2021 Draft Thread

[Rockice_8]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

So don't add talent in their prime bc we aren't a team that's winning? Great logic. Lets also keep in mind that these moves would have been made before the season. Where I don't think anyone in our FO would've thought we'd be this bad. So they would've been adding talent to a team that they thought was at least competitive. 

 

Your logic is pretty much saying only add talent via draft. Bc there's no sense of paying guys bc we aren't a good team.

 

YOU"RE GOING TO BE IN FOR A RUDE AWAKENING SIR

Bc we have like 90mill we will have to spend next year in FA and in the trade market. 

It was pretty obvious that trading for Yannick which is who I assume you wanted to trade for was a terrible idea.  Is was obvious then and is even more clear now.  Trading for talent is not what teams in our position do especially when it's market value like Yannick.

I don't think it's really that hard to comprehend.  I mean could you imagine how awful a trade that would have been.  Lose our 2nd and have to shell out 20M to keep him.  Just awful.

 

[jetfuel34]

Man the more I watch Trevor Lawrence the more I want him on the Jets. I am really hoping we keep Gase for most of the season to get more loses. I don't care if we go 0-16. T Law is a once in a generation type QB. He is a big guy that is great at running and throwing the football. He has great football IQ and has played on the big stage for several years. He also has been improving for years. There are all kinds of experts that are saying he is the best prospect since Luck or even Elway. I put him equal to or even higher than Luck. I think he is closer to Elway prospect than Luck. I never get excited about QB coming out. I was excited to get Darnold because he was the best QB prospect we had in my 37 years as a jet fan. If we get the #1 pick you don't trade it for nothing you make the pick. Then you start to build around him and start this team all over again. If you have the right HC this team can turn around quick. 

The rumors of Q going for a second is a bunch of BS. I saw reports saying Adams was going for a first and we got 2 first for him plus other picks. If Q is moved it will be for a first round pick and plus. JD will not sell low on this. 

[Bobby816]

25 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

It was pretty obvious that trading for Yannick which is who I assume you wanted to trade for was a terrible idea.  Is was obvious then and is even more clear now.  Trading for talent is not what teams in our position do especially when it's market value like Yannick.

I don't think it's really that hard to comprehend.  I mean could you imagine how awful a trade that would have been.  Lose our 2nd and have to shell out 20M to keep him.  Just awful.

 

No, you assumed wrong. I am talking more in a general way. Was our pass rush good last year? No. So why would JD think that having Basham and Jenkins as our starters AGAIN would make that change? So I stand by my point. He didn't do enough at edge. Zuniga has yet to hit the field and we have guys off the street looking better than our starters in Huff and Franklin-Myers. But adding a mid rounder hasn't helped and to expect double digit sacks from UDFA is a HUGE reach.

[xrade]

59 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

No, you assumed wrong. I am talking more in a general way. Was our pass rush good last year? No. So why would JD think that having Basham and Jenkins as our starters AGAIN would make that change? So I stand by my point. He didn't do enough at edge. Zuniga has yet to hit the field and we have guys off the street looking better than our starters in Huff and Franklin-Myers. But adding a mid rounder hasn't helped and to expect double digit sacks from UDFA is a HUGE reach.

So who should JD have signed?  Huff, Jenkins, and JFM do not meet your criteria.  YN was a poor assumption, apparently.  But you do not say who JD should have signed at EDGE?

And lets talk about Jenkins.  He had 7 sacks in 2018 and 8 in 2019.  He signed a one year deal for $5M.  He was never a pass rush specialist when drafted.  He was more of an edge setter and yet his stats over the last couple of years indicate he is not far off from  Clowney (9 in 2018, 3 in 2019) and YN (9.5 in 2018, 8 in 2019).  Sacks are certainly not the be-all, end-all stat for an EDGE but it does offer some insight.  Would you rather have Clowney or YN for $20M or Jenkins for $5M on a crap team?

So who should JD have signed at EDGE?

[Colt45fool]

The "Robby Anderson would be bad in this offense" is a horrible defense.

If the coach cant figure out how to use talent, fire the coach. If the coach wants a 37 year old RB during rebuild and wants to give snaps to said RB over a rookie and an all pro talent, fire the coach. 

This is simple. JD is not exonerated because Gase cant get the best out of players.

[Bobby816]

I'll just go down a top 10 Edge FA list and show you.

 

1. Shaq Barrett (tagged): Tons of tagged Edge rushers have been traded recently. Something we maybe looked into, but I dont think JD did.

2. Jadeveon Clowney: I agree that he isn't your 10+ sack guy. But we need talent and money matters to him. We cant get guys that want to win. We unfortunately have to go after players that value money. He should've been looked into more than what I think JD did.

