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Nextyearfordaboyz

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7 minutes ago, quiller said:

I was not and still am hesitant about Robinson. I think he has the most to prove and it’s highly subjective to put him as a starter in 2021.  I saw/see  just as much talent upside on Awuzi and Lewis. 

Well, yeah. Awuzie and Lewis were good prospects. But after this year, you either have to pay them money or replace them. I'm excited to see how Reggie develops over the next year. Lots of potential.

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50 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

I saw this, fascinating.

I'm a little bit confused by the grading system, and I wonder if anyone here understands how those grades work. I don't think 1.20 means "1st round grade, 20th best in that round".

Jeff Cavanaugh said, "on their scale I’d have had Gallimore as a 1.31 or so", and certainly Cavanaugh didn't have Gallimore as a first round grade.

So I think the # that comes after the decimal is the round. Meaning maybe the Cowboys viewed Gallimore as a 2nd round pick, while Cavanaugh had him as a 3rd..

Does anyone know how this works better?

Doesn't Dallas use a traditional big board (vertical) and then they use a position/position value board (horizontal) ? 

According to the one tweet Gallimore and Diggs were 20th and 21st overall on the Dallas board. I find that hard to believe. They got some otherworldly value for NG if true. 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, WizardHawk said:

Doesn't Dallas use a traditional big board (vertical) and then they use a position/position value board (horizontal) ? 

According to the one tweet Gallimore and Diggs were 20th and 21st overall on the Dallas board. I find that hard to believe. They got some otherworldly value for NG if true. 

 

 

Well, then what does the number before the decimal mean? rabblerousr's answer doesn't explain that.

That said, I do 100% believe that Diggs was one of the top-25 players on their board. So if Gallimore was ranked higher, then yeah, the value was amazing. Which explains why they were only on the clock for about 5 seconds. My original post said "top-40, but perhaps even higher". I was a little bit low, but I'm not dumbfounded to hear they ranked him that highly.

My followup question for Will McClay would be, how did you just sit and wait for a player rated that highly to fall? I wonder if they had a couple of guys really high on their board (Baun?) deep into the 3rd round, so they felt like they could be patient.

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Here are my post draft thoughts:

 

1.  No excuses.  Granted we have a new coaching staff and there will be some schematic changes in philosophy both offensively and defensively.  But the truth is that we have a solid 2 year window where we should be very, very good and DEEP.  I don't want to hear about refs screwing us or injuries, etc.  I don't want to hear any excuses.  It's time.

2.  We have the cap space to go ALL IN.  To me, signing Griffen or Clowney on a 1 year deal to add another pass rusher makes too much sense to not make it happen.  The only down side is that the we would not be able to roll over that extra cap space to next year.  Still, putting together a dominant defense is worth the risk of 2021 cap space if we really want to make a SB run this year. 

3.  Dak lovers or haters will get their answer this year.  Dak bet on himself the last 2 offseasons.  Will that bet pay off?  If he can't lead us to the NFC championship game (at a minimum), he's not worth the money he's asking for.     

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4 minutes ago, The_Slamman said:

Here are my post draft thoughts:

 

1.  No excuses.  Granted we have a new coaching staff and there will be some schematic changes in philosophy both offensively and defensively.  But the truth is that we have a solid 2 year window where we should be very, very good and DEEP.  I don't want to hear about refs screwing us or injuries, etc.  I don't want to hear any excuses.  It's time.

2.  We have the cap space to go ALL IN.  To me, signing Griffen or Clowney on a 1 year deal to add another pass rusher makes too much sense to not make it happen.  The only down side is that the we would not be able to roll over that extra cap space to next year.  Still, putting together a dominant defense is worth the risk of 2021 cap space if we really want to make a SB run this year. 

3.  Dak lovers or haters will get their answer this year.  Dak bet on himself the last 2 offseasons.  Will that bet pay off?  If he can't lead us to the NFC championship game (at a minimum), he's not worth the money he's asking for.     

Agreed on all counts.

I would be interested to see an update from a resident cap expert regarding #2. How much cap space do we realistically have this and next year?

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18 hours ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

He’s started every game in the first 4 years of his career and is about to be the highest paid player in NFL history. He just had a season where he threw for 4,900 yards, and 30 TDs to just 11 INT. And they literally just gave him the “franchise” tag.

If you can’t be sure that Dak Prescott qualifies as a franchise quarterback, what in life could you be sure of?

So Kirk Cousins is a franchise qb as well as they gave him the franchise tag as well. You don’t need to show me the stats im well aware. I would rank Dak 8-12 range as qbs in the nfl. Is that a franchise qb? Not for me it isn’t. I’m not a Dak hater he’s been good not great. He still has accuracy issues. Please don’t give stats as dink and dunks/screens anyone can complete. 

