Jaguars decline 5th year option for RB Leonard Fournette

[LinderFournette]

7 hours ago, Tugboat said:

It wasn't up to the team to keep him.  He forced his way out, same as others.

 

We don't get enough out of draft picks as it is, to even really care that much about "5th year options" and future contracts at this point.

if coughlin didnt coughlin things ramsey might not have wanted out.  same thing with Ngakoue. 

fowler eh he wasnt all that great. he was solid but i wasnt a fan then when we picked him and still not a fan now. 

[JaguarCrazy2832]

Are we even sure it was all TC? Seriously after that whole childish Twitter nonsense with Yannick and Khan i wonder if it was a group effort of stupidity 

[Tugboat]

On 06/05/2020 at 7:33 PM, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

Are we even sure it was all TC? Seriously after that whole childish Twitter nonsense with Yannick and Khan i wonder if it was a group effort of stupidity 

Yeah.  A lot of people are keen to just throw Coughlin under the bus and call it "fixed".  As is typically done with scapegoats leaving in disgrace.  Obviously Coughlin was a major part of it...but there's clearly still other stuff going on.  It hasn't healed all wounds and patched everything up here.

[.Buzz]

6 hours ago, Tugboat said:

Yeah.  A lot of people are keen to just throw Coughlin under the bus and call it "fixed".  As is typically done with scapegoats leaving in disgrace.  Obviously Coughlin was a major part of it...but there's clearly still other stuff going on.  It hasn't healed all wounds and patched everything up here.

It also only happened several months ago. Think it's a bit early to act like it's going to continue/we do have a problem when barely any time has passed outside of a few months in an off-season.

Yannick should've gotten paid last year and had to play for pennies. If we fired everyone it may have fixed it because it would've been a fresh start for him (like he wants), but it's all stemming from Coughlins lack of negotiation and trashing on his game and all the same people that were under Coughlin (who may not have shared the same views or could have, we don't know) are still here outside of a couple people 

[Jags]

On 5/4/2020 at 11:53 PM, Warhorse said:

Colts passed on Hooker's 5th year option. You guys got more out of LF, than we did out of Malik Hooker. 

I was a huge fan of Hooker during the draft year. I know he got the injury his rookie year, but how has he been for the Colts overall? 

 

[Warhorse]

15 hours ago, Jags said:

I was a huge fan of Hooker during the draft year. I know he got the injury his rookie year, but how has he been for the Colts overall? 

 

He has been average at times, good at others, but sometimes gets beat. I think scheme fit was a bit off in his long term selection. 

[Drachma]

Picking Fournette made sense at the time. It had Coughlin's fingerprints all over it. When you go back and consider that after Maurice Jones-Drew had left us for Oakland that we had all but been depleted at the RB position. 

Yeldon never lived up to his 2nd RD status. And I don't think we had a single RB crack 1,000 yards on the ground again until Fournette was brought in. That's the problem with our team though. And that trend happened in the off season this year. They started signing and drafting players that are stout against the run like Schobert, Hamilton and Quarterman on defense. 

Could end up being the right move when you factor in that Houston gave up Hopkins for Johnson, the Colts stole Taylor in RD2 and Henry pretty much owns us. Six games right there where if you don't have your run defense shored up? You'll be paying for it for sure. 

We seem to be stuck in the 1970's and 1980's of football philosophy on offense. Ground and pound football is a thing of the past. It's only popular when a team like San Francisco runs it all over Green Bay in an NFC Championship game or Tennessee does it all year with Henry and then you realize it's a QB coming back from behind like Mahomes that gets the job done at the end of the day. 

I think there's a good chance he ends up being traded mid season. Teams in the "hunt" might want to invest a 2nd or 3rd RD pick in him. I am honestly surprised that they haven't eyed Devonta Freeman at RB yet. I know he's been nicked up over the last few years but he's another 50/50 production type of player in the run and pass at this position like Chris Thompson that SHOULD fit Gruden's offensive system to a tee. 

It'll be interesting to see though. Armstead didn't see much action last year. Thompson doesn't come off as an every down back that can carry an offense. Hopefully they learn how to truly operate within the West Coast Offense under Gruden and start opening up the running game by actually throwing earlier and often in contests. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Drachma

[JaguarCrazy2832]

21 minutes ago, Drachma said:

Picking Fournette made sense at the time. It had Coughlin's fingerprints all over it. When you go back and consider that after Maurice Jones-Drew had left us for Oakland that we had all but been depleted at the RB position. 

Yeldon never lived up to his 2nd RD status. And I don't think we had a single RB crack 1,000 yards on the ground again until Fournette was brought in. That's the problem with our team though. And that trend happened in the off season this year. They started signing and drafting players that are stout against the run like Schobert, Hamilton and Quarterman on defense. 

Could end up being the right move when you factor in that Houston gave up Hopkins for Johnson, the Colts stole Taylor in RD2 and Henry pretty much owns us. Six games right there where if you don't have your run defense shored up? You'll be paying for it for sure. 

We seem to be stuck in the 1970's and 1980's of football philosophy on offense. Ground and pound football is a thing of the past. It's only popular when a team like San Francisco runs it all over Green Bay in an NFC Championship game or Tennessee does it all year with Henry and then you realize it's a QB coming back from behind like Mahomes that gets the job done at the end of the day. 

I think there's a good chance he ends up being traded mid season. Teams in the "hunt" might want to invest a 2nd or 3rd RD pick in him. I am honestly surprised that they haven't eyed Devonta Freeman at RB yet. I know he's been nicked up over the last few years but he's another 50/50 production type of player in the run and pass at this position like Chris Thompson that SHOULD fit Gruden's offensive system to a tee. 