3. Yannik Ngakaoue (tagged): Yes I would have made a trade for him. Lets look at things realistically. MIN 2nd is about the same value at the time of the trade as to what JAX viewed our 3rd rounder. So maybe the 5th round kicker they threw in we throw in too and bc the picks offset. We pretty much get an Edge rusher in his prime. Yes we have to pay. But we have money and he is at a prime position. Yes there's risk of losing him in FA, but I think money would talk and convincing of a rebuild would only have helped. Let's also not just kick to the side that the guy has 5 sacks and  2 FF in 5 games this year. So he's averaging a sack a game. So I don't want to hear he's not worth top edge money.

4. Bud Dupree (tagged): Don't think Pitt had any desire to listen to offers for him being this is Big Bens last year probably, so they are in win now mode. But you can bet I think we go hard after him in FA this next year.

5. Dante Fowler Jr: A guy we hands down should've thrown a bunch of money at if you ask me. Young guy with a great skill set. ATL is in cap issues and he's underperforming, so he might be moved before next season starts.

6. Matt Judon (tagged): This was a guy I thought JD might trade for being he had some BAL ties. But I think they maybe didn't want to trade him for the same reason Pitt didn't Dupree. They're in win now mode and not trying to get picks, they want wins. I'd venture to guess that JD at least called about Judon if I had to guess.

7. Robert Quinn: Vet guy that still performs. Not as high on him bc of his age and he wouldn't fit our long term plans like the other guys. But he for sure would've been an upgrade for us at Edge.

8. JPP: Same a sQuinn

9. Shaq Lawson: Another guy I would've liked to see us make a run at.

10. Vic Beasley: Similar situation for me as Fowler Jr. Wanted us to get him as well.

[Rockice_8]

46 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

No, you assumed wrong. I am talking more in a general way. Was our pass rush good last year? No. So why would JD think that having Basham and Jenkins as our starters AGAIN would make that change? So I stand by my point. He didn't do enough at edge. Zuniga has yet to hit the field and we have guys off the street looking better than our starters in Huff and Franklin-Myers. But adding a mid rounder hasn't helped and to expect double digit sacks from UDFA is a HUGE reach.

Until you have a foundation FA should be reserved for young guys on value contracts who you hope can break out.  Big FA contracts rarely work out especially for bad teams looking for a quick fix.

JD couldn't fix ever position in one offseason.  He prioritized the OL which looks like we have some long term pieces at LT, RT, and C now.  We need to continue the youth movement, purge the bad contracts of Mosley, dead money for Bell, and cut old dead weight like Anderson.

Get the young QB in here, move on from Sam (hopefully get a 2 for him), continue to rebuild the OL and add weapons to Mims, Herndon, and Perine, and for the love of God find HC who is a leader and brings a progressive modern day offense.

The defense should continue to add speed on all levels who are young and hungry.  Let's focus on the draft specifically offense to help Lawrence hopefully and go the cheap FA route defensively for break young young guys.

I really think JD has this approach and honestly it's refreshing to see.  As dark as things are now we have a plan for the future for sustainable success.

 

[Rockice_8]

40 minutes ago, xrade said:

So who should JD have signed?  Huff, Jenkins, and JFM do not meet your criteria.  YN was a poor assumption, apparently.  But you do not say who JD should have signed at EDGE?

And lets talk about Jenkins.  He had 7 sacks in 2018 and 8 in 2019.  He signed a one year deal for $5M.  He was never a pass rush specialist when drafted.  He was more of an edge setter and yet his stats over the last couple of years indicate he is not far off from  Clowney (9 in 2018, 3 in 2019) and YN (9.5 in 2018, 8 in 2019).  Sacks are certainly not the be-all, end-all stat for an EDGE but it does offer some insight.  Would you rather have Clowney or YN for $20M or Jenkins for $5M on a crap team?

So who should JD have signed at EDGE?

He was banging the table for Yannick in the offseason don't let him kid you.

It would have been a disaster of a trade and set us back even further.  We had no business signing clowney either.  We did the exact right thing.  We signed guys like JFM and Huff who both look like steals this far who are young cheap and controllable.

[Bobby816]

2 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Until you have a foundation FA should be reserved for young guys on value contracts who you hope can break out.  Big FA contracts rarely work out especially for bad teams looking for a quick fix.

JD couldn't fix ever position in one offseason.  He prioritized the OL which looks like we have some long term pieces at LT, RT, and C now.  We need to continue the youth movement, purge the bad contracts of Mosley, dead money for Bell, and cut old dead weight like Anderson.

Get the young QB in here, move on from Sam (hopefully get a 2 for him), continue to rebuild the OL and add weapons to Mims, Herndon, and Perine, and for the love of God find HC who is a leader and brings a progressive modern day offense.

The defense should continue to add speed on all levels who are young and hungry.  Let's focus on the draft specifically offense to help Lawrence hopefully and go the cheap FA route defensively for break young young guys.

I really think JD has this approach and honestly it's refreshing to see.  As dark as things are now we have a plan for the future for sustainable success.

