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Here we go again... Lamar Jackson bad takes Pt 3

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At this point I think we just need to accept most people don't like our team and especially our quarterbacks haha...Joe was out there winning playoff games at an all-time level and he was essentially the average NFL fan's/analyst's punchline for a decade.

Oh well...it'll always be something. At least we can take solace in the fact that we have legitimately one of the best run franchises in all of sports and it looks like that will be the case for a very long time.

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It's not even worth arguing now. Before it was that he was a pure runner and can't throw the ball or be an effective QB in the NFL. 

He throws the most touchdowns, wins MVP UNANIMOUSLY might I add. Now the knock is that he can't win a playoff game. Meanwhile he lost to the chargers last year as a half year starter. He had a rough go and dealt with drops against the Titans while still putting up 550 yards. They'll tell you it was "in garbage time". 

Most of the hate towards Lamar comes from the fact most folks are jealous he's not on their team. Not to touch on race here but I will. A good amount of folks just don't like Lamar because he's a black QB and they're racist pigs. 

 

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Posted (edited)

People don't like things that are different. Lamar is succeeding playing his way - a style that they didn't think was possible in the NFL. And he made a lot of people who take themselves serious as talent evaluators - whether it's hobbyists on this website or professional NFL people - look dumb for being so sure he was going to fail. None of them really want to do any self-evaluation about what assumptions they made about Lamar, the quarterback position, or the way the game is changing that made their evaluations so far off base. On some level they still don't want to admit what Lamar did was real, so even after winning MVP they're barely adjusting their evaluation of him. You compare where lot of those haters thought Lamar was going to be at the end of the 2019 season - out of a job, embarrassed, an NFL backup at best if he was even allowed to continue playing QB - and where he ended up:  youngest MVP ever on a team that won 14 games to raise expectations so much so that a divisional round loss was a huge disappointment - and you sort of have to laugh at the idea that these people really want to gloat about him having a bad game against Tennessee. 

So the goalposts are always going to move with him and the same people who were sure it couldn't work at all on the NFL level will continue to concern troll around whatever it makes the most sense to nitpick on at a given moment. First it was just Miami, then it was gonna be over for him once Belichek provided the blueprint, then it was gonna be all over for him once defensive coordinators discovered what a QB spy was, then everyone overnight decided that Greg Roman deserves all of the credit, now it's that it's unsustainable and defenses will 'figure him out' next year but it doesn't matter anyways because he can't win in the playoffs. You can be sure even if we lift the Lombardi next year, the usual suspects will let you know he didn't do it the right way.  And I will continue to take the bait and yell back at them, because Lamar is our son now and I have no self control. 

 

Edited by BaltimoreTerp

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1 hour ago, baltimoreRebel said:

It's not even worth arguing now. Before it was that he was a pure runner and can't throw the ball or be an effective QB in the NFL. 

He throws the most touchdowns, wins MVP UNANIMOUSLY might I add. Now the knock is that he can't win a playoff game. Meanwhile he lost to the chargers last year as a half year starter. He had a rough go and dealt with drops against the Titans while still putting up 550 yards. They'll tell you it was "in garbage time". 

Most of the hate towards Lamar comes from the fact most folks are jealous he's not on their team. Not to touch on race here but I will. A good amount of folks just don't like Lamar because he's a black QB and they're racist pigs. 

 

I don't know if it has something to do with black/white/racism, but I firmly believe there is a lot of traditional thoughts about what a QB has to be (which is white, tall, stands in the pocket, looks like a Brad or Brett or Tom) and Lamar certainly does not fit that prototype.

Now, because he doesn't fit that prototype, and so many experts and fans wants to be right in their assessment, especially with the draft gaining more and more attention, the pre draft bias is something that goes against Lamar, because in most experts and fans opinion, he was not supposed to succeed, he was not supposed to have success and no way he was supposed to have it so early and the way he did last year.

