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Justin Fields Will Be Better Than Trevor Lawrence

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9 minutes ago, sp6488 said:

Arm strength was never the issue with Tebow. It was release time and accuracy. His NFL combine draft profile (as just one account of this):

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/tim--tebow?id=497135

That GIF doesn't prove anything re: his arm. It's clear that his mechanics broke down with the pressure. He's sliding flat-footed into that throw, not stepping into it.

Yeah it is pretty hard to find any gif of Tebow throwing a good pass, not a surprise.  Anyone that watched him knows he does not have some lazer arm but yes I agree his accuracy was pretty bad and had a very odd release as well.  Either way his arm is crap and he obviously was a run first QB and all of his game was dependent on him running to loosen up the defense then make open throws.  Lawrence is not that type of QB, if his legs broke now and he lost that fine athletic ability, he could still throw dimes from the pocket and fall back on his arm talent.  Something Tebow could absolutely not do.  

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

What?  Tebow had an awful throwing motion and had little chance at being a successful NFL QB.  What exactly is it about Trevor Lawrence's throwing motion that is so awful?  The fact he actually has a strong arm unlike Tim Tebow?  Sure he could improve some things, everyone does, but his motion is not bad just has to get a quicker release at times.  

 

ArtisticSinfulAustraliankestrel-size_res

 

source.gif

 

Lawrence can spin in and has a cannon arm, Tebow absolutely did not and never had that type of arm talent.  

 

 

That's a pretty meh deep throw in the Lawrence gif.

Id also say that the Tebow throw is exactly the kind of throw Lawrence should have made. Same pocket time. Different kind of throws. The Lawrence throw just hangs and it's almost overthrown to a wide open target. 

Tebow may have thought the receiver would run a come back route but didn't. 

Edited by sshle_

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1 hour ago, BleedTheClock said:

The system, lack of size, questionable arm talent. That OSU system is so damn easy to dominate in. He doesn’t do well under pressure or hanging tight in a crowded pocket. 
 

I see him listed at 6’4, but that seems way off to me watching him. Either that, or OSU has the largest offense of all-time. 

To me you described Lawrence.  

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57 minutes ago, sshle_ said:

That's a pretty meh deep throw in the Lawrence gif.

Id also say that the Tebow throw is exactly the kind of throw Lawrence should have made. Same pocket time. Different kind of throws. The Lawrence throw just hangs and it's almost overthrown to a wide open target. 

Tebow may have thought the receiver would run a come back route but didn't. 

You want to hitch your wagon to a QB that is one of the biggest failures in the NFL at the QB position and never even threw for 3000 yards total in his entire career.  Pretty sure Lawrence could do that in his 1st season in the league.  But no Tebow has a great arm, a gif is one thing, real game film is another and absolutely nothing about Tim Tebow says he can throw the ball, he was a failure because his arms sucked and is a proven failure at this point.  

 

Back to the topic, Justin Fields progression this year will be very interesting.  Lucky for him it is a weak QB class and he is easily the 2nd QB in the class.  Lawrence got a lot of hate last year and will be interesting how he bounces back from that, especially after such an awful championship game he played, see how he can bounce back from that.  

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3 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

You want to hitch your wagon to a QB that is one of the biggest failures in the NFL at the QB position and never even threw for 3000 yards total in his entire career.  Pretty sure Lawrence could do that in his 1st season in the league.  But no Tebow has a great arm, a gif is one thing, real game film is another and absolutely nothing about Tim Tebow says he can throw the ball, he was a failure because his arms sucked and is a proven failure at this point.  

 

Back to the topic, Justin Fields progression this year will be very interesting.  Lucky for him it is a weak QB class and he is easily the 2nd QB in the class.  Lawrence got a lot of hate last year and will be interesting how he bounces back from that, especially after such an awful championship game he played, see how he can bounce back from that.  

Lawrence was also terrible against OSU. Fields put the Buckeyes in winning possession with less than 2 mins left in the game. If his receiver didn't fall, the Buckeyes would have been in the National title game. 