 

Agree with nearly everything you're saying... but we have around 90mill in cap space. That money has to be used somewhere. Cant all be used on "value contracts"

We've spent WAY too long looking for value instead of legit talent. Go get good players, not value players.

[doumeyer]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

Agree with nearly everything you're saying... but we have around 90mill in cap space. That money has to be used somewhere. Cant all be used on "value contracts"

We've spent WAY too long looking for value instead of legit talent. Go get good players, not value players.

How did we get up to 90 million dollars so fast that is great

[Bobby816]

13 minutes ago, doumeyer said:

How did we get up to 90 million dollars so fast that is great

When you don’t draft good... you don’t have any players making big money. If we make the right cuts... that number could be closer to 100Mill actually.

We will for sure have at least 83mill with just 1 obvious cut in Henry Anderson. I feel Like there other cuts we can make to get us close to that 85-90mill number to rebuild this team.

 

This is the FA year to have money. Bc LOTS of players that normally would get tagged or resigned won’t be able to with nearly 1/3 of the league in an awful cap situation so to Covid with the cap going down. 

[xrade]

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Agree with nearly everything you're saying... but we have around 90mill in cap space. That money has to be used somewhere. Cant all be used on "value contracts"

We've spent WAY too long looking for value instead of legit talent. Go get good players, not value players.

Most us believe JD will do just that.  If you back to my post on Oct. 17 on this thread, I think some or all of the FA or Trade acquisitions are reasonable:  JuJu/ Robinson, Dupree, TE, Thuney/Miller/Lindsley, Lattimore, Gurley,  Marcus Williams etc.  Tell me you wouldn't want to see this happen.  I think we all would.

But the crux of my defense of JD before we kind of went off on a tangent, is that you believe JD should be criticized because he did not address WR, EDGE and RB adequately.  It is true he did not for this year.  But before criticizing him after just one offseason, how about looking into what he did that will put us in position to have a huge turnaround (dare I say 180?) in 2021.  We have cap space to get below market FA's, we have draft capital for trades of good players on cap strapped teams, and we have draft capital in 2021 and 2022 to build through the draft.  JD is setting this team to be a good team for a long time, not just a year or two.  The old way of spending all cap space or at least most of it to remain mediocre has never, ever worked.  Let JD try something different.

With all that said, JD better pull through with some of this next year or I will jump on your bandwagon.

[Rockice_8]

4 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Agree with nearly everything you're saying... but we have around 90mill in cap space. That money has to be used somewhere. Cant all be used on "value contracts"

We've spent WAY too long looking for value instead of legit talent. Go get good players, not value players.

It actually can and should.  We have so many holes to fill so if we use the money wisely we can bring in a ton of upside players and see what sticks.

I'm all for making a splash if it's the right position and player but I'm not sure who that is.  I haven't looked at the FA list yet but I doubt there are any players I'd love to pay top dollar for.  Maybe Thuney would be the one guy because of how important a good OL is for a young QB and he's still only gonna be 28.  You can get 4-5 good years out of a OG so that makes sense.  Maybe A Rob or JuJu but I'm hesitant.  I'd rather draft 2 guys to he honest so they develop with the young QB.

[xrade]

39 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

It actually can and should.  We have so many holes to fill so if we use the money wisely we can bring in a ton of upside players and see what sticks.

I'm all for making a splash if it's the right position and player but I'm not sure who that is.  I haven't looked at the FA list yet but I doubt there are any players I'd love to pay top dollar for.  Maybe Thuney would be the one guy because of how important a good OL is for a young QB and he's still only gonna be 28.  You can get 4-5 good years out of a OG so that makes sense.  Maybe A Rob or JuJu but I'm hesitant.  I'd rather draft 2 guys to he honest so they develop with the young QB.

Add Dupree as a high $ potential FA acquisition. Relatively young and good. Pitt may not be able to resign. EDGE solved. 

[Bobby816]

55 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

It actually can and should.  We have so many holes to fill so if we use the money wisely we can bring in a ton of upside players and see what sticks.

I'm all for making a splash if it's the right position and player but I'm not sure who that is.  I haven't looked at the FA list yet but I doubt there are any players I'd love to pay top dollar for.  Maybe Thuney would be the one guy because of how important a good OL is for a young QB and he's still only gonna be 28.  You can get 4-5 good years out of a OG so that makes sense.  Maybe A Rob or JuJu but I'm hesitant.  I'd rather draft 2 guys to he honest so they develop with the young QB.

I agree about Thuney. I’d love to get him. But I think getting a WR in FA is a must. Several good guys should hit the market and be available via cheap trade.

But I’m not for bargain players. I get we have to fill out the roster... but we did that this last year and it hasn’t worked for us. Perriman, Desir, GVR, Jenkins, Gore, Doctson, Lewis, etc.