I see the same thing that went on with Flacco, who suffered from the same type of bias. He was not supposed to be good, so many experts and fans had to figure out how to knock on him and take away the good stuff he did and make it "unsurstainable". Other QB's, lets take Kurt Cousins as an example, gets the benefit of doubt when it comes to his performance and lack of playoff success. "Oh, his oline is not good enough, he doesn't have enough weapons, the run game is bad, his defences had bad games, coaching was not great". 

I ask, how good is he actually, when all those things has to be in place? The same goes on with Darnold here. 

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9 minutes ago, Danand said:

I don't know if it has something to do with black/white/racism, but I firmly believe there is a lot of traditional thoughts about what a QB has to be (which is white, tall, stands in the pocket, looks like a Brad or Brett or Tom) and Lamar certainly does not fit that prototype.

Now, because he doesn't fit that prototype, and so many experts and fans wants to be right in their assessment, especially with the draft gaining more and more attention, the pre draft bias is something that goes against Lamar, because in most experts and fans opinion, he was not supposed to succeed, he was not supposed to have success and no way he was supposed to have it so early and the way he did last year.

I see the same thing that went on with Flacco, who suffered from the same type of bias. He was not supposed to be good, so many experts and fans had to figure out how to knock on him and take away the good stuff he did and make it "unsurstainable". Other QB's, lets take Kurt Cousins as an example, gets the benefit of doubt when it comes to his performance and lack of playoff success. "Oh, his oline is not good enough, he doesn't have enough weapons, the run game is bad, his defences had bad games, coaching was not great". 

I ask, how good is he actually, when all those things has to be in place? The same goes on with Darnold here. 

Yeah that’s my issue, is like I could understand Lamar not being #1 on the list for a multitude of reasons... kind of like what Foxworth is alluding to. I can understand those people who think Joe Burrow will be the greatest thing since sliced bread because he had arguably the greatest QB season in NCAA history and he has arguably the best skill positions for a #1 overall QB in NFL history; I mean AJ Green, Tyler Boyd, John Ross, Auden Tate, and Tee Higgins at WR plus at RB he’s got Joe Mixon, Rodney Anderson, and Giovanni Bernard... if he fails with that, he’d have to be one of the biggest busts in NFL Draft history IMO.

I could’ve understood him mentioning Kyler Murray as he is a more accurate and “natural” thrower of the football than Lamar and with Nuk, Fitz, Isabella, and Kirk... plus an Air RAID offense, he’s going to have a shot to put up some huge production numbers... plus he’s an athlete like Lamar and does a good job to protect himself from hits.

But that’s it. Those are the only two QBs with a “hypothetical argument” at this point. 

Sam Darnold hasn’t shown anything to this point to show he can be MORE successful as Lamar. He didn’t win ROTY awards, he didn’t have better efficiency stats, he hasn’t passed for more TDs, he hasn’t remained as durable, he’s still playing for an organization that isn’t nearly as consistent, and he’s now even further back as he has to makeup for the unanimous MVP and All Pro appearance by Lamar too.

He claims that Lamar can’t be higher because he takes too many hits and durability could eventually become a concern, yet he has Tua above Lamar... dude is a serious hit away from having to exit the league in a Dennis Pitta fashion plus was even injury prone with soft tissue injuries BEFORE all of that... and he’s someone you bank on above a player that has already won an MVP and hasn’t proven his offense can be stopped with any kind of consistency?

And make no mistake, I wouldn’t actually place Joe Burrow above Lamar either as the Bengals have not proven to be a reliable enough organization and I wasn’t necessarily made afraid by their drafting choices either, I’m simply saying... since he hasn’t played a down in the NFL... that does work to his benefit in these “hypothetical scenarios... as no one has a baseline they can provide for him at this level.”

 

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44 minutes ago, Danand said:

I don't know if it has something to do with black/white/racism, but I firmly believe there is a lot of traditional thoughts about what a QB has to be (which is white, tall, stands in the pocket, looks like a Brad or Brett or Tom) and Lamar certainly does not fit that prototype.