I want to see how Lawrence would beat a 2 deep safety defence with NFL LBers covering the middle of the field. I dont see Lawrence having success vs a Cover 3 

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15 minutes ago, sshle_ said:

Lawrence was also terrible against OSU. Fields put the Buckeyes in winning possession with less than 2 mins left in the game. If his receiver didn't fall, the Buckeyes would have been in the National title game. 

I want to see how Lawrence would beat a 2 deep safety defence with NFL LBers covering the middle of the field. I dont see Lawrence having success vs a Cover 3 

How convenient, do not bring up what Lawrence did to a far superior defense as a true FR vs Alabama 2018 in the title game.  By the way Fields threw the ball 13 more times than Lawrence that game last year and was up against a much worse defense in Clemson.  Clemson lost a ton off the previous defensive team but Ohio State was an amazing defense last year with top flight players at every level.  Lawrence still had a great game and took them apart on the ground obviously, and that was against a defense with three 1st round picks on it from this draft, two in the top 3 of course.  

 

Will be curious how Fields does next year if there even is a season.  Because they will actually lose a ton of receiving talent, usually are 5-7 WRs deep and it is quality depth the past two seasons.  This up coming year they got Olave and Wilson but not much else for returning WRs, sure some will come along but they have been staked the past two seasons with these guys.

 

2019
Olave
Hill
Victor
Wilson
Mack
 

2018
Campbell
Hill
McLaurin
Dixon
Victor
Mack
Olave

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40 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Clemson lost a ton off the previous defensive team but Ohio State was an amazing defense last year with top flight players at every level.  Lawrence still had a great game and took them apart on the ground obviously, and that was against a defense with three 1st round picks on it from this draft, two in the top 3 of course.  

Not to mention that all three of those 1st round defenders were players Lawrence had to deal with directly: two corners and a pass rusher.

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This is literally the worst argument I’ve seen on FF since LT is overrated because he might get injured. The mental gymnastics that are being done to lead to this conclusion make me feel like posting the Billy Madison Game Show gif. 

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I'll believe it when I see it.  Bottom line.

I've been wrong about prospects before and I'm sure I will again.  

But yeah, we will see in 4-5 years from now.

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6 hours ago, Ozzy said:

What?  Tebow had an awful throwing motion and had little chance at being a successful NFL QB.  What exactly is it about Trevor Lawrence's throwing motion that is so awful?  The fact he actually has a strong arm unlike Tim Tebow?  Sure he could improve some things, everyone does, but his motion is not bad just has to get a quicker release at times.  

 

ArtisticSinfulAustraliankestrel-size_res

 

source.gif

 

Lawrence can spin in and has a cannon arm, Tebow absolutely did not and never had that type of arm talent.  

 

 

Why did you pick a gif of a Lawrence throw where a wide open WR had to slow down and catch the ball 9 feet in the air?

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Posted (edited)

My comparison to Trevor Lawrence is Rory McIlroy. You have to follow golf closely to understand that, but it fits. McIlroy has the most gorgeous driver swing and tempo and ball flight of all time. When course conditions favor the driver and McIlroy is clicking, he can look absolutely dominant. It led to 4 majors early in his career and projections that he might reach Tiger Woods or even Jack Nicklaus. 

But once that driver is not dictating, McIroy can look incredibly ordinary. Follow him on the course and it's astonishing how many weaknesses he has and how many stupid mistakes he makes.

That Alabama game shoved Trevor Lawrence to sharply inflated status because the driver was allowed to dictate. All game long. And especially those deep sideline passes that the OP spotlighted. Ross and Higgins were making circus catches sometimes a yard outside the boundary. Those plays hardly translate game after game yet somehow every fan assigned it as Trevor Lawrence's forever normalcy.

In the recent championship game against LSU the final 20 minutes or so could not have been more boring. It was exactly like the familiar sight of Rory McIlroy missing one green and putt after another. The deep sideline stuff wasn't working yet Lawrence forced it continually. One hopeless 25 yard line drive after another. I was literally clicking the channel to true crime programming, only to return just in time to see another Lawrence errant throw.

