or his teammate. If a WR is covered, it does not matter how good the CB is covering him, the WR is covered. Period. If the QB can fit that throw into that tight window, that is talent. 

[Bobby816]

24 minutes ago, xrade said:

It ranked high up there. But here is where the lower level competition comes in. How do you think the BYU OL would fare against an SEC opponent?  How much of the BYU OL’s success is due to Zack’s ability to avoid the pressure?  Let’s be real, a good OL will make any QB look better and vice versa.  Hence all of our desire to fix ours.  OSU’s OL was pretty damn good as well.  Probably better than BYU’s OL but may have graded out a little lower because they played a stronger schedule.

I am one to claim the competition he played against us somewhat negated by the talent around him. I reality, that is all secondary when evaluating a QB, IMO. Zack made the guys around him better. He made passes into tight windows or placed the ball where only his guy could get it. All that had nothing to do with the talent of the opponent or his teammate. If a WR is covered, it does not matter how good the CB is covering him, the WR is covered. Period. If the QB can fit that throw into that tight window, that is talent. 

I’m not saying he’s not good. I’m on board with drafting him. My pint is merely that what he was working with was superior to every team he played. Even if you eliminate him from the picture. His OL and WRs were superior to the DL and secondary of every team they played. 

[xrade]

7 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I’m not saying he’s not good. I’m on board with drafting him. My pint is merely that what he was working with was superior to every team he played. Even if you eliminate him from the picture. His OL and WRs were superior to the DL and secondary of every team they played. 

OL I agree with. WR I am not so sure.  Look at that clip above. I would not say in the majority or those plays the WR was wide open. Those were just really good throws and catches. Milne is probably a late day pick. IIRC, he is not exactly the fastest out there. 

[ekill08x]

On 4/7/2021 at 8:07 AM, JetsandI said:

6 picks in first 107.  Isn't that enough?

NEVER enough!

[Bobby816]

Just now, xrade said:

OL I agree with. WR I am not so sure.  Look at that clip above. I would not say in the majority or those plays the WR was wide open. Those were just really good throws and catches. Milne is probably a late day pick. IIRC, he is not exactly the fastest out there. 

I'm not saying that Mline, Romney and Pau'u are great players. But bc of who they were playing against... they were always superior to who was across from them. 50/50 balls weren't that with them out there bc they had the advantage skill wise.

My point being that the narrative that the argument that BYU played no one and that shouldn't be brought up bc Wilson had no one is just plain false. His team was more talented without him on offense than every defense he played.

[JetsandI]

23 minutes ago, ekill08x said:

NEVER enough!

[KingOfNewYork]

33 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I'm not saying that Mline, Romney and Pau'u are great players. But bc of who they were playing against... they were always superior to who was across from them. 50/50 balls weren't that with them out there bc they had the advantage skill wise.

My point being that the narrative that the argument that BYU played no one and that shouldn't be brought up bc Wilson had no one is just plain false. His team was more talented without him on offense than every defense he played.

Has that really been a narrative? I think the main point has been it doesn't matter when evaluating his talent. 

Example, if he makes a great throw to Milne who drops it its still a great throw regardless of the outcome. 

[xrade]

32 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

His team was more talented without him on offense than every defense he played.

Perhaps. But if you put a lesser QB in there, would the team be as successful?  Probably not. You could argue this point about every talented draft prospect on a winning program. Would OSU or Clemson or Bama be as good without their QB’s?  No, but they would still be good because of their superior talent all over the field.

[JetsandI]

1 hour ago, xrade said:

It ranked high up there. But here is where the lower level competition comes in. How do you think the BYU OL would fare against an SEC opponent?  How much of the BYU OL’s success is due to Zack’s ability to avoid the pressure?  Let’s be real, a good OL will make any QB look better and vice versa.  Hence all of our desire to fix ours.  OSU’s OL was pretty damn good as well.  Probably better than BYU’s OL but may have graded out a little lower because they played a stronger schedule.

I am one to claim the competition he played against us somewhat negated by the talent around him. I reality, that is all secondary when evaluating a QB, IMO. Zack made the guys around him better. He made passes into tight windows or placed the ball where only his guy could get it. All that had nothing to do with the talent of the opponent or his teammate. If a WR is covered, it does not matter how good the CB is covering him, the WR is covered. Period. If the QB can fit that throw into that tight window, that is talent. 

non Tides SEC teams could give them a fit. 

His arm talents are absolutely not in the question.  His response to "real deal" under pressure is but all NCAA qbs are dealing the same anyway.

I remember one of reasons why Jared Goff got the edge over Carson Wentz and it was a successful percentage in under pressure.   Goff in Pac 10?  Wentz in FCS?    They counted.

[xrade]

7 minutes ago, JetsandI said:

His arm talents are absolutely not in the question.  His response to "real deal" under pressure is but all NCAA qbs are dealing the same anyway

I have always maintained that to get a better evaluation of any prospect (or any person for that matter) look at how they deal with pressure and adversity. The only game you need to evaluate Wilson is against CC. He was not stellar but not the reason they lost. His 68.3 QBR is about what I would expect in year one of the NFL. That would put him right around average and in the middle of the pack. What makes me want Zach is that his natural ability as a thrower, his accuracy, and his off platform ability makes him a QB that will get better year to year. 

[KingOfNewYork]

22 minutes ago, xrade said:

I have always maintained that to get a better evaluation of any prospect (or any person for that matter) look at how they deal with pressure and adversity. The only game you need to evaluate Wilson is against CC. He was not stellar but not the reason they lost. His 68.3 QBR is about what I would expect in year one of the NFL. That would put him right around average and in the middle of the pack. What makes me want Zach is that his natural ability as a thrower, his accuracy, and his off platform ability makes him a QB that will get better year to year. 

Especially as he gets more comfortable but the offense should help especially with the emphasis on the run game and play action passing. 

[Bobby816]

2 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Has that really been a narrative? I think the main point has been it doesn't matter when evaluating his talent. 

Example, if he makes a great throw to Milne who drops it its still a great throw regardless of the outcome. 

No question it’s the player you still have to grade. But let’s be real... if he doesn’t put up the stats he did this last year is he the 2nd pick? And does his WRs easily winning jump balls not help with those inflated stats?

So while a lot of what he does is great regardless of competition and teammates. I think it is time to point out things he needs to work on. Not just talk about him like he’s a star.

The kid had a great OL... so how will he do under pressure in the NFL with our OL (even if improved).

He rushes when under pressure. This is big for me. Bc he does show this when under pressure. And Bc he wants under it a ton. It didn’t affect him much. In the NFL he will get rattled.

He goes through his reads too quick. He left a lot of wide open WRs wide open Bc he rushed and threw into tight coverage instead of going to the next progression.

He sometimes is late with his throws. He got away with this a lot at BYU Bc of poor defenses. He wouldn’t hit a slant for example on time. And would wait for the WR to be open 5yds later and then throw. In the NFL, that doesn’t work.

 

My summary is I like him and will be a huge fan of his. But can we please not a act like he’s polished. He will struggle IMO with game speed and pressure. Doesn’t mean he won’t succeed. Bc I think he will. But he will have a rough start if you ask me.