Now, because he doesn't fit that prototype, and so many experts and fans wants to be right in their assessment, especially with the draft gaining more and more attention, the pre draft bias is something that goes against Lamar, because in most experts and fans opinion, he was not supposed to succeed, he was not supposed to have success and no way he was supposed to have it so early and the way he did last year.

I see the same thing that went on with Flacco, who suffered from the same type of bias. He was not supposed to be good, so many experts and fans had to figure out how to knock on him and take away the good stuff he did and make it "unsurstainable". Other QB's, lets take Kurt Cousins as an example, gets the benefit of doubt when it comes to his performance and lack of playoff success. "Oh, his oline is not good enough, he doesn't have enough weapons, the run game is bad, his defences had bad games, coaching was not great". 

I ask, how good is he actually, when all those things has to be in place? The same goes on with Darnold here. 

Trust me, I've been involved in some wild debates on twitter.. Lol

As far as Darnold. I think he's a talented guy. I do think he's on a really bad team. He's not #1 on the list though. It's Lamar and it's not even close. 

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Posted (edited)

sorry but thats just the quintessential american media to me.

be controversial as possible, no matter if backed by fact. idgaf. LJ is the MVP and he'll be here for the long run. deal with it. if you don't like it, i'll take your chance at Mayfield being better +100 or whatever your stupid o/u lines are.

i mean end of the day the guy got what he wanted. your attention. stop being insecure believing in a Ravens QB. ;)

Edited by berlin calling

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3 hours ago, baltimoreRebel said:

Trust me, I've been involved in some wild debates on twitter.. Lol

As far as Darnold. I think he's a talented guy. I do think he's on a really bad team. He's not #1 on the list though. It's Lamar and it's not even close. 

Oh don’t get me wrong I think Denzel Mims has high level breakout potential. He’s one of my sleepers for OROY... my only hesitation is I look at that schedule for the Jets and I see; Patriots- Stephon Gilmore 2x, Bills- TreDavious White 2x (though they can just move him to the other side of the formation), and then those Miami trio of corners that they’ve added to that squad.

If he is able to produce to the degree that I think he’s capable, even if he’s force fed, it’ll still be an impressive feat for sure. That’s about as much of a murderers row as you’ll find for sure.

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How in the WOORRRLLDDDD do you already put Tua ahead of the freaking NFL MVP from last year? My goodness.

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I've been trying my best not to click on any of the articles about this or watch any of the videos, but wasn't the original thing just a ranking of QBs as prospects from the last 3 drafts?

Now Orlovsky would still be wrong because Darnold wasn't even the the best prospect in 2019, let alone a better prospect than Burrow, but its a little more understanding that someone wouldn't have ranked Lamar that high (which goes to the biases that BTerp, Dan and others were talking about above).

However, if its a list of which QB you would take now,  then its just a bad hot take that is indefensible

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What's really weird about the bias towards Lamar is how hard it is to pin down. Like I'm sure his ethnicity plays a part for some people, but that really seems to be a minuscule percentage of his true detractors motivations. Cause those same people will heap praise/hype upon other less proven/talented QBs of color. 

Lamar occupies a singular place in the world of criticism imo. 

What I can't stand the most are those who are secretly hoping he gets injured, just so their lazy "It can't be sustained" takes come true in some way or another. They're just F'n ghouls.

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3 hours ago, drd23 said:

I've been trying my best not to click on any of the articles about this or watch any of the videos, but wasn't the original thing just a ranking of QBs as prospects from the last 3 drafts?

Now Orlovsky would still be wrong because Darnold wasn't even the the best prospect in 2019, let alone a better prospect than Burrow, but its a little more understanding that someone wouldn't have ranked Lamar that high (which goes to the biases that BTerp, Dan and others were talking about above).

However, if its a list of which QB you would take now,  then its just a bad hot take that is indefensible

It’s basically a hypothetical of if you take any QB from the last three drafts and have them over the course of 10 years, who do you think ends up the most successful?

He says he has Lamar at 5th because of injury potential, but then has a walking injury in Tua listed area 4th. Then has Darnold who has missed more games due to injury than Lamar as well. So his stance makes no sense logically.

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