He was barely 50% completions in the two playoff games, and for a pedestrian 7 yards per attempt. IMO, one of the absolute crimes of recent college football was Clemson's late rally to defeat Ohio State. That Buckeye defense versus Burrow would have been fascinating. Instead you had an overmatched young Clemson defense and an overconfident quarterback. Lawrence seemingly had no clue what he was facing in LSU and Burrow. That game mandated seizing control of every opportunity and building a huge lead, then hoping to hang on for dear life. Instead Lawrence wasted several early possessions in favorable field position while Burrow was backed up. How long was that going to last? I didn't see any sense of urgency from Trevor Lawrence at all. It was like he fully bought into his own press clippings and somehow assumed the driver would rescue everything and it would merely be another second half stroll.

I prefer Lawrence over Fields. I should have opened with that. Ohio State quarterbacks have it incredibly easy, as BleedTheClock pointed out. All the underneath crossers opening up downfield daggers. Very clever designs. JT Barrett was inept. It should be impossible to average below 7 YPA in an Urban Meyer offense. Yet somehow Barrett managed it...twice. Haskins does not have enough athletic ability to be an ideal Buckeye quarterback in this era. Fields is a step up. He is indeed like a shorter dumpy butt version of Cam Newton but without as much swagger. Perhaps not as much clutch. That was an incredibly idiotic forced interception. I believe it was only second down. Plenty of time on the clock.

The problem with Lawrence is that his 15 yard throws are identical to his 25 yard throws. Same string. It's not 100 mph happy like Herbert or Eason but Lawrence doesn't have anything close to the touch or variety of a Joe Burrow. That's why the rest of his game often fails if those deep daggers are taken away. Lawrence would actually be better off if his arm strength were more like Peyton Manning. He had the same initial trajectory as Lawrence but the ball would drop in mid flight, to the point the 15 yarders and 25 yarders had ideal settlement. Lawrence too often is dependent on a winged receiver making a circus grab. 

The Ohio State game was actually a lot more pathetic than it looked. Lawrence had nothing once Higgins was struggling, so he resorted to running the ball. That's not going to translate to the NFL. Plus he has the leggy frame and javelin thrower form. Big target area. I'll be surprised if he avoids injury much longer.

I would draft Lawrence first. I learned a long time ago that even if I have questions about an elite prospect, the guy will succeed if he has been a lifelong prodigy as opposed to a late bloomer. Lawrence certainly was a prodigy. I just don't see the entirety of his game as awesome. Lawrence is much more accurately evaluated if the Alabama game is ignored. However, the driver is a wonderful tool to have. McIlroy isn't close to projections from 10 years ago but he was PGA Player of the Year in 2019. The driver allows Lawrence to look very ordinary for long stretches -- like the North Carolina game last season -- and then change course immediately with one huge play. 

 

 

 

Edited by Awsi Dooger

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6 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

Why did you pick a gif of a Lawrence throw where a wide open WR had to slow down and catch the ball 9 feet in the air?

The release and throwing motion which was originally the critic, and since when is that catch difficult?  A receiver is not allowed to go up into the air in football to make a catch?  When was that made a rule?  

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Man if his floor is McNabb, he'll reach his ceiling because there's no chance his WRs are worse than what Donovan had to deal with

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On 5/1/2020 at 6:33 PM, Ozzy said:

What?  Tebow had an awful throwing motion and had little chance at being a successful NFL QB.  What exactly is it about Trevor Lawrence's throwing motion that is so awful?  The fact he actually has a strong arm unlike Tim Tebow?  Sure he could improve some things, everyone does, but his motion is not bad just has to get a quicker release at times.  

 

ArtisticSinfulAustraliankestrel-size_res

 

source.gif

 

Lawrence can spin in and has a cannon arm, Tebow absolutely did not and never had that type of arm talent.  

 

 

Sorry I forgot to add sarcasm. My post was obviously making fun of the original poster and making  Lawrence seem like Tebow by mimicking Tebow’s report lol. 

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