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beardown3231

Bears sign Trevor Davis and Ted Ginn

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Posted (edited)
On 4/30/2020 at 9:21 PM, MonserinNC said:

 

I really dont understand all the confusion of  this whole off season.

They keep 6 WR, stash the extra TE more than likely, Patterson actually is a pretty good tackler on ST too so keeping him as 6 is well worth it

WR1- A-Rob, WR2- Miller, WR3- Ridley, WR4-Patterson, WR5-Ginn, WR6-Mooney

Wims is back on the practice squad due to the size we have at TE, not much need for the huge WR type.

 

 

For some reason, I actually think Ginn will have a pretty big role in next years offense.

Edited by Flbrandonf123

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12 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

If last season is any indication - Nall was active in every game after Davis was cut.

Nall was active for 8 games but played only 8 offensive snaps (per PFR). He was strictly a ST player and break in case of emergency RB option who only played offense in week 17 when the meaningful part of the season was over. I’d say the likelihood he’s considered anything more than that type of RB after 2 seasons with Nagy now is pretty close to zero. 

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2 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

Nall was active for 8 games but played only 8 offensive snaps (per PFR). He was strictly a ST player and break in case of emergency RB option who only played offense in week 17 when the meaningful part of the season was over. I’d say the likelihood he’s considered anything more than that type of RB after 2 seasons with Nagy now is pretty close to zero. 

Agreed, but the point I was making is that they’ve never carried an extra WR with the idea that Patterson can handle spot duty as a RB.

So unless Mooney is good enough to beat out Ginn, Ridley, and Wims, it seems unlikely he’ll be active on game day. In case people forgot, Ridley was inactive for most of last season and he had way more experience and pedigree.

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5 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

Agreed, but the point I was making is that they’ve never carried an extra WR with the idea that Patterson can handle spot duty as a RB.

So unless Mooney is good enough to beat out Ginn, Ridley, and Wims, it seems unlikely he’ll be active on game day. In case people forgot, Ridley was inactive for most of last season and he had way more experience and pedigree.

I assume that ARob, Miller and Ginn are WR1-3. Patterson is gonna be active to be ST but probably not play much if any WR. He isn’t any good at it. I personally think Wims is gonna be on the outside come week 1 unless there are injuries. From there, with a gun to my head asked which player is more likely to add value on Sunday as WR4 I don’t know that I can say it’s Ridley.

Ridley doesn’t play ST (Mooney can return kicks). Ridley doesn’t have any single unique skill (Mooney has elite speed). Ridley doesn’t give you the explosive play potential Mooney does, and his size advantage in the red zone is already something we will have in surplus on game day with ARob, Graham, Kmet and Harris. If we’re talking about someone who’s going to probably play 10ish snaps I want the guy active who’s more likely to do something big with that. To me that’s probably Mooney over Ridley. 

Of course, none of this happens in a vacuum. Weekly matchups will matter. Health will matter. Hell, weather may factor in too.

My question about Ridley is, what’s his upside? What’s a realistic upside player comp for a non-fast, slightly over average height but not big WR? He’s not particularly explosive. He’s not agile. I think one of the biggest problems he has is that the things he does well (win with size and route running) are things that aren’t really a style contrast for Allen Robinson, which makes him a pretty good backup but a pretty limited complementary player. 

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1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said:

I assume that ARob, Miller and Ginn are WR1-3. Patterson is gonna be active to be ST but probably not play much if any WR. He isn’t any good at it. I personally think Wims is gonna be on the outside come week 1 unless there are injuries. From there, with a gun to my head asked which player is more likely to add value on Sunday as WR4 I don’t know that I can say it’s Ridley.

Ridley doesn’t play ST (Mooney can return kicks). Ridley doesn’t have any single unique skill (Mooney has elite speed). Ridley doesn’t give you the explosive play potential Mooney does, and his size advantage in the red zone is already something we will have in surplus on game day with ARob, Graham, Kmet and Harris. If we’re talking about someone who’s going to probably play 10ish snaps I want the guy active who’s more likely to do something big with that. To me that’s probably Mooney over Ridley. 

Of course, none of this happens in a vacuum. Weekly matchups will matter. Health will matter. Hell, weather may factor in too.

My question about Ridley is, what’s his upside? What’s a realistic upside player comp for a non-fast, slightly over average height but not big WR? He’s not particularly explosive. He’s not agile. I think one of the biggest problems he has is that the things he does well (win with size and route running) are things that aren’t really a style contrast for Allen Robinson, which makes him a pretty good backup but a pretty limited complementary player. 

1. Mooney has virtually no experience returning kicks. He returned 1 punt and 1 kickoff in his entire college career.

2. There are plenty of examples of WRs with non-elite measurables who make an impact. Davante Adams and Robert Woods are good examples.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, abstract_thought said:

1. Mooney has virtually no experience returning kicks. He returned 1 punt and 1 kickoff in his entire college career.

2. There are plenty of examples of WRs with non-elite measurables who make an impact. Davante Adams and Robert Woods are good examples.

Adams was freakishly athletic though. Look at the combine. His vertical was something like 39 compared to Ridley's 30 (IIRC). Adams had a slightly better 40, broad, etc. But that vertical shows on tape for Adams in the NFL. He's a shockingly good jump ball player for the Packers despite his size and he consistently leaps over DB's for contested catches. Ridley was, as @AZBearsFan, nothing except a possession guy at Georgia. What does he bring to the table now? He's a less athletic, less skilled Robinson. I'd absolutely love to see him prove me (us) wrong but the Bears need speed and Mooney & now Ginn bring that element.