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2 minutes ago, cromagnum said:

So Kirk Cousins is a franchise qb as well as they gave him the franchise tag as well. You don’t need to show me the stats im well aware. I would rank Dak 8-12 range as qbs in the nfl. Is that a franchise qb? Not for me it isn’t. I’m not a Dak hater he’s been good not great. He still has accuracy issues. Please don’t give stats as dink and dunks/screens anyone can complete. 

What on earth is the definition of a franchise quarterback, if not "a quarterback who you build your franchise around"?

But by almost any reasonable definition (statistics, success, money), Dak fits the criteria. Your definition would have to be something insanely narrow, like "Without a doubt, a top-5 QB in the NFL" for him not to be included. And even then, there's a fair argument to be made. 

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1 minute ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

What on earth is the definition of a franchise quarterback, if not "a quarterback who you build your franchise around"?

But by almost any reasonable definition (statistics, success, money), Dak fits the criteria. Your definition would have to be something insanely narrow, like "Without a doubt, a top-5 QB in the NFL" for him not to be included. And even then, there's a fair argument to be made. 

Would you say Kirk cousins is a franchise qb then? By your definition he is as he’s been franchised paid big money and put up really good stats. I don’t think Cousins is a franchise qb and neither is Dak in my opinion. Let’s see if Dak can beat the good teams this year. He has all the weapons good online and a great running back. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

Agreed on all counts.

I would be interested to see an update from a resident cap expert regarding #2. How much cap space do we realistically have this and next year?

I don't profess to be an expert, only a nerd. However:

https://overthecap.com/calculator/dallas-cowboys/

$10M right now, $38M next year, per OTC. Essentially nothing with our draft picks unsigned and Dak without a contract for 2021. A second tag for Dak would cost roughly $37M and virtually bankrupt us, especially without much to roll over. SECOND HOWEVER:

Travis Frederick's retirement hasn't processed yet, as we plan to make him a post-June 1 cut. This will push us to $16.5M in 2020 and $43M in 2021. Assuming Griffen will take a one-year deal at this point in the $7-8M range with an additional $2-3M in incentives, this is essentially a one-for-one swap. And as much as we all enjoyed Frederick, I think that's an exchange you make and feel very good about given the overall state of the roster. Starting three guys in their 30's on the DL could be an issue, however.

To add to this, our '21 FA list isn't nearly as comprehensive as '20, outside of Dak. Crawford, Lee, Clinton-Dix, Looney, and our 2017 DB class headline the group, and most of those guys either have drafted successors or, in the case of Crawford and Lee, are just guys who you need to move on from if they won't take extremely team-friendly deals (vet minimum range IMO).

And if we really need it (say we want Clowney over Griffen), we can save $8M restructuring Martin, roll a couple mil of that over to offset the $2M increase in '21, and still be able to move on in '22 if we absolutely have to for as much as it cost to let go of Frederick (everyone besides Zeke can be dumped this year, including Amari). And this all assumes we're nowhere close with Dak. Sign him this summer and his '20 and '21 cap hits will both be lower than currently accounted for at the expense of locking him in through '23.

Jason Fitzgerald of OTC did a first round recap podcast last week and ended spending over half an hour on Dallas' cap situation (starting around 28:30). He thinks we've done a very nice job of team-building outside of the Zeke deal and the Dak negotiations, and that Dallas has a Top 3 roster in the NFC even without Jones, Quinn and Frederick. We shall see.

Edited by matt79511

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1 hour ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

What on earth is the definition of a franchise quarterback, if not "a quarterback who you build your franchise around"?

But by almost any reasonable definition (statistics, success, money), Dak fits the criteria. Your definition would have to be something insanely narrow, like "Without a doubt, a top-5 QB in the NFL" for him not to be included. And even then, there's a fair argument to be made. 

I think their 2 distinctive things.

I believe Dak is a franchise QB and someone you can build around.

I just dont believe Dak is worth a certain percentage of our cap I.e. $35 million a year.

I think QBs that are getting paid that much money should be able to put their team on their back and win with lesser talent. Dak has not been able to do that consistently.

Russell Wilson is worth that kind of money, Dak is not on that level yet.

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1 hour ago, matt79511 said:

I don't profess to be an expert, only a nerd. However:

https://overthecap.com/calculator/dallas-cowboys/

$10M right now, $38M next year, per OTC. Essentially nothing with our draft picks unsigned and Dak without a contract for 2021. A second tag for Dak would cost roughly $37M and virtually bankrupt us, especially without much to roll over. SECOND HOWEVER:

Travis Frederick's retirement hasn't processed yet, as we plan to make him a post-June 1 cut. This will push us to $16.5M in 2020 and $43M in 2021. Assuming Griffen will take a one-year deal at this point in the $7-8M range with an additional $2-3M in incentives, this is essentially a one-for-one swap. And as much as we all enjoyed Frederick, I think that's an exchange you make and feel very good about given the overall state of the roster. Starting three guys in their 30's on the DL could be an issue, however.

