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Charles Harris Traded to Falcons


soflbillsfan

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3 hours ago, soflbillsfan said:

Since 2013 only 1 player has been signed to a 2nd contract on the Dolphins that was drafted by the team in the 1st round. Devante Parker

Just shows what a poor drafting team MIA has been

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27 minutes ago, Cutler06 said:

Just shows what a poor drafting team MIA has been

Since 13': 2 busts. 2 guys flipped for firsts and more. 1 guy way overpaid in FA. 

Miami's had only 4 busts in the 1st round since 04'. 

Edited by Tetsujin
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This guy is a huge bust. I trust Flores understands D-line talent. The writing was on the wall. They were going to cut him so I'm glad they got something out of it. It's not bad for ATL either because maybe a change of scenery will do him well.

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44 minutes ago, Tetsujin said:

Since 13': 2 busts. 2 guys flipped for firsts and more. 1 guy way overpaid in FA. 

Miami's had only 4 busts in the 1st round since 04'. 

MIA has had THREE winning seasons since 2004....enough said !!! Bad management

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25 minutes ago, Cutler06 said:

MIA has had THREE winning seasons since 2004....enough said !!! Bad management

No argument there.  Fins haven't been run very well for awhile now.  I finally have a small amount of hope with the pick of Tua, but that optimism is very guarded at this point.  But the Fins have actually drafted fine; especially of late as Tetsujin mentioned.  

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It's not so much the Dolphins drafting poorly since a lot of their guys have played well and get huge contracts with other teams (Clay, Vernon, Landry, Tunsil, Miller, ect.). Although I'm not saying they draft great either. The problem besides not having a franchise QB since Marino is that they have failed to build the trenches. They'll draft a tackle and then ignore the guards in the draft. So it's always incoherent line with a tackle spot or center spot that's good but the rest of the line is full of bad undrafted rookies or mediocre vets filling in. Same with the D-line. They'll be good at D-tackle, but then ignore the the rest of the line. This is the first draft they actually committed to building the lines for the majority of the draft.

Edited by Lilseb93
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59 minutes ago, hrubes20 said:

No argument there.  Fins haven't been run very well for awhile now.  I finally have a small amount of hope with the pick of Tua, but that optimism is very guarded at this point.  But the Fins have actually drafted fine; especially of late as Tetsujin mentioned.  

So, trading a 2017 1st for a 7th rounder is good drafting ???   ¬¬

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What I dont get is how Grier has survived this long he has been a college scout since 2002 and moved up to director of scouts the same year as Ross bought the team in 08, then he becomes GM in 2016. I dont care what people can say or think but if you are moving up in that area and have been gm for now 4 years with little to show for it your not doing your job. Yes Tannenbaum was President but he had to have listened to the people telling him about talent. The issue is that they manage to over spend in FA trying to fix the holes they fail miserably in the draft and then when one does succeed they dont plan on paying him the money to stick around. They could have easily paid Landry, Tunsil, Clay, and Miller at the time but they elected to pay guys like Mike Wallace, Suh, Wheeler, Ellerbe, etc I know some dont lineup in the timeline but just using them as examples of how poorly they were mishandled. They go through these bloated contracts cut or move them grab new pieces by overspending and do the cycle all over again.  This is a mismanaged team, while I enjoy it cause I am a bills fan, I still see it first hand as they are my local team on tv. The hiring of tannebaum I never understood as you saw first hand how he mismanaged the jets completely and had put them in a massive hole that they barely made it out of but still thought it was good idea to bring him in? Thats like asking Madoff to handle your finances after the fact.

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For the Falcons this is a no-brainer. They spent their 7th rounder on a punter this year. That should tell you how they view the 7ths. They should also have an extra 5th and 2 extra 6ths as comp picks next year for Beasley, Campbell and Schweitzer. So overall, this really isn't a big deal. Dimitroff getting a head start on getting rid of his extra picks for 2021.

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50 minutes ago, scar988 said:

For the Falcons this is a no-brainer. They spent their 7th rounder on a punter this year. That should tell you how they view the 7ths. They should also have an extra 5th and 2 extra 6ths as comp picks next year for Beasley, Campbell and Schweitzer. So overall, this really isn't a big deal. Dimitroff getting a head start on getting rid of his extra picks for 2021.

For Atlanta its low risk high reward, taking a flyer on a guy for camp if he pans out thats good for them. Very rare that a 7th rd hangs on to a team so its worth the risk.

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1 hour ago, Cutler06 said:

So, trading a 2017 1st for a 7th rounder is good drafting ???   ¬¬

Sometimes a player busts. Charles Harris was thought to be a 1st round pick by many "experts". 

An adequate% of Miami's picks over the past few years have turned into respectable players.

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5 hours ago, RuskieTitan said:

Didn't he test poorly for being an edge rusher? Think he was a surprise first round pick, most folks expected him to bust. Miami did Miami things though.

Absolutely. The Dolphins repeated the same mistake they made with Dion Jordan, who was another edge rusher reject based on all the tests that project so well to that position. The top guys on the draft forum of the Dolphins site Finheaven were in absolute horrors over the Harris pick, especially with T.J Watt just sitting there. He was the exact opposite of Harris. All of the analytics screamed that Watt had ideal athletic traits.