Edited by beardown3231

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19 hours ago, abstract_thought said:
20 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

 

1. Mooney has virtually no experience returning kicks. He returned 1 punt and 1 kickoff in his entire college career.

Yeah my bad with that - remembered reading about him after the pick and someone (don’t remember who) saying he is a potential KR candidate because of the speed and misremembered it as though he had return experience. Did this to myself by looking at 100 WR prospects’ write ups over the past month. 🤦‍♂️

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19 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

2. There are plenty of examples of WRs with non-elite measurables who make an impact. Davante Adams and Robert Woods are good examples.

There definitely are examples, but I personally find it far more likely that Mooney becomes a skill set limited complementary receiver the likes of Johnny Knox (overrated in Chicago IMO but definitely an asset in the right role) than that Ridley becomes more than a top reserve possession receiver. His resume certainly isn’t that of the two guys you mentioned - Adams dominated at Fresno State for multiple years. Woods dominated at USC for multiple years. Ridley barely got on the field until his last year at Georgia because he couldn’t take reps away from JAG Javon Wims. I’m of the mindset that because of the lack of elite traits Ridley’s realistic peak is that of someone like Jason Avant - a nice player who can spot start but someone who’s best cast in a backup role.

Let’s not kid ourselves though - both players are relative longshots to have extended NFL careers in prominent roles. The far greatest likelihood is that the careers of Ridley and Mooney are more comparable to those of Marquess Wilson and JJ Nelson than those of Woods and Knox. 

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Yea I agree with that assessment. I think Mooney’s inability to return kicks will really limit his NFL career. Undersized guys typically make rosters for ST value.

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Bold prediction...we keep 7 WRs on the roster...

QB - 2

RB - 3

FB - 1

WR - 7

TE - 4

OL - 8

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8 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

Bold prediction...we keep 7 WRs on the roster...

QB - 2

RB - 3

FB - 1

WR - 7

TE - 4

OL - 8

Honestly it wouldn’t shock me in the slightest if we kept 7 WR, 5 TE or 9 OL. I’m assuming here you’re referring to Holtz or Nall as a FB? 

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2 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

Honestly it wouldn’t shock me in the slightest if we kept 7 WR, 5 TE or 9 OL. I’m assuming here you’re referring to Holtz or Nall as a FB? 

Yeah I would keep Holtz as a FB/H-Back...don't see Nall making the roster.

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Posted (edited)

Glass half full: Pace seems to have shifted to a flood the zone philosophy of talent acquisition. He recognizes analytical reality that more shots on target will give you better odds of a hit.

Glass half empty: He keeps missing and has to keep fixing his mistakes and is wasting resources to do so.

To be fair mid and late round picks have a low hit rate overall.

Also, don’t Skrine and Shelley and Vildor seem like same guy or at least same athlete just at different stages? And Ridley and Wims? And Gabriel, Ginn and Mooney?  And Fitts and Gipson?  

He has a type he is looking for I suppose, they just aren’t setting world on fire to date.  Even Prince and Johnson are kind of same athlete and play style.  Like he just wants to keep replacing the same player with the same player.  

He also thinks he can always plug a hole with a 1 year veteran contract.  Maybe he can.  

 

 

Edited by dll2000
Forgot Ginn

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16 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Glass half full: Pace seems to have shifted to a flood the zone philosophy of talent acquisition. He recognizes analytical reality that more shots on target will give you better odds of a hit.

Glass half empty: He keeps missing and has to keep fixing his mistakes and is wasting resources to do so.

To be fair mid and late round picks have a low hit rate overall.

Also, don’t Skrine and Shelley and Vildor seem like same guy or at least same athlete just at different stages? And Ridley and Wims? And Gabriel, Ginn and Mooney?  And Fitts and Gipson?  

He has a type he is looking for I suppose, they just aren’t setting world on fire to date.  Even Prince and Johnson are kind of same athlete and play style.  Like he just wants to keep replacing the same player with the same player.  

He also thinks he can always plug a hole with a 1 year veteran contract.  Maybe he can.  

 

 

Question then becomes do we need Skrine and Shelley and Vildor?  I guess if you expect Skrine to leave next year it makes kind of sense.  Also, is insurance on one or more of them being bad.

 Ginn replaces Gabriel and leaves next year.  Then presumably Mooney steps into that role or you find a different small speedy guy if he is bad.

What I don’t get is why a) he is happy with Massie and Leno (I’m not) and b) he doesn’t maintain a good pipeline to replace OTs?

 Bars is a good find, but still he was an UDFA and he may have just gotten lucky.  Kind of a shot in the dark.  Same with 7th rounders.  

 

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2 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Question then becomes do we need Skrine and Shelley and Vildor?  I guess if you expect Skrine to leave next year it makes kind of sense.  Also, is insurance on one or more of them being bad.

 Ginn replaces Gabriel and leaves next year.  Then presumably Mooney steps into that role or you find a different small speedy guy if he is bad.

What I don’t get is why a) he is happy with Massie and Leno (I’m not) and b) he doesn’t maintain a good pipeline to replace OTs?

 Bars is a good find, but still he was an UDFA and he may have just gotten lucky.  Kind of a shot in the dark.  Same with 7th rounders.  

 

I guess the hope is that Bars, Ifedi or Spriggs shows promise and you resign one or more of them.  Or you figure it out later because apparently OTs are easy to find. 

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