To add to this, our '21 FA list isn't nearly as comprehensive as '20, outside of Dak. Crawford, Lee, Clinton-Dix, Looney, and our 2017 DB class headline the group, and most of those guys either have drafted successors or, in the case of Crawford and Lee, are just guys who you need to move on from if they won't take extremely team-friendly deals (vet minimum range IMO).

And if we really need it (say we want Clowney over Griffen), we can save $8M restructuring Martin, roll a couple mil of that over to offset the $2M increase in '21, and still be able to move on in '22 if we absolutely have to for as much as it cost to let go of Frederick (everyone besides Zeke can be dumped this year, including Amari). And this all assumes we're nowhere close with Dak. Sign him this summer and his '20 and '21 cap hits will both be lower than currently accounted for at the expense of locking him in through '23.

Jason Fitzgerald of OTC did a first round recap podcast last week and ended spending over half an hour on Dallas' cap situation (starting around 28:30). He thinks we've done a very nice job of team-building outside of the Zeke deal and the Dak negotiations, and that Dallas has a Top 3 roster in the NFC even without Jones, Quinn and Frederick. We shall see.

The Frederick money, cutting Crawford, and/or restructuring Lawrence and Martin would give us a ton of flexibility on this year's cap.  It would not be hard at all to give Griffen or Clowney a 1 year, 15M contract. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, The_Slamman said:

The Frederick money, cutting Crawford, and/or restructuring Lawrence and Martin would give us a ton of flexibility on this year's cap.  It would not be hard at all to give Griffen or Clowney a 1 year, 15M contract. 

I’ve given up on this one. Read that he and Dak share and agent the other day, so that’s why we’ve been treading lightly. Wouldn’t touch Lawrence’s deal either, I think the plan there has always been to move on after ‘21

But yeah if we really want to win the bidding war on either of those guys it won’t be hard

Edited by matt79511

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3 hours ago, cromagnum said:

Would you say Kirk cousins is a franchise qb then? By your definition he is as he’s been franchised paid big money and put up really good stats. I don’t think Cousins is a franchise qb and neither is Dak in my opinion. Let’s see if Dak can beat the good teams this year. He has all the weapons good online and a great running back. 

Kirk Cousins certainly qualified as a franchise quarterback previously. His time has probably passed as a guy a franchise will build around.

The only QB to win more games since Dak has come into the league is Tom Brady. If you were told that was going to be true about Joe Burrow 4 years from now, you would need to know absolutely nothing else to proclaim him a locked and loaded stud.

I’m not trying to get bogged down in semantics with you. If you need to be Tom Brady to fit your definition of franchise QB, then fine, I can agree Dak doesn’t fit.

But in the sense that the Cowboys found a guy in the 2016 draft that they’ve decided to build around, and certainly themselves would call a “franchise QB”, there is literally no debate to be had.

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

The only QB to win more games since Dak has come into the league is Tom Brady. If you were told that was going to be true about Joe Burrow 4 years from now, you would need to know absolutely nothing else to proclaim him a locked and loaded stud.

Wins? I believe you are in the wrong forum, sir. Here you go:

https://forums.footballsfuture.com/forum/53-baseball/

 

 

Additionally, even if wins were a stat that could be attributed to a single player. Borrow doing it in Cincinnati would be insurmountably more impressive than him coming in on a locked and loaded 2016 Cowboys roster that flexed maybe the greatest offensive line in the history of the sport. 

 

There are so so many other actually relevant stats you can use to argue Dak as a franchise QB. 

Edited by DaBoys

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1 minute ago, DaBoys said:

Wins? I believe you are in the wrong forum, sir. Here you go:

https://forums.footballsfuture.com/forum/53-baseball/

 

 

Additionally, even if wins were a stat that could be attributed to a single player. Borrow doing it in Cincinnati would be insurmountably !ore impressive than him coming in on a locked and loaded 2016 Cowboys roster that flexed maybe the greatest offensive line in the history of the sport. 

 

There are so so many other actually relevant stats you can use to argue Dak as a franchise QB. 

100%.

If were going to use "wins" as the measureable for Dak on him being a franchise QB.

Then I fully blame him 100% for us not making the playoffs last year. We controlled our own destiny and we lost in Philly against a team devastated with injuries.

Unfortunately it's not that easy. We have won games where Dak has played poorly. We have also lost games where Dak played well.

Dak is a franchise QB that we can build around, at the right cap hit. He is not on the same tier as the Elite QBs that win regardless of what is around them.

Too many times I have heard, Dak doesnt have enough weapons or our Oline played poorly. He has more at his disposal than Russell Wilson.

Put Wilson on this team, I would pretty much guarantee we are true contenders every year. 

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