Taco Charlton was also projected to bust, although not nearly to the certainty of Charles Harris. I'll post those summaries from SackSEER below.

I am happy the Dolphins didn't allow Harris to make it to camp. It would have been a waste of time. He was borderline for a 2019 caliber Dolphins roster. Now that it's a step upward he doesn't belong. Basically the only thing he can so is a moderate speed spin move that fools nobody and is hilarious when he attempts it again and again, as the tackle mostly laughs at him while waiting for the spin to finish. Just yesterday on Finheaven I posted that Jason Strowbridge, the 5th round pick out of North Carolina, has plenty of flaws and is not anything special, but at least he's better than Charles Harris. 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2017/sackseer-2017

 

BUST ALERT

Charles Harris, Missouri

SackSEER Projection: 14.8 Sacks Through Year 5
SackSEER Rating: 17.5%

Every year, SackSEER breaks from conventional wisdom on at least one highly-rated edge rusher, and this year that player is definitely Charles Harris. From a SackSEER perspective, it is hard to see what would justify Harris as a first- or second-round pick, as most analysts project. Harris was not unusually productive, nor was there any spike in production near the end of his college career. Harris had nine sacks in 12 games during his junior year. Those are certainly not horrible numbers, but they are not significantly better than numbers posted by Tyus Bowser, Takkarist McKinley, or Jordan Willis.

Harris is undersized at 253 pounds, but he had a combine more consistent with a 280-pound run-stuffer. Harris was below average in every drill that matters to SackSEER, including a 4.82-second 40-yard dash and a 7.47-second 3-cone time. Why is an undersized edge rusher with vanilla college production and poor workout numbers considered a potential first-round pick? One answer is that he has a good reputation for athleticism despite his poor combine performance. The anecdotal evidence of what a great difference between "perceived" and "measured" athleticism means is mixed. Players such as Carlos Dunlap and Jason Pierre-Paul were lauded as athletic "freaks" who put up mostly average to below-average workout numbers, but nonetheless became strong players. On the other hand, Quinton Coples and Da'Quan Bowers, two players who had reputations as "freakish" athletes, posted poor workout numbers and ultimately had little impact on the NFL level.

 

Taco Charlton, Michigan

SackSEER Projection: 20.8 Sacks Through Year 5
SackSEER Rating: 47.3%

Taco Charlton is widely recognized as a "one-hit-wonder" who was dominant for the Michigan Wolverines in his senior season, but could barely crack the lineup during the first three seasons of his college career. Scouts are likely intrigued by the prospect of combining Charlton's ideal size (6-foot-6, 273 pounds) with the pass-rushing production he displayed as a senior.

SackSEER is highly skeptical of players who are one-hit wonders, especially those who break out during their senior seasons. College football players are more experienced and developed as seniors than at any point in their careers, and are often lined up against less experienced and developed sophomores and juniors. This advantage is completely reversed when those senior players are drafted and become NFL rookies. Indeed, history suggests that many of the players who dramatically overperform as seniors may have simply had a lucky season or are naturally inconsistent -- neither of which bodes well for Charlton's prospects.

Charlton's case is eerily similar to 2003 Bears first-round pick Michael Haynes, who was an even more extreme example of a late bloomer. Haynes had only four sacks as a junior player, but recorded an amazing 15 sacks as a senior. Haynes tipped the scales at 281 pounds, teasing scouts with his potential to combine great pass-rushing with ideal run-stopping size. However, Haynes also fared poorly in pre-draft workouts. Haynes ran the 40-yard dash in 4.87 seconds, recorded a below-average 30.5-inch vertical leap, and broad-jumped only 9 feet, 1 inch. Given Haynes' pedestrian first three seasons, and a combine performance that corroborated the less impressive section of his career, scouts should have realized that Haynes was simply not a first-round talent.

Similarly, Charlton ran the 40-yard dash in 4.92 seconds, even slower than Haynes. Charlton performed better than Haynes on the vertical leap and the broad jump, but he was still below average on both for a drafted edge rusher, let alone a possible first-round pick. To top it off, Charlton recorded only two passes defensed while at Michigan. Considering all of the evidence, Charlton provides several pieces of evidence suggesting that he may be a bust (his freshman season, his sophomore season, his junior season, his poor combine performance, and his poor passes defensed rate) and only one piece of evidence that he may be a success (a strong breakout senior season).

Other prospects have certainly overcome these challenges before. Tamba Hali in particular had a late breakout season and below-average workout numbers, yet became a star. However, for every Hali there are three players like Michael Haynes, making Charlton an extremely risky play in the first round.

Edited by Awsi Dooger
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14 hours ago, Awsi Dooger said:

Just yesterday on Finheaven I posted that Jason Strowbridge, the 5th round pick out of North Carolina, has plenty of flaws and is not anything special, but at least he's better than Charles Harris. 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2017/sackseer-2017

That was a good read, cheers. 

Sackseer had Strowbridge projected as a 3rd-rd pick, Miami got him in the 5th. 

Sackseer had Weaver projected for the 2nd rd, Miami also got him in the 5th. 

Hoping Sackseer correctly estimated their value and they both prove bargains.

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