It'll be interesting to see though. Armstead didn't see much action last year. Thompson doesn't come off as an every down back that can carry an offense. Hopefully they learn how to truly operate within the West Coast Offense under Gruden and start opening up the running game by actually throwing earlier and often in contests. 

I’d be shocked if a team in the hunt gave us a 4th for LF let alone a 2nd or 3rd

[Drachma]

6 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

I’d be shocked if a team in the hunt gave us a 4th for LF let alone a 2nd or 3rd

Not a huge fan of David Caldwell but he has a weird knack of flipping players for value picks that most of the time shouldn't happen. Him and Ngakoue both will probably be gone before this year's trade deadline. 

He could add some languages to the trade that turn into conditional values. "In the event you win X amount of games or earn a play off spot this 4th becomes a 3rd RD pick, etc". 

[JaguarCrazy2832]

1 minute ago, Drachma said:

Not a huge fan of David Caldwell but he has a weird knack of flipping players for value picks that most of the time shouldn't happen. Him and Ngakoue both will probably be gone before this year's trade deadline. 

He could add some languages to the trade that turn into conditional values. "In the event you win X amount of games or earn a play off spot this 4th becomes a 3rd RD pick, etc". 

RBs are so horrible devalued unless you’re BOB

And injury-prone RB with some attitude problems in the last year of his rookie contract isn’t worth much. Other than Ramsey when did we get above market value for someone?

[Tugboat]

2 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

RBs are so horrible devalued unless you’re BOB

And injury-prone RB with some attitude problems in the last year of his rookie contract isn’t worth much. Other than Ramsey when did we get above market value for someone?

This is true.

The one thing going for Fournette...is that RBs may be "devalued" in today's NFL...but draft pedigree is often still overvalued.  And Fournette has that draft pedigree and name recognition that sometimes appears to end up inflating a players "value" a bit.

[JaguarCrazy2832]

2 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

This is true.

The one thing going for Fournette...is that RBs may be "devalued" in today's NFL...but draft pedigree is often still overvalued.  And Fournette has that draft pedigree and name recognition that sometimes appears to end up inflating a players "value" a bit.

You’re not wrong but that usually holds more weight on the FA market when teams are fine paying $ and no picks. I feel like rarely do teams spend a 2nd/3rd round pick on an underperforming former Top-5 pick in a contract year

[Drachma]

5 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

RBs are so horrible devalued unless you’re BOB

And injury-prone RB with some attitude problems in the last year of his rookie contract isn’t worth much. Other than Ramsey when did we get above market value for someone?

Could make the same argument for Ramsey quitting on us with a feigned back injury and his contract up after this year with the Rams. Caldwell was able to get a pick for Foles this off season while guys like Newton and Dalton were outright released. 

He was able to get some good value for Fowler Jr. Decent value for Bouye. Campbell's the only trade where you were probably left scratching your head where they probably should have and could have received more. 

I think he'll hold onto his cards with Fournette and Ngakoue and when a team  in the hunt loses a vital piece at these positions he's going to get a good trade offer. May be conditional. May not be. But he's been able to get compensation for players that he probably shouldn't have. 

Fournette was on his best behavior last year. He's now handling this situation like an adult instead of an over grown manchild. That will help his value. 

[JaguarCrazy2832]

1 minute ago, Drachma said:

Could make the same argument for Ramsey quitting on us with a feigned back injury and his contract up after this year with the Rams. Caldwell was able to get a pick for Foles this off season while guys like Newton and Dalton were outright released. 

He was able to get some good value for Fowler Jr. Decent value for Bouye. Campbell's the only trade where you were probably left scratching your head where they probably should have and could have received more. 

I think he'll hold onto his cards with Fournette and Ngakoue and when a team  in the hunt loses a vital piece at these positions he's going to get a good trade offer. May be conditional. May not be. But he's been able to get compensation for players that he probably shouldn't have. 

Fournette was on his best behavior last year. He's now handling this situation like an adult instead of an over grown manchild. That will help his value. 

Was Fowler good value? I mean didnt we basically get the same pick we would’ve gotten as a comp pick just a year earlier?

Also decent value isnt what I’m looking for, I’m looking for overvalued trades because thats what a 2nd for LF is

Edited May 12, 2020 by JaguarCrazy2832

[Drachma]

1 minute ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

You’re not wrong but that usually holds more weight on the FA market when teams are fine paying $ and no picks. I feel like rarely do teams spend a 2nd/3rd round pick on an underperforming former Top-5 pick in a contract year

He's underperformed behind one of the worst offensive lines in football with one of the most inconsistent QB clubs since 2010. I think during his rookie year he faced more eight man front's than any other RB in the NFL and last year you could make a case that he was being overworked because there was virtually NOBODY spelling him outside of Minshew's jailbreaks downfield at times. 

In the right system? At the right time? He could be a problem to scheme against. If teams are willing to fork over 2nd and 3rd picks at the position anyway? For example, Swift, Taylor and Akers all going within that range this year? Why wouldn't a team in the hunt that's going to end up with a low 3rd RD pick anyway not chance it for Fournette?

Tampa Bay is the team to watch this year. Let's say Brady gets off to a slow start in Arians system and they clearly need to punch up the backfield? Fournette's an interesting prospect. Buffalo was in the mix as well. Josh Allen seems to lack the ability to get the Bills over the hump in the play-off's. Fournette in Buffalo in a division that no longer houses Tom Brady could be an interesting trading partner. 

Teams will get desparate. They always do. Especially teams in win now mode.